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-   -   Has anyone used Z-MAX in their rotory (https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/has-anyone-used-z-max-their-rotory-847556/)

saltydog 06-22-09 08:06 PM

Has anyone used Z-MAX in their rotory
 
Has anyone used Z-MAX in their rotory engine?
If so, did it help, or hurt anything...or was there no noticeable difference?
Mine is a "babied" rebuild with @68k on it...didn't know if it was worth it to try Z-MAX or not.

Hazard15301 06-22-09 08:21 PM

From what I've heard from other rotor heads, general consensus is to NOT use any engine additive in their engines. That's my personal preference too.

I personally don't believe in any of those fuel additives. In my experience, any power gained is negligible at best, or all in your head.

Evil Aviator 06-22-09 08:25 PM

Let's see what the US Federal Trade Commission says about it:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/zmax1.shtm

Originally Posted by FTC
FTC Sues Speedway Motorsports and Oil-Chem Subsidiary
Performance Claims For zMax Auto Additives Are Unsubstantiated, FTC Charges
The Federal Trade Commission has filed suit in U. S. District Court seeking to halt false and misleading advertising for zMax auto additives and has asked the court to order refunds to consumers who bought the products. The agency alleges that enhanced performance claims for the product are unsubstantiated, that tests cited to support performance claims actually demonstrated that motor oil treated with zMax produced more than twice as much bearing corrosion than motor oil alone, and that the three different products - an engine additive, a fuel line additive and a transmission additive - were all actually tinted mineral oil. zMax is manufactured by Oil-Chem, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Speedway Motorsports, Inc. Speedway, based in Concord, North Carolina, operates NASCAR race tracks in the South and in California, in addition to marketing the zMax products.

According to the FTC complaint, since at least May 1999, zMax ran infomercials touting its "Power System," a $39 package of three additives to be used in the engine, fuel line and transmission of automobiles. The infomercials feature testimonials from consumers and race car drivers making claims such as, "I was averaging about 22 miles to the gallon on the highway. I installed the zMax and so I jumped right up to about 28 miles per gallon;" and "zMax guarantees a minimum of 10 percent gas mileage increase." Other marketing and promotional pieces claim, "zMax with LinKite has the scientific, CRC L38 proof it takes your car to the MAX!" and "Why zMAX Works - Cuts carbon build-up on valve stems 66%; Lowers wear on valve stems 66%; Lowers wear on piston skirts 60%; Reduces blow-by leakage 17.7%; Increases combustion efficiency 9.25%; Lowers fuel consumption 8.5% - Results of an independent CRC L38 test."

According to the FTC, the CRC L38 test is a standard auto industry tool to measure the bearing corrosion protection properties of motor oils. In February/March 1997, an independent laboratory performed two CRC L38 tests of zMax for Speedway and Oil Chem. In those tests, motor oil treated with zMax produced more than twice as much bearing corrosion as motor oil alone. The complaint also states that the defendants fabricated one "report" from the two test reports, eliminating the bearing corrosion results and all other negative test results, and then used that report and the "official laboratory results" - similarly edited to remove detrimental data results - as sales tools in the infomercial and on the zMax Web site.

The FTC's complaint alleges that the defendants did not possess and rely on reasonable substantiation for the following claims in the infomercial, on the Web site and in brochures that zMax:

increases gas mileage;

increases gas mileage by a minimum of 10%

reduces engine wear;

reduces or eliminates engine wear at startup;

reduces engine corrosion;

extends engine life; and

reduces emissions.

The agency's complaint also alleges that the defendants falsely represent that the results of the CRC L38 test proved that zMax:

increases gas mileage;

reduces engine wear;

extends engine life;

lowers fuel consumption by 8.5%

lowers wear on valve stems by 66%

lowers wear on piston skirts by 60%; and

cuts carbon build-up on valve stems by 66%.

Finally, the FTC charges that in consumer testimonials and endorsements in their advertising, the defendants did not have substantiation for the representation that the endorsers' experiences were, "The actual and current opinions, findings, beliefs, and/or experiences of those consumers; and the typical or ordinary experience of members of the public who use the product."

The FTC is asking the court to bar the defendants from violating the FTC Act, which prohibits deceptive acts and to order consumer redress or require that they give up their ill-gotten gains.

This case is the latest in a series of FTC law-enforcement initiatives targeting unsubstantiated claims made by auto additive manufacturers. The FTC previously halted allegedly deceptive advertising by the marketers of Dura Lube, Motor Up, Prolong, Valvoline, Slick 50, and STP, other major brands of engine treatment products.

