blew three alternators in three days whats up
 

Ok just bought car from a friend on the club site its a 87 tii has the haltech e6x and a haltech ra10 to run the ls1 coils everything I can find says its three wires the s or sence wire the l or idiot light wire and the charge lead well I have a fourth hooked up at the charge lead does anyone know what it is and also I have the lucky 7 race pully setup if that matters I just want the car not to keep eating up these alternaters ! Thanks for any insight guys

How are the alternators failing? No charging? Overvolt?

No charging the onr i had rebuilt the shop said blew the rear bearings but I dont think that's the main issue

try not getting crap alternators.

and

are you sure you have sufficient amps to actually power everything that needs it? stock IIRC they are 60 amps, which isn't a whole lot.

Ok the first alternater was custom from previous owner and had been working in the car for at least one year the second one was ordered through my local shop probably carquest the third was that original one that I took in and had rebuilt they said they beefed it up by about 5 amps all three went bad so im pretty sure its not parts but something in the setup if your just going to smart off and not even mention anything to do with my thread please post somewhere else to help you feel better about yourself now once again anybody know what that fourth wire might be ?

i'm not the one who hasn't said anything here, all you've said is that your alternators keep failing.

what do you want to know? it is belt driven and hooked up to the battery, what is there else to fail? if you're alternators keep failing then the battery may be weak, they're being overheated, they're junk or you're not testing them properly. underdriving them via underdrive pulleys will also result in low idle amperage figures, hence my "smarting off" comment.

it's a basic system with basic troubleshooting, the alternators are 25 years old and who knows how competent your rebuild shop is, especially if they consider 5 extra amps to be "beefed up".

Ok thanks for a better response well the belt system is the lightweight singlebelt deal from lucky7 the pully seems only slightly larger then the stock v belt system and as i understand it the should be three wires the l the s and the c or light sence and charge well i have four one extra one on the charge lead and I can't track where is goes I think maybe one of the haltech units ? And how can I test the umm consumption on these leads ? Car also has hid lights and a electric fan I tried the pully tight and loose on the second two alternaters they still failed and yes my engine creates a ton of heat how hot would too hot be shouldn't a alternator handle as much as that motor should hold expecially cuz the old intercooler vent is giving it airflow almost exclusively

A bad battery can kill an alternator. I've had it happen on my old GTU.

I use a red top optima and i bought a diehard for the last rebuilt alternator still blew it this is a more complicated issue I think

Just a suggestion, but try pulling the body ecu under the drivers kick panel. disassemble it and reflow all the solder joints. I had this issue not to long ago and this fixed my problem.

arethesestockalternatorsandifsoagainhowmanywiresot herthantheoutputcabledotheyhave?

I have a haltech e6x so I don't think it even goes to the charge system I was told it basically runs the clock and door lights so I don't think thats the issue but I will look into it couldn't hurt and hailers2 does your space bar not work LOL there are two wires hooked to my charge lead one goes to the battery and i replaced that with a shorter new cable the second has a eyelet type connector that disappears into the wire harness I have no idea what its for but have a feeling it might be part of the issue could anyone tell me if it might lead to the haltech ecu ? Or that ra10 converter

Is this or is it not a stock Mazda alternator? A stock alternator has one output cable and two smaller wires that control the alternator.

And this is why I prefer plug-and-play installation of standalones (assuming the OEM harness isn't trashed) rather than rewiring the whole car... there are so many things that have been altered and so many things that could be wrong

Exactly and there should be on a stock i know a charge lead the sence lead and and the idiot light lead the ones you mentioned on the pugtail are the sence or control wire and the other is the idiot light still none of this is helping I need to know what that extra wire on the charge lead is

Cloudzero is your 87 tii a swap or original tii

You still have the charge harness. The X wont replace that nor does it run the X directly off the output of the alternator.

The eyelet connector by the alt should be hooked up to the B+ post (beige thing with a nut on it). Have you verified the proper series alternator in your car or the appropriate mods to run a diffirent series?

mine is an original TII, but the alternator is an Fd unit. That little wire that runs to the body ecu is responsible for for triggering the gauge cluster and also telling the alternator when to get excited i think. mine would still charge but i had to rev it to about 3 grand then it would charge but was put out about 15-15.9 volts and basically killed the reg in the alternator. when i hooked up the new one it started doing the same thing. I fixed those solder joints basically i sucked out the old solder and replaced all the joint. and now my alternator is rock solid 14.1 volts, the idiot cluster works, never did and my horn works which has not worked in 5 years.

