BNR Turbo's, Q and A
 

whats needed to run BNR turbo's....

i want too run a BNR stage 3 but dont know what i need, my list of mod are below....

where can i see there products and there information, i'm seriously considering going the BNR way, but what would you guys suggest....

i want about 425hp at the flywheel....

thanx again....

P.S. will 720cc secondary's and a walbro 255lph cut it for using a BNR stage 3?...

or should i just get BNR stage 2?...


Mods:

- 3" Racing Beat Turbo-Back Exhaust
- Blitz SS BOV
- Tein Coilovers
- Centerforce Dual-Friction clutch
- HKS PFC F-Con
- HKS GCC
- HKS Turbo-Timer
- FCD
- FD Flywheel
- SRP Boost controller
- Autometer boost and A/F guages
- MazdaSpeed steering wheel
- MazdaSpeed racing pedels
- Manaray 6spoke 16" rims
- Ractive tornado cone filter
- Yokohama AVS ES100 Z-Rated rubber

no one have any idea's...?

You will definately need more fuel, and some way to control it, IE an SAFC or standalone. The 720s may work.

I run a stage 4 with 720 primaries and 890 secondaries, and my injector duty cycles never exceed 60% at 17 PSI.

i'd say run 4 x720 CC's should be enough.. (and a way to tune it ofcouse)

so what about my FCON.... cant i use that...?

i do want to reuse my FCON....

I am not terribly familiar with the FCON, but I assume it works in the same manner as the SAFC?

ya it's like an AFC but a little more Old school...

not quite as powerful as the AFC II

it's showing it's age...

the only question i really have is will the FCON work.... and what injectors should i be getting, because i'm getting them really really soon, like next week....

will the FCON handle 890's in the secondaries or only 720's?...

how much % wise can u add and lean fuel? +/- 20%?

i have no idea, i have a GCC aswell and it's a turn screw type system, you tune it between -12 and +16....

what about my injector question...?

I would really go with 550/890cc combo because I had 720x4 but it ended up creating all sort of flooding issues. the 550/890 combo supports teh same hp as the 720x4 but without the crazy big primaries. Good luck. I have no idea about the fcon, never used one.

ahh crap.... so i guess 720's are too small....

thanx guys....

Thats because you used an SAFC. They arent anything but trouble..

jrat is 720cc's too small for BNR stage 3 or 4?...

man everyone i ask keeps telling me different, how would my FCON react too 890's?...

P.S. whats BNR's website where i can see prices and that for the turbo's.... ensted of sending my S5 to be modded do they sell them already done?...

Its really not a function of having too much fuel, its more a function of what boost levels do you intend to run?

I agree, unless you are going to be running standalone 720cc injectors in the primaries is just way to much because the safc can't take fuel out on the initial cranking of the motor and that is where you will flood with the 720cc injectors and stock ecu with a piggyback. Archangels, you should be fine with 550s and 890cc injectors or what you can do is wait till the rtek 1.8 comes out and it will be made for either a 550/720 combo or 720x4 combo. The site for the bnr upgrades is. http://www.rx7store.net/index.asp?Pa...S&Category=364 and for the rtek chips the site is www.pocketlogger.com

well i wana run decent power about 15psi or so, keep in mind it's a street car with ocassional track ( drag ) use, i was hoping 720cc's would be enough, but now my question is, would my FCON automatically adapt too the 890cc's like it does for 550cc's or 720cc's, the computer automatically tunes itself so i dont know if 890cc's are out if it's league or not....

I see mild difference between BNR stage 2's and 3's.... if i can use 720cc's for either or i'll go stage 3 but if i can use them with only stage 2, then thats the one i'll go with....

guess thats my last question....

IF your harness is in good condition I woudl recommend the Rtek 2.0 when it comes out.
It will be like a standalone system but almost half the price.

I;ve heard 720's don't work in primary slots with piggy backs is because I think they use different maps on start up so the SAFC isn't working yet so the ECU is injecting 550cc pulses and not lowered 720cc pulses.

