Ecu Voltage.....this makes me sick
 

Alright I think I have more then just a few problem by looking at my ecu outputs.
Wayne if you are out there I know you like to tinker with this stuff so maybe you can give me some feedback.. here we go...

()= Ideal voltage output
{}= MINE
Pins:
1G- NEUTRAL SWITCH (below 1.5V neutral -12V others) .... {.1V - 2.24V}
1H- (1.5) ....{2.19}
1I-(1.5 other gears 12 in 5th) ...{2.24-.1v}
1L- (below1.5 (clutch released) 12v depressed) ....{0v-0v}
1R- (3-5v).....{.20v}
1T- (below 1v)....{.19} car almost stalls when testing (maybe its supposed to happen)
1U-(2.2v) ....{1.14}
1V-(.8v)...{.38v}
1W- (12v)...{7v}
1X- (.8v)...{0V} ***trailing coil
2B-(2.3-2.7)...{.93}
2D-(.5v-1v acc)...{0V}
2E- (2.5-3.5v)....(.53v) ***almost stalls
2G-(1v)...{.60v}
2H-(3.5-4.5v)...{1.16v} ***car stalled
2J-(2-3v)...{.24v}
2L-(1-2v)...{.10v}
2R-(Ground 0V)....{.1v}
3A-(Ground 0V)....{.1v}
3E-(12v)...{.02v} *********** primary injector....!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!??


I dont expect anyone to correct everyone of these... im just looking for a general (your harness is fucked........ your ecu is fuked.... something along these lines...maybe something simple like bad grounds or messed up circuts..

also anyone know how I go about fixing that primary injector!?!?

Holly Molly, Wayne's gonna be busy with this :)

A voltage reading (if done proper) should have zero effect on the car's behavior.

You should give us readings for the battery voltage pin (input) and the reference voltage pin (output).

Was it done when idling or with key to on ?

Sometime it's hard to get a good voltage reading if you shove the voltmeter leads into the ECU plugs, it's easier to shove somerthing smaller and then connect that to the lead (like a paper clip).

Also, you are doing this by poking into the back of the plugs, right ? the pin diagram in FSM shows a back view of the plugs as they connect to the ECU.

hugues-

pin 3J (battery) ..(12v) {14.1v}

The test was done with the car idling... and yes im "backplugging" as I call it.
I have the UIM off now but i'll try a few with the paperclip method you suggested.

As for the primary injector... the brown wire leading to the injector plug is showing 11.54v which is good but the green wire is dead... so do I just run a new wire from the back of the injector to the ECU to fix the injector problem?

Since the car has cooled off I cant justly compare the old readings with my new ones...

As for my "reference voltage pin" I actually just pick a bolt on the frame of the car and go with it... maybe im supposed to be using the corresponding ground pins and im doing this all wrong...

The ECU is putting out the wrong voltage for the ground side primary injector (3E), it should be a tad less that what you see on the power side (the 11.54V you mention). What about the other primary injector, same thing ?

So changing the light green wire won't do a thing.

Check the ref. voltage (the 5 V at pin 2A) to make sure you are probing correctly.

Yes, you can probe the negative lead of voltmeter into the ground pin. It should not matter much since you say you have .1 V at the ground pin (which is a tad high imo).

What's the story behind all this ? You plugged the battery backwards or something :D

hugues-

"Check the ref. voltage (the .5 V) to make sure you are probing correctly."

Sorry maybe ive been at this too long, how do I go about doing that again?>

What do you get at pin 2A ... it's not in your initial report. Use same method as you used to get the other ones.

hugues-

2A...{4.9v}

oh thats what ref voltage is ...

ok, the ref voltage is good.


This means the sensors (water thermo, boost, etc - you can see them in the wiring diagram - they are all powered by that ref. voltage) are bad or the wiring from sensors to ECU is bad.

How can that happen ? I don't know, a fire maybe ?

The ECU could still be good.

hugues -

well i just replaced my waterthermo so i know thats good..

I figure it has to be the wiring ... i dont know what would cause all of the sensors to mess up like that...

maybe the old car owner had a small car fire and just decided to tape up and cover over the problem... My harness is shit.

maybe a new harness would help out...

IF I ran "dummy" wires from the boost sensor etc, to the ecu and I rechecked the voltage I could tell which is busted. The sensor or the wires..

