Electric vs stock fan. Which is better?
O I am trying to decide to go to an electric fan or stock fan on my 88 rx7. Is there any noticeable difference between the two cooling wise?
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Originally Posted by alexran24
(Post 11677135)
O I am trying to decide to go to an electric fan or stock fan on my 88 rx7. Is there any noticeable difference between the two cooling wise?
Sufficient airflow is sufficient airflow, the radiator doesn't care how the air is provided. That said, I much prefer electric fans, for a variety of reasons. |
Originally Posted by clokker
(Post 11677205)
Too many variables to answer definitively, but in general, no. Sufficient airflow is sufficient airflow, the radiator doesn't care how the air is provided. That said, I much prefer electric fans, for a variety of reasons.
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I hate electric fans.
You lose the "tool tray" on the car.Otherwise known as the stock rad shroud. For this solution you get a Electric fan with shroud(like a Merc Villager fan),a new alternator and a corsport front rad panel. |
Originally Posted by misterstyx69
(Post 11677212)
I hate electric fans. You lose the "tool tray" on the car.Otherwise known as the stock rad shroud. For this solution you get a Electric fan with shroud(like a Merc Villager fan),a new alternator and a corsport front rad panel.
So I assume it doesn't matter what fan you put in there? I already have a new alternator on there with a double pulley too. |
It's really personal preference. The biggest pro for an electric fan is a cleaner looking engine bay/easier access to the engine.
If going electric I believe it's said you want something that flows atleast 2800 cfm or better. Do some research on it. |
If you go electric,then try to simplify things and get a fan setup that will pretty well fit the Rad and you do not have to make any shrouding for it.
I opted for the Merc Villager fan and you just cut a small piece and Bob is your uncle.Installed with some L brackets. A Fiero Fan(V6) is good and also the Taurus Efan or Lincoln I have heard is good too. BUT there is nothing wrong with a Good Operational Stock Fan,so really it is your decision on what you do. The Efan cleans up the engine bay a bit,that is about it.Makes things a little more visible. |
I don't mind my stock fan, the only reason I would go electric is to free up some space.
I never priced a stock fan clutch, but maybe I would consider switching if it was a very pricey item |
Originally Posted by GrossPolluter
(Post 11677262)
I don't mind my stock fan, the only reason I would go electric is to free up some space.
Switching to an efan left a giant gaping hole in front of my engine, space that I've filled with, ahh...well, nothing. So far unmentioned, the best and most useful attribute of the electric fan is the ability to accurately control its operation. The stock fan is a dumb, brute force solution to providing airflow, it has only the most general idea of what the coolant is actually doing. A well set up fan control circuit will respond much more quickly and effectively to temp variation than the thermoclutch ever could. After five years of efan operation I'm also prepared to say that you DO get a net horsepower gain using an efan...the whole "Increased draw on the alternator offsets the mechanical drag of the thermofan" argument is bullshit because it ignores the fact that the efan is hardly ever on. There is always parasitic drag from the thermoclutch, it never disengages and free spins. The efan is only on for brief periods under normal circumstances. Last summer I took a road trip and during the entire 3300 miles the fan came on twice, for a total of less than 15 minutes. During the winter, as long as ambient is under @50°, even city driving doesn't trigger the fan. I check mine periodically just to make sure it still works because I don't think it has triggered on in months. The FC is my only car and a daily driver, BTW. I would ignore the "extra room" and "extra power" arguments as mere distractions, the real reason to use an efan is the more precise control it gives you over the cooling system, a critical component in the rotary package. It is worth noting that even Aaron Cake, author of the cited "Myth" article, uses electric fans on his projects. So there.
Originally Posted by GrossPolluter
(Post 11677262)
I never priced a stock fan clutch, but maybe I would consider switching if it was a very pricey item
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stock fan for stock car cant be beat, for modified car it cant be beat
control what? the thermostat controls the temperature the fan just keeps it in check a properly operating stock set up is very hard to beat and keeps the car running very cool even on hot days , in traffic with the AC going I rarely seen 190 degrees |
And how many people are spending $250 to ensure they have " a properly operating stock fan"?
How many 25 year old thermoclutches still work at spec? What do you mean "control what"? You control the amount of time the fan is on, obviously. |
Originally Posted by clokker
(Post 11677377)
And how many people are spending $250 to ensure they have " a properly operating stock fan"?
How many 25 year old thermoclutches still work at spec? What do you mean "control what"? You control the amount of time the fan is on, obviously. I dont see the need to control how long the fan is on, all the FCs I had with stock fans kept the car right in the 180-190 degree range keeping it simple is really nice sometimes |
As owner of the nicest FC I know of your opinion must be respected, so I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one.