Jrat tried the big BNR and a SAFC. It didn't work out very well. :P ;)

dude... you have a f-con
cant you call hks to tell them to make you a chip?

yeah, HKS does have a chip for their upgraded turbo kit, think its like a td07 or 20g or something, maybe you could tune from that, but thats still fairly ghetto

F-Con is great, but can't handle diff injector sizes like the S-AFC can
The S-AFC still can't control primaries at cranking cause theyre WOT and the AFM signal has no effect on that.

maybe see if you can save up and get a standalone or find a Power FC for S5 FC on yahoo.co.jp or something and sell your stock ECU/AFM/F-Con to recoop some of the money later.
You still have to pay for tuning and whatever else you need, but standalone is better.


and he has a 89 s5, rtek 2.0 is s4 only as of now

and he has a 89 s5, rtek 2.0 is s4 only as of now[/QUOTE]


:doh: I'm giving all sorts of shitty advice, *shutting up* ;)

ahh crap....

last question i really need to ask is what turbo should i look into getting....

BNR stage 2 or 3....

my FCON i wana keep and upgrade everything later, and i'm sure the FCON will work with 720cc's in the secondary's just fine....

can i get away with 15psi boost or lower with the 720cc's on these turbo's?, if not can i get away with them using the stage 2?...

You are asking the wrong questions...

You want 425 FWHP... If thats the number you want, then 2x 550s and 2x 720s wont get you there.

your injector size depends on your horsepower demand, not what turbo you buy.

Rat

ok well then, with 720cc injectors in secondary spot what kind of turbo can i run and what kind of power can i expect....

BNR stage 2 or 3....

Can i run stage 3 with the 720cc's in the secondarys at about 15psi or lower ( if not what psi )....

if stage 3 is a no go, can i run stage 2 and use 720cc secondaries and my FCON...?

I repeat you should not run 15lbs on any turbo with stock ems. You will blow your motor. You don't have the timing for 15lbs and the stock top mount can cool the charge enuff. Damn get a aftermarket ems system or be happy with 10lbs of boost. Cut and dry end of story.

http://rx7.com/cgi-local/2ndgencalc.cgi go there to calculate what injectors will support what hp. Once you have calculated what hp the 720cc secondaries will support then base your turbo upgrade to that. Also bukwild is right you do need a frount mounted intercooler before you get this thing because the stock tmic is not going to cut it. As far as a stand alone ems as it is nice to have it is not nessasary. I'm pushing 15psi and I'm on stock ecu however I do have an rtek chip that retards timing past 9psi of boost.

psst, i think a front mount was quite obvious with a turbo upgrade, it's on it's way....

and by the way i was only asking what my limits are, i want 720cc's and a turbo upgrade ( yes i will have supporting mods ) and just want to know what turbo i can run....

Provided your injectors are in good condition and you have decent compression...


YOU CAN RUN 4 X 720CC INJECTORS ALL DAY LONG WITH JUST A SAFC.

Sure you can, if you enjoy flooding.

You can run the stage 4 if you want, but you have to keep the boost down.

Do you understand what I am trying to ask you? HOW MUCH BOOST/HORSEPOWER do you want?

Turbo doesnt really matter, its how you use it that defines your fueling. And while I am on that tack, I am a FIRM believer in having MORE fuel then needed. So if I were to use an SAFC with a Stage 2 or 3 Turbo, I would go 550 primaries and 890 or so secondaries.

Rat

well now that i think about it i will only really want to run a conservative 12psi'ish....

thats why i ask you which turbo would best suit me....

i think stage 4 is overkill thats why i was looking at stage 2 and 3, unless you have a different opinion :P

Here is my opinion:

If you have a stock motor, and you are looking for 12 PSI, then the stage 2 may very well suit your purpose. If you have a ported motor, then why not go with the stage 3? It leaves you some flexibility if you decide you want more out of the motor.

The Stage 4 is a whole different animal.

I installed a stage 4 on a stock motor, which may have hurt me in the overall picture, due to the fact that it does take a bit of work to spool. HOWEVER, I am on a standalone, which gives me more flexibility when it comes to the spool-up range on the turbo, and allows me some spool area tuning. This has VASTLY helped my spool.

if hks is making a new chip
why cant it use different injectors?
the injector sizes are in the rom chip
just because the stock chip was designed for 550 doesnt mean a hks reprogramed one MUST be for 550....

well my motor is basically stock, S4 block with all S5 externals....

i want moderate power, wana hit low 12's and all aswell, and i did notice that the stage 2 is capeable of getting me there....

it's a tossup between stage 2 and 3 right now, there isnt a big difference between the 2 either....