The plug on the primary injector was recessed (funny, same thing happened to my waterthermo, Bac and another injector plug) The left plug was pushed back through not making a connection...

All right man, I just got up, and still too sleepy to decipher it all, lol...

Looks like Hugues is helping you out OK, though....:)

You've got a turbo, so my pin #s and yours might be different, therefore, instead of just giving me pin #s & voltages, tell me WHAT sensor, input, output, etc you are supposed to be reading at the particular pin...

Looks like you're getting the hang of it :)

First things I'm noticing:

Are any of your tranny switches connected down at the tranny???
Car shouldn't be sputtering when checking voltage- make sure the meter is not set to a resistance scale, or that will happen (you're basically shorting the circuit to ground with the meter's neg lead, if on resistance)

If actually reading .1v at the grounds, the connection is not as clean as it should be...

Was the stalling at all the injector???

Let's take it one group of items at a time...check your afm, tps, water thermo, afm intake, and boost sensor input voltages first and give me the numbers (at idle, car warm)...

Make sure your meter lead has a good ground also, and do not "toggle" the meter past the resistance scales when hooked up to a "live" ECU, OK?

alright... I just fixed my primary injectors... the plug connection was crap so i fixed it..
(noticed superglue behind the sockets works great to hold it in)

I'm going to reinstall my UIM and start the car and see what happends, then once its warmed up i'll start the process with what you've told me afm, tps, water thermo, afm intake, and boost sensor...

"Was the stalling at all the injector???"
No, not from what I thnk anyways...

"make sure the meter is not set to a resistance scale,"
Ive kept my meter on 12v the whole time throughout the test...

"Are any of your tranny switches connected down at the tranny???"
Checking now!

Hey, for the first part of your sensor tests mentioned above, you can also just have the key on...

What voltage scale is your meter on? If using a Fluke, it won't matter, but if using an analog, go for the 0-5 volt scale if you have one for the sensors, and a 0-15v scale for the 12 volt stuff (batt input, injectors, tranny switches, etc...)

Damn wish I wasn't so busy! I would do the same thing right now! My engine wiring harness is poor at best as well and am thinking about getting another engine wiring harness however first I want to make sure thats what it is before spending all that dough. Good luck yall I'll probably be changing my trany fluid with mt90 and doing the ecu read out saturday!

Also make sure you're on the DC voltage scale, not the AC voltage scale :)

Some of your numbers up top there look like they were read on the AC...

If you have alligator clips, or something similar, clip the negative meter lead to a stud with them nearby the ECU, then you won't have to worry about touching a ground with it everytime you're trying to read something with the pos lead...

And again, if you have a smaller voltage scale than 12v, use it for the sensors-the readings will be more accurate...

I'm waking up now :)

Hey, Honda Dude :) You better pay attention, because I'm not typing all this stuff again, lol...

Im sure its on the DC scale and if you want i'll switch to a 1.5v so maybe that will give a closer reading...
the car is back together now and its running..

!.5v won't work- the needle will be pegging out on most readings...Just leave it on 12v if that's as close as you can get...Just try to get as accurate as you can when reading the "small" sensor voltages on the 12v scale...I'll be back in a bit...

LORD WOW..

I assume I have NEVER had my 7 running on both rotors before... THIS CAR IS A BOLT OF LIGHTNING. I reved it to 2k dropped the clutch and while in reverse spun the tires out for a good 3 seconds WITHOUT even giving it any more gas!.

BUT... I think I fucked my engine before I ever got it running.....
At idle there is a slight twitch along with coughing... with only 7K on the engine I think she is hurting... I guess this is it though, I get it working and find out it was already broken...

Damn this car is fast...

I'm going to do a compression test right now and then i'll get back to my other circuit tests...
sorry for being so distracted but this car is insane...

Lol, screw the ECU, let's have some fun, huh? :)

Well, you learned a valuable lesson- you figured out you had an injector problem because of the ECU checks :)

Congrats :)

Pin 2G.....Your TPS setting is way off. It should be approx 1 volt with a fully hot engine. With a cold engine it is usually higher than one volt, which brings me back to the conclusion you NEED to fully warm the car up and adjust the TPS screw til pin 2G reflects close to one volt.

Pn 1H....your reading is normal.

Pin 1I.....probably ok. Just put the transmission in fifth and verify that it goes to approx 12v.