The Commission vote to file the complaint was 5-0. It was filed in U.S. District Court for the Middle District of North Carolina, in Greensboro, January 31, 2001.

NOTE: The Commission authorizes the filing of a complaint when it has "reason to believe" that the law has been or is being violated, and it appears to the Commission that a proceeding is in the public interest. The complaint is not a finding or ruling that the defendants actually have violated the law. The case will be decided by the court.

Copies of the complaint are available from the FTC's web site at http://www.ftc.gov and also from the FTC's Consumer Response Center, Room 130, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580. The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, or to get free information on any of 150 consumer topics, call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357). The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.

Executive Summary: Nearly all additives are bullshit.

If you want to keep your engine clean, use Castrol GTX engine oil, use distilled water rather than tap water in the coolant mix, use Top Tier gas, don't idle the engine for long periods of time, and keep up on your scheduled maintenance of the oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, and O2 sensor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tie...rgent_Gasoline

BTW, it is not good to baby a rotary engine. You need to accelerate past 3800 rpm on a regular basis in order to keep the secondary injectors from gunking up. The worst blown rotary engine I have ever seen was nearly completely destroyed due to the owner thinking that he was preserving the engine by driving the car lightly.

bikeboy23332 06-22-09 08:34 PM

more! i have wondered about this.

RRTEC 06-22-09 09:08 PM

Wow that was a lot of reading... mmmm lovin the snakeoil...

saltydog 06-22-09 10:23 PM

THANKS to all !!!! I was wondering about this product for the decreased engine wear, like on the apex seals...WONT be wasting money on it then...couldn't find anything on rotory tests on the different product web sites...

beefhole 06-22-09 10:27 PM

SEA FOAM or as some use... water!

BFGRX7 06-23-09 04:34 PM

Actually, I was recently told that using distilled water may not be good for our engines as the devoid of minerals distilled water would actively seek out and wick the typical minerals out of the irons. The mechanic (MazdaTrix) didn't really go in-depth as to HOW this happens, so I'm still taking this info with a grain of salt.

bikeboy23332 06-23-09 04:44 PM

is that sea foam stuff ever been used on rx7s? is it bad or good?

clokker 06-23-09 04:48 PM


Originally Posted by bikeboy23332 (Post 9310094)
is that sea foam stuff ever been used on rx7s? is it bad or good?

No, never.

The two billion results that a search for "Sea Foam" brings up are all talking about something else.

EvilWankel 06-23-09 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by clokker (Post 9310105)
No, never.

The two billion results that a search for "Sea Foam" brings up are all talking about something else.

uh, huh? Maybe I'm not picking up on the sarcasm...thought you actually said before you use them religously on your cars...maybe it was just piston cars...

RotaryRocket88 06-23-09 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by EvilWankel (Post 9310217)
uh, huh? Maybe I'm not picking up on the sarcasm...

Yeah, you're not picking it up, but it's there.

farberio 06-23-09 06:31 PM

^ Yeah its there. I actually tripped and fell over it.

Hazard15301 06-23-09 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by saltydog (Post 9308490)
THANKS to all !!!! I was wondering about this product for the decreased engine wear, like on the apex seals.

Premixing helps with this. The oil injectors tend to cause uneven wear on apex seals. Premix better lubricates the seals and helps them to wear evenly.

If you don't want to deal with the hassle of premixing there is a writeup on how to convert the mechanical OMP to use 2 cycle oil from an external tank.

AGreen 06-23-09 08:43 PM

I worked at a Dodge dealership for a while, and this particular one swore by zMax. Every used car that came in got "treated" by it. Yes, we called it snakeoil too. It claimed that it was a "microlubricant", and some bs about reducing bearing wear, blah blah blah, use a quart here, dump some in your oil, and a little in the tank.

I ended up with a spare bottle of that crap in my toolbox and decided to try it out on mine. Within a week, the engine blew an apex seal. Whether or not it was caused by zMax or not I'll never know, but I won't be risking that again, especially after seeing Evil's info!

I use water to get rid of my carbon woes, aside from all the redlining I do. The TII engine I just installed was obviously "babied" because it blew smoke for a full day after installing it. I watered the rotors down with a gallon of the finest tap water, took her for a test drive, and the smoke went away.

Evil Aviator 06-23-09 09:44 PM


Originally Posted by BFGRX7 (Post 9310058)
Actually, I was recently told that using distilled water may not be good for our engines as the devoid of minerals distilled water would actively seek out and wick the typical minerals out of the irons. The mechanic (MazdaTrix) didn't really go in-depth as to HOW this happens, so I'm still taking this info with a grain of salt.