As in low 12s in the quarter mile?

yes, on the site they say the stage 2 at approx. 14psi ( if i remember correctly ) propels the 7 down the 1/4 in 12.3secs....

but which turbo would best suit what i want and what i want to use is what i'm asking....

I don't understand what your not getting here man. some dinky 720cc injectors will not get you that much further then stock. Put some 890cc injectors in the secondaries and be done with it. Move away from your fcon if you don't think it will work and get an safc. You will not be hitting 12 anything with 720cc secondary injectors unless you want your car to go boom. So now go pickup some 890cc injectors sell your fcon buy an safc and get a stage III, done.

call Bryan if we are not answering your question but I don't see how we are not answering your question as you keep saying the same thing and it keeps getting answered over and over and over again.

for some reason i'm not understanding most of this, the car right now runs low 13's and thats on stock injectors, pump, and Fcon, i just dont understand why i cant tune the Fcon to support bigger injectors like that without the chip.... it's nearly like an SAFC, so personally i dont understand what the difference is....

thanx for all the help though guys, guess i'll check into 890cc injectors and a way to control them properly, possibly my Fcon....

Lets dispell one myth right now.

Just bolting on a BNR stage 2 and cranking up the boost will NOT get you into the 12s. There is a VAST difference between what a Stage 2 is CAPABLE of, and what it will do on YOUR car.

I am more then confident that a BNR stage 2 or 3 can propell a car down the 1320 in under 12 seconds, but with the proper supporting mods, and tuning. A turbo is not a SIMPLE BOLT ON MOD...

Liar. Of course it is!!!!

Just like adding more fuel makes your car go faster and gives more HP!! :P

hah, well thanx guys.... in all honesty i just wanted to know what injectors ( 720cc's ) would best suit my turbo needs, and which would "play nice" and not lean out....

thats why i'm pondering either stage 2 or 3, i dont see a major difference between either of them, thats why i ask....

thanx again....

Look in MY sig. I've had the set up for well over a year and have NEVER, EVER, EVER flooded.



Ever.


The 4 x 720 setup is a much better idea than stock primary's with 850 or 890cc secondaries. First it makes tuning the set up much easier and smoother on a safc. Most importantly however, leaving the stock primary injectors in with an upgraded turbo leaves a dangerous area under which you can pop your motor: Cruising on the highway well under secondary activation point. In that situation it's very easy to obtain full boost before the secondaries ever come online. With much more air being crammed into the engine than the stock turbo provided, this is a good place for pre-ignition to occur.

I have been running a BNR stage II with 4 x 720's and an emanage since last march. I have a little bit more headroom on these injectors. At 14 pounds I was hitting 90 percent injector duty cycles. Of course while running the stock intercooler, these high boost numbers aren't very beneficial at all and with the super heated intake temps could be dangerous to the motor. I usually run my turbo at around 10 pounds, it feels quicker than the old turbo did when I ran it to the raggged edge at 1 bar. With a front mount and some decent tires I feel this set up will do high 12's @111-112 all day long.

first off the stage III bnr doesn't reach full boost till way later in the rpm range 4.5k or so. I've been on the interstage plenty of times and durring cruze in 5th gear I have to get to about 3.5 or 4k rpm before I start boosting. with the rtek the secondary cut on is 3.5k. Anyways also there has been many people that I've talked to say they started flooding big time with the larger primaries including reted I believe and many others. You may be one of the few that 720cc injectors work in the primary location so consider yourself lucky. I bought two sets of 720cc injectors witch is not cheap only to find out my engine would flood so I had to sell both sets at a lost just to get some 890cc injectors in a hurry.

Were they new and/or cleaned injectors?

keep the stock turbo and get a haltech. your car will be just as fast and be wayyyy better.

yeah the 720cc injectors came straight from rx7.com and had about 2 hundred miles on them.