Witch wire is it that runs to the body if you dont.mind mine has a harness shielding so It's tuf to track them

Problem: Car eats alternators
Cause: Mazda being too cheap on them from the factory
Solution: use a Taurus Alternator

130A Taurus Alternator > 100A FD Alternator > 80A S5 Alt > 70A S4 Alt

As you can see, the almighty Taurus Alternator wins every time. Wiring is simple too, see attached picture from my photobucket
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/t...torUpgrade.jpg

Remember, the rated output for an alternator is its peak on a good day. Running it at its peak will burn it out in 15 minutes or less. To use a Taurus alternator, you'll need to run a dual belt pulley, the exact same one that you'd use with a FD alt on a FC. Japan2LA has them for sale right now and they're a perfect fit.

You'll need to fabricate some simple brackets. What I did was drill two 1/2" holes 1/2" apart each in two 1/4" thick flat iron pieces roughly 2" long. Add Five 1mm thick washers to the original fixed mount and you'll get it as close as possible to stock alignment. Flip the adjustment strap over backwards and put Four 1mm thick washers on where the adjustment bolt ear goes. If you get the alternator from a junkyard, be sure to get the pigtail and mounting bolts too.

Dude that's pretty much what i want to try thing is I'm running a single belt racing pully do you think I still could get your Taurus alty idea to work ?

I think you should use some punctuation other than space bar between words...hailers tried to make that point but you missed it.

Gotta love newbies who don't give enough information, don't use proper grammar and get mad at others for drawing their attention to these things....as if we are the cause of their problems.

As a sidenote...I only wish your thread title read "Blew three trannies in three days" :)

Wow what a dip FYI I'm posting from my cell phone probably one you can't afford anyway so here's the new scoop I finally got hold of the fellow who put this together he can't remember if the alty was a fc or a fd so I want to know would the pigtail from a fc fit in a fd alty and if so might my problem be that i need to flip those two wires around ? And quit trollin justjeff you might as well not post as your comments are not needed and yes you'll always be just Jeff nothing more !

and when you put all the info up,, the answer becomes obvious

the original t2 s4 does NOT have the correct trigger wiring for s5 and s6 alts
swapping them with no concern for changing the wiring brings up exactly the faults you describe

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/2...twiring3sz.gif

please look at the diagram carefully,,,, your field exciting trigger why should now be the battery + and NOT ignition switched power


s4 also lacks the B+ that is capable of carrying 70 + amps ,, s5 have a doubled B+ wire harness

the easiest solution is to cut the end of the existing B+,, and wire it into the S terminal plug for switching duty

now route 2 x 8 AWG or 1 x 4 AWG from the B+ pin on alt to the starter ( if battery in boot ) or to the EGI fuse ( unfused side ) or battery
( ie,, use the insufficient stock B+ for switching the alt,, and run a new,, capable B+ )

Thank you bumpstart lot of info there currently I'm about 2k miles from the car car so i will have to wait until i get there to try any of this but from I remember it looks like mine is a s4 or s5 thank you for the awesome diagram !

If your car is a S5 then yes it would plug in if it is a S4 then now the harness would have to be fabbed up. the S4 harness looks almost like a T while the S5/S6 harness is (||) shaped, or something close to that. On the s4 and s5 the harness plugs into the back of the alt, on an s6(fd) it plugs into the drivers side.


Anyways my issue was not my wiring of the vehicle which I have done a proper re-wire to handle the Fd alt, but it was an issue with the body ECU which uses the L terminal. And L feel this has an impact on the alternator knowing when to charge or enter limp mode / self excite.

Just like the test you can turn on the ignition and back probe the L terminal with a multimeter and you should read close to 1v. On mine it was reading 0v until i pulled the ECU and fixed the solder joints in there. Then I checked again and I had 1v back at the L terminal and stable idle voltage.

I'm just giving an example of my problem and solution trying to help the OP out with something simple he can check.

Kid, I'm trying to help you in getting help. I'm completely unconcerned about your bling bling cellphone. Once you mature a little you might understand that you grow out of the insecurity that causes envy.

I could have helped you out as I own both S5 and FD alts...maybe your phone can fix your car for you?

So far yes it has helped me fix my cars Jeff and i guess that's your half butted way of apologizing I accept but I'm more mature then posting rude and disrespectful comments in others threads we are all here to help eachother not rag on eachother respect is very important in any aspect of life and that's why I do very well in life and am very well connected in the business I conduct if you would like to post something of value on my thread it would be appreciated if not please don't bother now for everyone else and without the hostility I had a friend send me a pic of the alty and it is a s4 model is there any other suggestions on what I should do to try and make a s4 work as is well to stop having them blow maybe a step by step test to find out what's ruining them ?

^ I would have read if you had bothered to use any punctuation to assist me in reading your paragraph long run-on sentence.

