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A/F Gauge (not worth it?)
OK i've heard mixed feelings about A/F gauges, I'm about to install a SAFC and want to know if its a waste of money to get a regualre A/F gauge or if I should Save up for a wide band. Some people say a narrow band helps but not as well while others say its worthless. What does every1 think?
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The A/F gauge is good so that you know what is going on with the O2 sensor. If it starts freaking out, you have an idea of where to look.
They are good for monitoring trends, but are not very accurate or reliable for information really. I dont see much point in shelling out the cash for a wideband when you can take your car to a shop and use one to tune the car. If you want to monitor engine condition, and cash doesnt matter, I'd reccomend an EGT instead. |
Do the best you can with the money available.
When I install the (cheapo) downpipe, I will be watching the AFR gauge. |
Unless you are doing closed loop tunning a Narrow band A/F guage is a total waste of time and money! an egt guage is better spent! If you aren't going to be tunning for Closed loop then I would simply save up for a WB02.
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The narrow band O2 sensor is merely a guide. It might keep you out of trouble if you start going lean. It reacts fairly quickly, and I say its a good thing to have.
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People who say A/F gauges are useless are simply ignorant, because the thought they could be used for tuning, then found out they were very poor at that so they assume that's because they're crap. The reality is that A/F gauges are a useful diagnostic and monitoring tool that can indicate potential problems if you know what you're looking at. In regular driving you'll see patterns forming depending on load, revs, etc. If you see those patterns change (e.g. doesn't go into closed loop or doesn't go quite as rich under load as usual) then you know something is wrong.
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i just installed one in my car, it does help. sure its not absolutly needed but i like knowing if im gonna blow something up by being too lean. and of course it lets you know whats up with your o2 sensor. it was worth my 47.99!
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Originally posted by NZConvertible People who say A/F gauges are useless are simply ignorant, because the thought they could be used for tuning, then found out they were very poor at that so they assume that's because they're crap. The reality is that A/F gauges are a useful diagnostic and monitoring tool that can indicate potential problems if you know what you're looking at. In regular driving you'll see patterns forming depending on load, revs, etc. If you see those patterns change (e.g. doesn't go into closed loop or doesn't go quite as rich under load as usual) then you know something is wrong. |
Narrowband 02 Gauge: $30-$50
Wideband 02 Gauge + Sender: $330-$450 Dont think 1/4 covers it :-p I'd get an EGT gauge, but they are pricy! |
sorry... good Narrow band o2
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OK well i don't plan on using it to diagnose problem i just want it for some rough tuning of my safc before i can get to the dyno, will it allow me to at least smooth out the rich and lean spots?
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Originally posted by jreynish I would just like to note that I am not ignorant! I know that an EGT doesn't react as quickly, however it does tell you that things aren't right also! concidering that a Narrow band O2 costs 1/4 that of a WBO2 system that is way more accurate and reacts equally as quick! and they can be used everytime you drive assuming your follow instructions of proper use! If you won't ever need or want a WBO2 setup then yes get a A/F Narrow band guage. But most don't! |
oops...
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ok enough argueing i don't care if which of you think your right thats not what iwanna know can i rough tune with a narrow band?
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What sort of tuning are you doing? Are you leaning the mixtures for more power or are to going richer them because you think you're too lean? The difference between safe and borderline cannot be seen using a narrow-band sensor...
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I'm doing the a rough tunning basicly i want to know if i get the gauge and see that a betwwen 5000 and 7000 rpms i'm rich a bit i'll take it down a notch with the safc will that work?
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If you're planning on tuning with it, go with the wideband, you will need the accuracy, and for the money, the Greddy Wideband is probably the way to go if you're looking for something on the cheaper end.
