Engine won't turn over, starter good
 

OK so my engine won't turn over. My starter is good, it works when we take it out of the car, but when its in the car it won't spin, every time we try it the engine fuse just blows. I KNOW for a fact there is no short that could cause it to blow. I can't turn the engine by hand. It started earlier today no problem but shut off and then blew the fuse next time we tried to start it.

some background, this a a turbo swap on a na car, today is the first time it started, its a jdm s4 TII motor. running on a power FC, my OMP is deleted but there is plenty of premix in the gas

I would be more worried about the motor not beaning able to be turned by hand.

A blown fuse is usually a short however much you know it can or cannot be, though I don't know what would happen if you try to start a car with a locked up engine though I doubt it would blow the fuse. Are you sure you hooked up the ground wire when you installed it in the car?

Yeah, i ran a brand new 4 gauge wire to the starter there is no way its shorting, I'm positive the ground is hooked up also. The engine turned over fine previously when i was having an issue with fuel the day before and it started twice maybe 10 minutes before this happened.

It blew that fuse twice also, once with the 80 we had in it and than again when we put a 120 in. and it blew instantly as soon as i tried to start it. I just assumed since a put a wire in that could handle more it was just giving it more power when it had trouble turning it over.

What could cause my engine to lock up like that?

Electricity does not really work that way, and by putting in a 120 you might have just destroyed a whole lot more. The 80A is supposed to blow to protect the electronics that cant handle anything more then 80A, by putting in that 120 you may have royally screwed yourself. It sounds to me like a battery short to blow that big of an fuse, double and triple check any connections directly off the battery.

Also, when I put a turbo trans in my N/A I had to extend the wire because it would short out on the starter but it sounds like you already replaced the wire.

The engine could lock up due to something falling in the engine, or a seal falling out, or maybe some carbon build up. Its probably rebuild time.

That would be a sad day, we've put a lot of time and effort in this swap. We are going to try a few more leads and let you guys know how it turns out.

Anymore advice is certainly welcome. :icon_tup:

If the Engine is Blowing fuses ,You DO NOT put in a Bigger fuse...You are just asking for a Fried harness,aren't you?..the Fuse blowing means SOMETHING IS WRONG...if the engine won't turn over by hand,then the starter would be under "stress" and suck amperage to Try and start the Engine,even though the engine won't turn..Therefore it WILL blow a fuse...TRY THIS,take the plugs out,put in some Automatic Transmission fluid in the Housings(via the spark plug holes.).see if you can Move the Front pulley back and Forth( with a breaker bar and a 19mm socket)..do this without exerting pressure on the Bar..(putting excess pressure on the Bar may hurt anything that is Still GOOD inside the Engine)...you may have to Do this Repeatedly,(say over the course of a day or two)..if it is Carbon locked,the ATF will Help to dissolve the Carbon,and Free the engine up..IF it is a busted seal though,the Engine will remain stuck and then you know that is Pretty well established that it is rebuild time.

Good advice, I'll definitely advise him to try that. He was going to try that with some MMO. Would ATF be a better choice?

The only reason we went with a bigger fuse is it was all we had and we knew that the new wire we ran to the starter could handle that amount of power.

Well i was going to try ATF today but its raining so i guess i'll do that tomorrow. meanwhile i welcome any more ideas or advice, thanks to anyone who has contributed so far

Its not the new wire you should be concerned about, its every other wire that can't handle that amperage.

We only put in the larger fuse because that was all we had available. I wanted to confirm what was happening before we removed the starter again. No need to fear the harness from burning, all starting power wires were of ample size to handle the load. Granted we could have potentially fried the starter, but that was discussed before hand and deemed not a big deal.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. And yes I do agree that if you don't know FOR SURE what you're about to do, a larger fuse is a HORRIBLE idea.

I really wanna see this car do work!

Most of those other wires can't handle 80 outright anyway, that's why they are fused lower. Perhaps I don't understand the setup of the FC underhood distro/fusebox, but it seemed to me that the only thing we really lost when that fuse blew was the main power wire to the starter. The solenoid still worked just fine. And all else seemed well.

Did anyone else notice this?
Last time I checked, the starter is the ground for the starter. It has one big wire connected directly to the positive terminal and one plug that tells the solenoid when to go. Are you sure you aren't shorting the starter itself? What did you ground and where?

There is a negative wire that connects on the back of the upper left nut and bolt. The one that connects trough the transmission and has the bracket.

To be honest i'm pretty positive its not the starter;
I couldn't turn the flywheel with a crowbar, so i'm going to wait until it stops raining and try the ATF

I just don't understand how it could start then lock up right afterward no more than 3 minutes later.

