Can I bolt a FD tranny to an FC 13b N/A?
 

Do I need to buy a flywheel/clutch for the fd tranny and it easily drops in i Hope? Im looking to build 400 hp and my N/A tranny dosen't look like its going to take it. Would I need a FD rear end I hope i can swap in? Or if anybody suggests another good way to get a tranny to support this kind of power. Whatever works I guess.

I've never heard of anyone attempting this. Its my guess that the tranny mount is in the wrong place. If you need it to handle more power, just get a Turbo tranny. They're pretty much good for as much power as you can put down unless you do a radical port job.
Edit: just looked at you sig and saw you have a gsl-se. If thats the car you're doing it in, the I have no idea. If you already have a 2nd gen NA tranny, then the turbo tranny will bolt up the same way, but with a diff clutch and flywheel. On a 2nd gen you would need a turbo rear end and driveshaft, or jsut a custom driveshaft, but no idea on a 1st gen.

consider all of your hopes ravaged and desroyed. the flywheels are different, the contact areas are different sizes (different clutch disc), the clutch is a pull type on the fd as opposed to the push clutch on the fc and the mounts are obviously going to be radically different because the cars have two completely different bodies.

not even going to get into the driveshaft... you'd obviously need a custom hybrid one.

i beleve your shifter will be out of place as well

Your N/A makes 400hp???
:eek:


-Ted

its N/A now, im going to belt up a t78, i have a 1987 FC N/A Sport package. I'll use the turbo tranny then, does it have to be an S4 or can I use an S5? ALso do I get the turbo II flywheel and put it on my N/A engine? along with a turboII clutch etc. all the way back into a turbo II rear end for the easy LSD and 5 lug conversion?

TII trannies are as tough as FD trannies and bolt right in with no major modifications.

there is no possible way to make an FD tranny work with a S4 engine anyways due to the flywheel and clutch being a pull type S5/S6 which the balance is not allowable with an S4 rotating assembly.

there is no major differences between the S4 and S5 TII tranny as far as i remember, the main one being the tranny mount. yes you will need a flywheel matched to your rotating assembly so if it is an S4 engine you will need a S4 TII flywheel/clutch, the TII tranny and driveshaft, either S4 or S5 TII LSD and half shafts .

can I get an S5 TII tranny if I have to?

FWIW....you realize the T78 is going to be the last of your worries right? what are you doing for ignition?fuel?cooling?oiling?exhaust?monitoring?ma nagement? theres much much more involved in 400hp than having a drivetrain to hold it and having a big f***ing snail...

But yes...you can, the tranny mounts are *slightly* different and I can't remember which one is which right now, but it will work.

grab any TII tranny with the mount for that series, and get a custom driveshaft made or purchase one from mazdatrix. also get
tii slave sylinder
tii flywheel (might as well buy a lightweight one while your at it)
tii clutch (might as well upgrade here too)
new pilot and throwout bearings
tii starter
throw in new shifter bushings and gaskets if needed.

you guys are gods...keep it coming

Do I have to get a brand new alum flywheel resurfaced before install or do they come as such? Is there a better brand than fidanzia because thats where Im looking right now.

[QUOTE=classicauto]what are you doing for ignition?fuel?cooling?oiling?exhaust?monitoring?ma nagement? theres much much

MSD is my brand for ignition I just need to see what model

Fuel - Most likely twin warlboro

Oil is Amsoil and the t78 just needs an oil core for cooling

Exhaust-Racing beat TII exhaust unless something better exists

Monitoring/Mangement- I've heard alot about AEM's ECU but I am weak in electronics

Cooling- By this Im assuming the stock cooling system won't hold, even in prime maintainence? Whats the best rad to buy? I might as well get an electric fan too, inform me there as well.

I know this is slightly off of topic, but am I right in assuming it would be about under a grand to get rebuilt a tii tranny?

Let me get this right...
You're putting a Mitsubishi T78 on a 13B non-turbo engine?


-Ted

i think he is referring to a Greddy T78(ok so i just read that mitsu builds them, what's wrong with that?)

maybe he is planning on running race fuel. ;)

Yes, which is made by Mitsubishi.


-Ted

i just looked up the specs, surprised they actually listed the mfr.

but really at least.. lets quit nitpicking the kid, at least he is building up the drivetrain first which is usually the last thing people do.

Sorry, I just assume most people know this. :)
Just like HKS likes to use Garrett turbos...


Not not-picking - I just want to make sure we're all on the same page, since my brain gets fried really easily! :)


-Ted

heh, i think i fly off the handle more than most these days. :p:

yes that turbo is grossly huge for a high compression engine, a recipe for disaster but he did already mention he needs to learn a few things before he proceeds building.

what turbo would be better for roughly 400hp

I think you should start with another engine...


-Ted

well you can sap a decent amount of power from a high compression engine, it just requires more expertise and the final product is less forgiving to errors or if you even get a bad tank of gas then... BOOOM! for 400RWHP you would probably have to run race gas, at $6+ per gallon, well i hope this isn't going to be your daily driver.

an S4 turbo engine is a much more forgiving engine to start with a big turbo on since it is the lowest compression of all the turbo rotaries but potential is limited with smaller ports, an REW(3rd gen) engine would build power much quicker since it is like starting with an already ported S4 engine but compression is also higher so they also are less forgiving but build power quicker. if you are just starting in turbo charged rotary modding then obviously the S4 TII engine is the way to go.