Pin 1L....your clutch sw is probably disconnected. Not a big player except with a cold engine at idle.

Pin 1R.....the boost controll box is disconnected or the knock sensor is disconnected. Not a noticable player at idle or driving around situations.

Pin 1T....normal, except for the car stalling. Probably just a meter thing. Ignore or put the meter on AC volts and see what you read.

Pin 1U....not quite right. Turn just the ignition on and see how close to 4.4 v you come to. Trail coils are NOT a big player in idle or normal driving around.

Pin1V.....not good/not bad. Makes me suspect the meter/meter user? Again, a trail coil. Who cares?

Pin 1W...low. Wonder why? Got me. Its the heat sensor under the passenger seat. Makes you wonder about the meter/leads/user/ground for the meter??

Pin 1X......again trail coil. Makes you start to wonder a bit.

Pin 2B.....is a serious item. Did you idle the car and remove the vac hose from the boost sensor before reading the pin???? It seems you did not. Try again with the engine idling and the boost sensor vac line off and blocked.

Pn 2D....if the engine was idling I'd say the o2 sensor wire is disconnected or shorted to ground. Not a big player at idle OR driving.

Pin 2E.... a big player in life. The reading is screwy. At idle it should be approx 2.5v give or take a few tenths depending on your idle speed.

Pin 2G.....a fairly large player. Covered in the beginning of this thread.

Pin 2H.....much to low. I've no idea why. I really doubt its the ECU though...or the sensor.

What is the name of your meter? And where did you buy it? Is it digital? Don't get me wrong. You can use a Radio Shack little twenty buck digital meter and that is just fine. Been there, done that. Used it to look at the o2 while driving for about a year. Beats a Autometer afr gauge all to pieces.

I'd be trying to figure out why the afm and presusre sensor are reading low for a beginning. Again...probably NOT the ECU.

Thanks Hailers, saved me some digging :)

If he's running as well as he's letting on, I think the "meter user" theory might have come into play just a bit...But, he's learning, and that's what counts...

Not knocking the user. Learn by doing til it gets rote. If I have time I'll do my turboii in the next few days and post it. Eighty seven turboII. I suspect he had the key to ON and the car NOT idling...which resulted in battery that was discharging some...which might account for some low voltages...not all. If I were him I'd turn the key to OFF and look at the ECU grounds with the meter on ohms and reply as to what he saw.

Pushed back pins on the bac and injector plugs and the water thermo sw ........seen that myself before. Good find. Superglue is fine to hold them in place.

the meter is an equus 4320
http://www.iequus.com/item.asp?cid=60&pid=4320
there is a pic.

I dont know what Im doing wrong but the way the readings are going Im messing up somewhere...

TPS..... This is the thing that started me on the whole process. I had the original in the car and I let the car warm up... Checked it at the pin and it read .50 so I tightened the screw.. no matter how much I tightened it I couldnt get it past that .60v... SO I switched out with another one my friend had... it only ranged from .10v-.36v so I threw my old one back in, readjusted it the highest it would go and began the ecu testing!

Pin 2B boost sensor... yes I idled the car and removed the vac hose... it came out at .93v I even tried it after with the hose on... .40v... I dont know...

Pn 2D o2 sensor... probably right.. must just be grounded...

LOL, yeah I'm paying attention and I know where the search button is ;)

Hailers, another interesting thing I noted on the ref voltage was that is was exactly the same whether batt voltage (key on) or alt voltage (eng running) was at the ECU, which leads me to believe that the ECU has an internal voltage regulator, instead of just a step-down resistor package, to produce that ref voltage. Next question is how low the batt input voltage can go before that ref voltage starts dropping...

87RX- that should be a good meter for ya, although for changing voltages (such as TPS, boost sensor, AFM, etc) while driving, I prefer an analog because it provides a much better visual presentation of what's going on compared to a bunch of digits flashing by every second...But for static checks (key on, idle) the digital should be fine...

If your ref voltage is good, and your TPS circuit (wiring) is good, you should be able to nail that 1 volt by adjustments. Take a look at the male & female spade terminals in your TPS connector out on the engine- they tend to get corroded, which can really mess with your signal...

O2 sensor won't read right until she's fully warm. At that point, cruising down the freeway, the meter should be bouncing back & forth between .4 and .5 volts (closed loop operation)

I've always found it easier to read the boost sensor while driving, instead of the BS that Mazda wants you to do with the vac hose off. It too should show a nice linear voltage change with moderate acceleration...