He is confusing it with the myth that drinking distilled water is bad for you because it leaches minerals out of your body.
http://www.steamdistiller.com/distillerfaq.htm
"3. Does distilled water leach minerals from my body?
No, that is not an accurate statement. Distilled water is the purest form of water, the universal solvent. Pure water does absorb discarded minerals and with the assistance of the blood and lymph(mostly water), transports them to the kidneys for elimination. It is this kind of mineral elimination that is incorrectly referred to as 'leaching'. The expression that distilled water leaches minerals from the body is inaccurate. Distilled water does not leach out body minerals, it collects and removes minerals which have been rejected by the cells and tissues, which if not evacuated, can cause arterial obstruction, arthritic deposits and other potentially serious bodily damage."


Prestone uses demineralized water in their pre-packaged 50-50 mix:
http://www.prestone.com/products/antifreezeCoolant.php
"Prestone® 50/50 Ready-to-use Prediluted Extended Life
Antifreeze/ Coolant features a blend of 50% antifreeze/coolant for temperature and corrosion protection and 50% demineralized water for heat transfer protection."


Also, the Mazda FSM contains a Caution stating that only soft (demineralized) water is to be mixed with the coolant. See page 3-6 in the S4 manual or E-6 in the S5 manual

You can use tap water, but the more junk in the tap water the more junk will end up sticking to the inside of your engine and cooling system components over the years. If the tap water in your area is fairly pure, then it will work pretty much the same as distilled water.

JxT 06-23-09 10:00 PM

Hmm...I dunno about what that website says but I remember my teacher saying the reason it's bad to drink distilled water is because it takes electrolytes from your body along with causing random cramps and pains. I think she also said that drinking too much might cause organ failure (unsure, it was awhile ago). In any case it's okay to drink a little and short term.

EJayCe996 06-23-09 10:05 PM

Drinking too much of ANY kind of water will put your body into shock.

NCross 06-23-09 10:07 PM

Sea Foam and 2 stroke oil is all I ever put in my 7's. Everything else for the most part is garbage.

BFGRX7 06-24-09 12:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)
LOL! That's funny! I actually have and use that distiller! I'm just wondering what exactly is left in water after distillation that would cause some sort of chemical reaction. Yes, we can laugh and say "nothing" is left cause it's distilled, DUMMY! I just wonder if it's at the molecular level.

AGreen 06-24-09 11:10 AM

Tap water has what plants crave. It's got electrolytes. In a perfect world, distilled water has no electrolytes. If distilled water is 100% pure, it will not conduct. That's why it should be used for cooling systems, ie to prevent electrolysis.

Drinking distilled water has nothing to do with coolant. The reason you can't drink it is, once again, it has no electrolytes, so your body's cells can't regulate how much they absorb. Eventually, they'll absorb so much they pop, which can kill you.

Sucking water in the intake has nothing to do with either of those, which was what the whole water thing was all about anyways. Distilled or not, when you're just using it to steam carbon off engine internals it doesn't matter what kind of water you use, because even if there are any tiny traces of minerals, they're just going to get burned off anyways.

kborro01 06-24-09 12:11 PM

Is this sort of the same thing as water injection? I know AV8B harriers use a water injection system during hover take off and landing to cool the fool and creat more power.
How would you inject water into a rotory for the puropse of cleaning the engine?

AGreen 06-26-09 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by kborro01 (Post 9311922)
How would you inject water into a rotory for the puropse of cleaning the engine?

Disconnect a vacuum hose from your manifold that's not necessary for the engine to idle and dunk the open end in a bucket of water. Start car, hold at about 2500 rpm, shut engine off when bucket's empty. Reconnect hose, start car, blow smoke.

just startn 06-26-09 10:30 PM


Originally Posted by AGreen (Post 9318076)
Disconnect a vacuum hose from your manifold that's not necessary for the engine to idle and dunk the open end in a bucket of water. Start car, hold at about 2500 rpm, shut engine off when bucket's empty. Reconnect hose, start car, blow smoke.

lol that was funny to me for some reason

Rx7_Nut13B 10-02-09 11:42 AM

Back from the dead.

I have one thing to add to this, the only additive i use with rotary's is Lucas Oil Additive.
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...l%20Stabilizer


It has saved one of my motors when i blew a oil line, drove about 90 secs before i saw the oil pressure @ 0psi (Data log measurement)

I was scared that my motor was done, fixed the line, changed the oil and filter again, drove it another 10K before i blew the motor. When i was rebuilding the motor I bought new bearing before i saw the ones in the motor, they where still usable.

So that is why i use it in all of my vehicles, Rotary, Diesel, Boat, and Motorcycle

I also use it when i rebuild motors as a bearing lube.

just my 411


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