Given a choice between a wideband and the EGT, I'd go with the wideband. Where an EGT will shine is tuning ignition timing or warning you if you have a dangerous condition. With the wideband you can montior your A/F ratio and keep it safe, then use your EGT to determine safe levels of ignition timing. Without the A/F it's difficult to know whether or not you need to add fuel or retard ignition timing. If you have ignition timing control, another smart investment would be a knock level guage (If you have a Power FC, this is one of the signals you can display. I had one on my 180SX, and I watched it like a hawk.), This is a much faster warning than EGT's that there's a knock spike on your timing map, and with the A/F you can determine if you need to bring down the timing or add fuel to bring it back to safe limits. With the knock level and the EGT you can pull timing out of that area of the map, then try again... if you still have a knock spike and the EGT's are kinda high, you can add fuel to see if you can bring it back down. My suggestion is that if you're planning on doing your own tuning, save up your money and invest in both the EGT and the wideband, it's very worthwhile and it could prevent an expensive whoops. :D Otherwise if you plan to "set and forget" spend the $50 on a few more dyno runs to fine tune your A/F to a safe level. |
If you're planning on tuning with it, go with the wideband, you will need the accuracy, and for the money, the Greddy Wideband is probably the way to go if you're looking for something on the cheaper end.
Given a choice between a wideband and the EGT, I'd go with the wideband. Where an EGT will shine is tuning ignition timing or warning you if you have a dangerous condition. With the wideband you can montior your A/F ratio and keep it safe, then use your EGT to determine safe levels of ignition timing. Without the A/F it's difficult to know whether or not you need to add fuel or retard ignition timing. If you have ignition timing control, another smart investment would be a knock level guage (If you have a Power FC, this is one of the signals you can display. I had one on my 180SX, and I watched it like a hawk.), This is a much faster warning than EGT's that there's a knock spike on your timing map, and with the A/F you can determine if you need to bring down the timing or add fuel to bring it back to safe limits. With the knock level and the EGT you can pull timing out of that area of the map, then try again... if you still have a knock spike and the EGT's are kinda high, you can add fuel to see if you can bring it back down. My suggestion is that if you're planning on doing your own tuning, save up your money and invest in both the EGT and the wideband, it's very worthwhile and it could prevent an expensive whoops. :D Otherwise if you plan to "set and forget" spend the $50 on a few more dyno runs to fine tune your A/F to a safe level. |
ok but if your saying that an egt is good for igniton timing then i don't need that with the safc as it can't adjust ignition curves right? or is there some other bennifit i would get out of it, i'm on a budget here
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I've had a wideband from http://wbo2.com/ TechEdge for about two plus years. It's not for the folk on a budget.
If your on a budget.......you don't need even a cheap narrow band 02 sensor. Use you digital mulitmeter tapped into the 02 output on the ECU. It's just (really more) accurate than those off the shelf items (name your favorite brand, I include it). Or better yet, if you want a light show, then make your own. Just go to AutoSpeed online and subscribe and there are/is at least one article on making your own light show. I just last week bought a Super AFC (APEXI) from RotaryPerformance in Dallas/Irving/Whatever/Garland??? and from my standpoint, I for the life of me don't see how anyone can tune using one of these if he does not have a wideband unless he goes to a shop/dyno/your choice, and do it there. Ain't no way I could do it with a narrow band and have any confidence that it was done even close to right. Oh, I also have a EGT. Not that costly if you buy one from PEGASUSAUTO.COM. Ran about sixty to seventy bucks. Hey! I'm on a budget. I'd druther use the wideband though. Personal pref or ignorance, your choice. |
$60-$70!! Does that include the sending unit? (Follows the link) . . . dead link ;_;
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Hmm ok well that won't work i can't afford that. So does any1 think that a narrow band would allow me to tune it at least a little better than stock? I am getting it tuned at a dyno but i'll have the SAFC for over a month before i get to the dyno
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I lied. It's about fifty eight for the gauge and another forty four for the probe/harness. And I keep forgetting to order the light for the gauge.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/036.pdf |
Awesome. I serously wouldnt mind setting up with that dual gauge system, one for each rotor :)
I think I'll wait till I have some money though :) |
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