It's still possible you've got harness problems, but check those problem sensors again just to make sure...

I have been working for the past few days so the car sensor testing has had to wait...
I did take the car to the dealer (oh no) for a compression test we hooked it up and turned it over on the front.....it had like a 7 an 8 and a 0... so this looks REALLY bad.

Switched it over to the back, tested... 25.5,25.5,25.5... he looks at it and says "WTF?" the highest its supposed to hit is like a 9 or 10.

Tried the front again.. this time 0,0,0 ... then the back 0,0,0....

My car broke the compression tester so no they have to send it to get fixed and I'll rebook my appointment next week...

If the a seal in the front rotor is gone dosent that mean I would see a (#,0,0) or is it possible to get a (#,#,0)?

If the car still works Im going to keep "tweaking" with it but if a seal is gone I'm going to sell it... I've already put about 6g into the car, and with the new motor only having about 6-7k on it (I kept overestimating) I dont think I have the money to go out and buy another reman...

man it sounds to me that the dealer doesn't know what he is doing! I don't know where somewhere cold is but you should try and find a rotary mechanic!!!! If taht only has 6 or 7k miles on his I don't see how it could be a dead engine.

if i've driven it around on the rear rotor (thinking the front was working)
and the car was running lean (front primary not working)... it might be a possibility..
and this guy was worked on 7's since the 70's... hes not a bad guy, I think he knows what hes doing

Very true if you where running on one rotor. I was doing some searches a while back and came to this one post where this guy said his car was running like crap and then one day it ran like the best it has ever driven and the next thing he knew his engine was poped. He said that if your engine does that then it's usually a pretty good sighn of it going. Don't know if that pertains to you but I remember when you said it was working better than ever so that kind of reminded me of that thread. So this rotary mechanic has never seen it do this before??? Strange shit man!

87RX7- do have oil coming out of the plug holes or anything weird like that?

#,#,0 would be a side seal...

Break that sucker down and rebuild yourself! Heck the guys on this forum could walk you through it step-by-step if you need help; then we could get another 30-something page thread going like Gnomes, lol :)

me rebuilding it wouldnt be the problem... comming up with 1000 bucks for the kit would be...
And im sure you guys would be there to help!

Could I rebuild, just replacing the side seal? (i dont want new apex's if I dont need them)

bump

Supposedly you can if the apex seals meet the specs in the fsm. The FSM suggests putting the apex seals back exactly where they came from. Personally there ain't no way I'd do it that way. Life and mechanical thiings, just don't work like that in my opinion. Hey, you wanted an opinion.

:grouphug:

lol whats that for.....crazy ass!

What the heck is that? Is that a group hug thingy? Man, the "if it feels good, do it" liberals really are taking over, lol...

87RX-I think Hailers pretty well summed it up for you...If you're gonna tear her down, do it right the first time...

Lol, sorry bout that. I just get a little emotional when someone uses the search function ;).

hehe, thats the best part about this site!

"do it right the first time"
I just got a new engine though.... Its my own stupid fault if its gone...
But I guess if HAILERS says so!

Tuesday = compression test...
Wednesday= back to testing ECU voltages.

OK, do it right the second time :)

Yeah, no doubt. I'm sure people hate me because a lot of my posts are this: "Do a search" in reply to their threads. Oh well, it's the best damn advice I can give...

no matter what I want to do all I have to do is look it up and 9.5 times out of 10 it will be there. The knowlege that is in this site is crazy! Anything I don't know I just ask wayne ;) lol.

This is also true. I just recently got bitched at for telling someone to search to find the answer. So... I did the search myself; in 4 minutes I found 5 threads dealing with the same issue the guy was having and posted them up as a reply. I have yet to hear back from the guy bitching at me for telling the thread starter to search.

lol there should be a pop up that comes up everytime you enter the site (if you have less than 100 posts) that reads "search newb search" or something to that affect. I think people view it as home work (most people hate homework) and just make there own thread instead.

Yeah. I've been damn tempted to make a thread without searching first. I have a few times done it and regretted it. Honestly though, it's just easier to do a search. You'll (most likely) get information: quicker, easier, and more detailed. But... whatever floats peoples boats.