I see no advantage to the stock fan other than it's already there. |
if not operating- yes make a change, if its working keep it simple and dont touch it
sound good? |
Originally Posted by Rob XX 7
(Post 11677398)
if not operating- yes make a change, if its working keep it simple and dont touch it
sound good? To be fair though, that doesn't seem to be the approach you took with your car. |
Originally Posted by clokker
(Post 11677367)
After five years of efan operation I'm also prepared to say that you DO get a net horsepower gain using an efan...the whole "Increased draw on the alternator offsets the mechanical drag of the thermofan" argument is bullshit because it ignores the fact that the efan is hardly ever on.
There is always parasitic drag from the thermoclutch, it never disengages and free spins. The efan is only on for brief periods under normal circumstances. The clutch fan is only creating any significant load when the temperature dictates, just like the e-fan. Last summer I took a road trip and during the entire 3300 miles the fan came on twice, for a total of less than 15 minutes. During the winter, as long as ambient is under @50°, even city driving doesn't trigger the fan. I check mine periodically just to make sure it still works because I don't think it has triggered on in months. The FC is my only car and a daily driver, BTW. It is worth noting that even Aaron Cake, author of the cited "Myth" article, uses electric fans on his projects. So there. Also note that I tried for a year to use a SPAL FAN-PWM to bring the gradual clutch-fan behavior to my on-off e-fan. Ultimately I gave up because the SPAL FAN-PWM sucks rancid donkey balls. But on my Cosmo, I used two smaller e-fans and have them programmed in stages to provide more linear temperature control vs. on-off. E-fans were used on the Cosmo due to space concerns and because A/C is installed. |
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 11677484)
If your clutch fan can't be stopped by a single finger (wear thick gloves if testing this!) while the engine is running, the clutch is sticking. In which case yes, it is wasting a little power.
The clutch fan is only creating any significant load when the temperature dictates, just like the e-fan.
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 11677484)
Weird. Every RX-7 car I've ever tuned will constantly toggle the e-fan during city and low speed driving. It's all datalogged.
My LOW speed (this is an 18" Lincoln fan, BTW) doesn't toggle on till 195° and I can sit for quite a while before hitting that point.
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 11677484)
Also note that I tried for a year to use a SPAL FAN-PWM to bring the gradual clutch-fan behavior to my on-off e-fan. Ultimately I gave up because the SPAL FAN-PWM sucks rancid donkey balls. But on my Cosmo, I used two smaller e-fans and have them programmed in stages to provide more linear temperature control vs. on-off. E-fans were used on the Cosmo due to space concerns and because A/C is installed.
Although my setup is hooked to the ECU and activates the BAC when the fan comes on, I usually can't tell if the fan is on till I see the VDO water temp gauge plummet. There isn't much noise or noticeable effect when it triggers. I don't believe it has EVER gotten hot enough to switch to HIGH, which in my case is 210°. |
Originally Posted by clokker
(Post 11677516)
I reject the "power consumption" argument as specious anyway, hardly significant either way except to note that the thermoclutch ALWAYS loads the engine because it never decouples.
Though this is a wide assed guess, an idling air pump probably takes more engine power to turn than an idling clutch fan. The way I see it, either fan will do the job just fine. Except that it's so easy for people to screw up an e-fan install that most are best served just keeping the stock clutch fan. I have had arguments with people installing e-fans because they say the fans I am recommending are "huge" and "bigger then ma' V8!". Then they come to me with overheating cars and I say "Yep, told you". Although I have an optimal setup for cooling- no AC and a NA engine- I'd credit my car's behavior more directly to the trigger temps of the fan. My LOW speed (this is an 18" Lincoln fan, BTW) doesn't toggle on till 195° and I can sit for quite a while before hitting that point. I never found more sophisticated control to be necessary. |
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
(Post 11677829)
and that's a much higher temp than Mazda runs the engine at.
The FD for instance, doesn't trigger low speed fannage till 221°. |
Everyone should remove the stock fan because it sucks. If you add an electric fan, you gain like 20HP. Also, ditch the thermowax because it adds heat to the intake, robbing you of at least 15HP! All stock equipment on this car is bad!
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I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.
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Sadly, there are people who wouldn't quite understand that level of sarcasm and hyperbole.
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Originally Posted by clokker
(Post 11677367)
Free up space for what?
So far unmentioned, the best and most useful attribute of the electric fan is the ability to accurately control its operation. The stock fan is a dumb, brute force solution to providing airflow, it has only the most general idea of what the coolant is actually doing. A well set up fan control circuit will respond much more quickly and effectively to temp variation than the thermoclutch ever could. Thank you sir for the clarity and reason enough to purchase one. I always thought to myself, the stock one does JUST fine, can't argue that. BUT, E fan looks so CLEAN. I have only had one REAL concern about efans, that is the hint of it going out. With fan clutch I hear it, can spin it, and you can see it go out with the way the temp reads and car runs. Your comment of consistancy makes total sense. Who doesn't want accuracy? And the benefit of much easier access to work on the car. Thank you. |
Originally Posted by dayvkaos
(Post 11677904)
sold
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