I don;t think that's true at all. The high compression will need less turbopressure to make the same amount of power as a low compression engine running alot higher boost.

Maybe the engine is weaker internally?? then okay, but compression wise there no reason it can;t make alot of power and be reliable.

Alot of dragrace teams use this formula as well, okay they open up the engine afterwards but it can be done so to say. 9.4 to 1 is not a really high compression at all compaired to other cars as well as some cars running turbo's.

Alot of european turbo cars run very high stock boost and have very high compression ratios as well.

Who is building your non-turbo motor so that it can support 400 HP???

the N/A has a lower Comp ratio than the T2 of the same year, besides its better to boost to compensate for lack of compression ratio than the other way around.

No, the Turbo has lower compression.

The 87-88 Turbo's compression is only 8.5:1 while the 86-88 non turbo motor was 9.4:1 compression.

Even the 89-96 Turbo's compression ratio was only 9.0:1 which is lower than the 86-88 non turbo engine.

And you still didn't say who was building the motor to make 400 HP. I hope you are not thinking that you will just bolt a Turbo onto a used high (or even low mileage) non turbo engine, and you gonna get 400 HP.

Yes it can be done. But that doesn't mean a 400hp rotary with high comp. rotors will be easy to use.

You need to do a little more research.

Running that kind of power with a higher compression rotor setup is going to make tuning...and driving for that matter....on the edge of a knife. Sure guys with a piston engine run 9.0:1 pistons and boost them, but you can also detonate a piston engine from canada to mexico with little or no problems other than the blonde in the driver seat wondering what the ping sound is. Rotaries are an ENTIRELY different ball game. One ping can pop the motor.

Damn, this sucks, where do I go from here? How can I get 400hp now

Would it work or even get me close with a smaller turbo? Or can I just not turbo this engine at all?

Well all you have to do is go buy....

1: J-SPec TII engine, and rebuild it
2: T4 flanged manifold
3: T-78 (I guess....thats what you want.........:naughty:)
4: Wastegate
5: Frontmount
6: 550 primaries and 1680 sec. or another combo to net the same overall fuel amount
7: Adujstable FPR
8: Fuel pump
9: Clutch
10: EMS....Id recommend Haltech, but whateva
11: Wideband
12: TII drivetrain
13: Koyo rad
14: Whatever else you need to put that together such as oil feed/drain lines, fuel line, etc.
15: A good tuner and a prayer

Its a big money game to get into.....trust me, Im fuckin broke and Im still tyring to get my shit to the dyno!!!

Edit: you "can" turbo that engine, but if you're really shooting for 400whp, you will have a tough time keeping the N/A block intact....or I should say...you'll have an easier time keeping the TII keg intact.

Can i swap bigger ports onto the s4 turbo to take care of the small ports problem?

rather than drag this thread on for days...............

there is plenty of info on how to make 400hp out of one of these motors...the S4's "small" ports aren't a problem at all.

Do some reading in the Single turbo section, search 400hp in there and see what you get.

Who saind anything about running higher boost?
If we're talking big turbos, it's all about flow...

I guess you missed the part about narrowing your safety margin with the higher compression?

Look, this was my assumption on this thread...
The original poster has no clue what they are doing.
This has been proven with their ignorant replies.
You're going to assume they can tune a high compression 13B to make 400hp?
Boy, you got a lot more faith in others than I do...


I'm not worried about the engine.
I'm worried about the blast non-turbo intake manifold...


I never said it was impossible.
I said...I think it's a better idea to use another motor...other than the stock non-turbo 13B.

What the hell does this have to do with:
1) FC's?
2) rotary engines?


-Ted

hey dude, i feel for you, im trying to make 320hp on a tII.
its a rough road.
have you thought about a super charger?
camden..(correct me here, guys) makes a nice super charger for the NA 13b.
i know ive seen someone on here showing a thread on bolting it up and everything.
it may be cheaper to rebuild, port, 3mm, supercharge, and all that good stuff
if you already have the 13b.
you know, just thinking outside the box.

Yeah i give people the benifit of the doubt, so i probably have to much faith in others. But if the guy wants his 13b 400hp high comp to work i'd like to him some options he has instead of telling someone the risks first to scary him off(not saying that you are, just generally speaking).

In my project wich happens to be also a ,13b n/a high comp turbo setup, the stock manifold is going to be replaced by a custom piece so i'm not worried about that. It's good to know that the intake manifold is a weak point according to what you're saying.

Yeah i wouldn't recommend the stock 13b as a base setup either, but if it's rebuild and beefed up the engine can be as potent as any other. (My oppinion). We'll see what my project does when done. It's going to take a few months but it's progressing good.

That had the hell to do with the point i was trying to make by high compression and turbopower. It had nothing to do with FC's and Rotary engines. You missed the point i was trying to make, or i wasn;t able to make my point clearly enough.

Keep your shirt on guy no need to start bringing hell into a healthy debat. It's a forum, and i'm still learning about Rotary engines :icon_tup:

Cheers
Musclefella