My advice all along has been the same, using even a little grammar will make it easier for people to help you out.

the plug on the back is the obvious clue
the T shaped plug is s4,, top of the T is the IG switched field wire

the better plug with the weather seal and the parallel pins is s5
,, usually the pin closest to the B+ is the field wire that needs to go to the battery for filed switch
( but not always on some remans or cosmo alts )

the L wire will help the alt switch on at low rpm
it is not entirely necessary,, many old school conversions will lack it,, and charge fine for years
if this connection is missing ,, you rev the motor and it will turn on

s4 will come on around 1800 rpm,, the s5 tends to be 3000 rpm
once it is on,, it is on,, and they will be maintaining 13.8 - 14.5 V without further issues


if you find you have s4 alt now on the s5/6 wiring,,easiest place to establish instead a new ig switched feed from is the L coil test plug

Very good bumpstart so basically I need to make sure the top wire of the t goes to my battery and the lower wire to my dash light ! Nice now if you have any idea what a extra wire going to the charging lead might be I can't find a reference to one anywhere I'm almost thinking it may be the wire from the top of the t sent through the harness a foot and connected right there instead of the battery !

Howboutthataftertwentyfourpostsyoufoundoutbhapstan cethatyoUhaveaseriesfouralternaorandnowyoudonthave thesensetoreadposttwentyfourwhichshowshowaseriesfo uralternatoriswiredgoawaynowifnotsooner

IF you have T plug on the alt,, the top of the T must be IGNITION SWITCHED POWER
not the battery
( LIVE ONLY WHEN KEY REDS ARE ON )

if you DONT have a T plug on the alt,, then the closest pin to the B+ must go to battery
( LIVE 100% of the time )

the dodgy wire added to the B+ wiring was shortcutted to the field switch wire on any s5 or s6 alt added to make it work
it is STILL the incorrect place to take it from,, you MUST make the effort to find true battery DC and not alt AC

how about we just get some pics of the alternator with this fancy cell phone?

Well i will be able to post good pics of it soon my buddy is now out of town so all i have is his half butted pic he is definitely no mechanic and can barely find a alternator lol I do have my very with me and it is set up close to the same minus that extra wire I guess I could pist those for you

Thanks again jumpstart I think I might understand what i need to do now your really on the ball

Hey bumpstart I found a direct bolt on 180 amp alternator it has a thermo cutoff built in to avoid overheating in your opinion would this possibly be a perm fix without doing anything but routing that field wire It's pricey that's why I want your opinion

if you have a s5 or s6 alt already it will be plenty,, s4 alts on the other hand are very marginal on supply if you have bigger pumps and stereo

later alts can have there own differences ( like some require a PWM from the ecu ) and without seeing it directly may just be a new lot of issues
- its not just how you turn it on,, it must also mount in the original spot clear any top mount ,, and be easy to convert the pulley to s4/5

Sounds fishy. An alternator that needs a failsafe like that is being overworked and I wouldn't believe anything without seeing a load test performed at 180 amps first.

As Bumpstart said, a FD alt should be plenty for a mildly modded car. As for your question, I'm not sure a Taurus alt would work with the pulley set you have now. The FD and Taurus Alt's shafts are bigger than the FC Alt's. Japan2LA offers a pulley specifically for our cars, but it is made for using a FD alt on a FC. Unless I tried it personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that it'd work with a Taurus Alt. While the pulley I got with my FD alt worked on the Taurus alt, I've got no clue who made it since it was an ebay find

All things considered, your best bet would probably to get the pulley and a FD alt since they are proven to work properly together on a FC. I've still got the FD alt and puts out a solid 14.0 if you're interested. PM me back and we'll make a deal on it.

Thank you comet and you other guys turns out it was a three part problem from doing a little more research I found the e fan I'm using takes close to 50 amps the upgraded fuel pump takes a bit as well and who knows what the ls1 ignition takes so i just ordered a 140 amp direct fit alty ! Has the same shaft as the original fc one and same pigtails ! As I mentioned I'm still 1600 miles away from the car but i will see how it works around the 18th and will post my results thanks to all of you that tried to help me figure this out !

Ok so i got my 135 amp alternator pully shaft was slightly different but I made it fit ! So far it works but i started with a dead battery it is charging up now . I also upgrade to 24k battery terminal just in case we will see how it works out ! I'm hoping for the best now another issue is without the car overheating I seem to have too much pressure built up in my cooling system does anyone know if changing the temp of my thermostat would help relieve some pressure ?

Jesus Christ! Thats the longest run-on sentence I've ever seen!

Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. In post #32 above I thought I did a bang up job unequaled by anybody on the face of the earth. Cheeze!:):)

Big 140 amp alty did the trick still having the charge light coming on so I will be re soldering ecu as per your directions thanks you guys