Probably Carbon lock. That or a seal could have busted loose.

About how much ATF should I use?

I can't help with a carbon locked engine (piece of junk if it is carbon locked), but I might have an explanation for the blowing ENGINE fuse. IF you answer the queston: did you use the stock non turbo EM harness on the engine or use a Turbo EM harness on the engine,and if you used a Turbo EM harness on the engine, did you make any wire adjustments in the orange connectors on the EM harness just inside the passengers foot well????

And/or what did you do for the two alternator wires???? The two wires going to the alt plug is what I mean.

I can't say for sure about the wiring. UCP did all of that on not only this car but my turbo 2 swap three weeks ago (mine is running great). But I know they used the turbo EM harness and did the same modifications for the alternator and orange harness plugs (FEM-01 AND FEM-02 if i remember correctly) as he did to my car. Ill let him answer the rest.

turn the engine by hand, clockwise

use can use 19mm socket at main pulley

if you can turn it, it's good. dont worry about ATF, if anything use engine oil, but im pretty sure it's fine.



then start worrying about starter issue.

do what HAILERS said.

receck aleternator connection, make sure alternator power post is NOT touching intercooler.

r u using NA alternator?r u using T2 or NA emmision harness?

give us more info about what model/year car and what parts were used in coversion.

I cannot attest to the parts used. Where any alternators came from, etc...

The wiring I did in the harness EM was according to the information on Hailers. That's what I used on the last swap too. The other wiring I did was for the PFC, Isam can tell you more than I on that. as I've only done that once.

The starter works perfectly, I've taken it out and connected it to just a battery. Negative one the mounting flange (as a ground) and positive to the power stud for the motor itself, then gave it a 12V signal for start condition by bridging to the solenoid terminal. The solenoid plunges and the motor turns the gear, no odd noises or anything, is sounds like a gigantic torquey electric drill. I am not worried about the starter. Perhaps that is my mistake, but if it walks like a duck, it's a duck.

The Main fuse blowing..... IMO.... is due to the current overload caused by the fact that the eccentric shaft (that's right, right? I want to say crank SOOOOO bad :/ ) ill not turn. You place a huge load on an electric motor it's going to draw more current to do it's designed job.

The fuse ONLY BLOWS the second we try to engage the starter. I do have a clamp an ammeter, we could test the amperage coming through the starter wire if someone REALLY wants to, but I can tell you hat it's going to do already.

Sorry if that sounds grumpy, I just woke up and I'll be honest I dreamt about this car running. It was glorious. :(

From what I see on the wiring: The Engine fuse gets fed from the ignition switch when you go to On or better. It gets fed from the black/white wire on the ignition switch. That wire can't be the problem though.

So from what I see, the ENGINE fuse feeds the following:

A: one of the two coils in the Circuit Opening Relay.

B: the coil of the Main Relay

C: the small plug on the alternator (the b/w wire of the two wires)

D: the A/T Lock-UP relay on a automatic car.

So A, B and C apply to you. Tell you what. Try this. Pull the plug off the Circuit Opening Relay and go to Start and see if the ENGINE fuse blows or not. The Circuit Opening Relay has two coils, one of which gets fed by the Start signal/circuit. Maybe something is crossed up there. Don't expect the engine to start or anything like that. Just look to see if the ENGINE fuse blows or not.

Say it does not blow. Try removing the small plug from the alternator and go to Start to see if the ENGINE fuse blows or not.

One of the two efforts above should tell you something, hopefully.

One other quick check might tell you something. Go to the boost sensor and pull its plug off. Check the BROWN/RED wire for voltage with the key ON. It should NOT be over 5vdc. If it reads batt voltage....not good. If it reads batt voltage, pull the ENGINE fuse and see if the batt voltage goes away. If it goes away, then one of the ORANGE plugs is not pinned right. Orange plugs as in X-15 (FEM-01 in some manuals).

Ok so i can't turn the motor over with a breaker bar, i didn't exert a lot of pressure because i felt that wouldn't be a good idea. But i put ATF into the block to see what happens overnight. Tomorrow we'll look through all that wiring issues since my wiring friend isn't here today.

Hopefully this breaks this stuff loose or i'll have to put the REW from my parts car in this thing :-/

Two other things that I forgot that should have been mentioned. The ENGINE fuse goes to the circuit opening relay to pull it in, but also feeds the fuel pump after the relay gets pulled in. It could be your fuel pump is pulling too much current. Prove it one way or the other. PUll the plug off the fuel pump and go to Start, and see if the fuse blows or not.

And make sure the fuse is a fifteen amp fuse and not a lower number.

Seems the motor is for sure seized. I guess i'll be pulling it out and putting an REW in it