Another Shifter Bushing Question
 

My shifter is sloppy, so I figured it was time to put new bushings in. I ordered the upper and lower bushings with both springs from Mazdatrix as well as a new inner boot. (It turns out the previous inner boot was completely gone.)

The installation wasn't hard thanks to the instructions on Mazdatrix's website. The problem is that the shifter is still pretty sloppy. The only difference is the resistance to moving when in gear is higher, and I believe that has to do with the new inner boot. I was kind of hoping that the shifter would be more firm.

Is it possible that I missed something easy?

I got all the old bushings and springs out of the shifter hole and snapped a spring onto the upper and lower bushings and installed as described on the site.

Could this be the shifter itself (the car does have 220k miles on it) or something with the transmission? I've read on other threads that the Mazdatrix short shifter is tight, but I'm not sure if I want a short throw, I just want a tight shifter.

Thanks.

When I did mine it was 'like new' for a couple weeks. Then it went back to the way it was. (Engagement into gear was improved still).

I think you are talking about the stiffness when its in neutral right?

Yes and no. I'm talking about the stiffness while in gear. I can move the shifter around in all directions in gear (i.e. while in 1st, I can move it to make it look like it's in 5th)

It is more stiff in neutral now, but only because of the new inner boot.

Basically everything is a little stiffer, but it has the same sloppiness, if that makes sense.

that doesn't sound normal... you sure all the bushings are in right... because when i did mine it felt really snug until it breaks in... i would recommend the mazdatrix short shifter my buddy has one and its a really short throw and feels solid. the only problem with all short shifters is the rattle noise. yours might or might not have it.

Short shifter= worth the risk

Did you also replace the bushing that is in the shifter itself where it hits the linkage?

Not sure which one you are talking about. I replaced the the upper and lower bushings with the blue and white bushings respectively with the springs attached.

Are you talking about this one?

http://www.mazdatrix.com/pictures/g-...92BotBushS.jpg

yep that one can cause slop as well, i'm gonna replace that and the centering spring in my T2 trans before i do the swap.

:wallbash: How difficult is it to put this one in?

I don't remember seeing this one. So I guess the end of the shift lever sits in that white hole?

I ment the grove bushing on the notched part of the shifter itself

OK I definitely remember not seeing the groove bushing down there.

Even worse, I'm not sure how the groove (or the lower bushing for that matter) go in. :(

i believe you just push it on... it makes a hell of a difference, make sure your rubber part of your stock shifter is okay too... eh.. just get a mazdatrix ss, its the best thing ive ever got.. next to my arc ti shiftknob ;] lol....

This bushing
http://www.mazdatrix.com/pictures/g-...ShiftBush2.jpg
goes into the large ball of the shifter which you can see here in this Mazdatrix SS
http://www.mazdatrix.com/Pictures/g-...rtShifterb.jpg
When I redid my shifter bushings I found my lower bushing and spring were completely gone, the groove bushing had the corner busted off, and no spring on the top bushing. Some of that may have been due to the jerks that were supposed to rebuild my trans last year, but got me yet another junkyard trans because the couldn't figure out how to get the parts they needed. (Looooooong story)

Yes, 89-91's use the bushing shown in post #7, which just presses into the block that is at the end of the shift rod in the tranny. You don't take out the block to do this, so it's not hard to do.

Didn't know about the bushing that goes into the groove in post 13, but I'm not an S5 guy... :)

OK so you are saying that this bushing

http://www.mazdatrix.com/pictures/g-...92BotBushB.jpg

goes right up under the return spring and can be just pulled out and the new one is just pushed in? What about that hole on the side?

Also, for the groove bushing, I'm guessing there should be a hole inside the grooved part of the shifter ball were this part of the bushing is inserted.

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg710x/ShiftBush2.jpg

If that's the case, it looks like that part of my old groove bushing has been broken off inside the groove . At first glance, it looks like that hole is supposed to be plugged inside the groove of the shifter.

yes there should be a hole for the peg of that groove bushing to go into, if it busted off just drill it out, it's only pastic......trust me I've already done it

OK that makes a lot more sense. I saw pictures of other shifters that had that hole plugged up, so I thought that it was supposed to be like that.

Do you think that the groove bushing (or lack thereof) is causing the most trouble with the side-to-side sloppiness of the shifter while in gear? It seems like it would since it looks like it makes that groove a little tighter, thus causing it to have less play in it. Or do you think it's coming from the bottom bushing?

LOL, I never even knew that these existed!

Do you have to order the whole thing? Or is there a part number for just the bushing? If so, I can't find it on mazdaspeedmotorsports or mazdatrix.

thats cuz you have an S4 Alex, of course now I'm curious enough to take mine apart and make sure it's there because I don't remeber what i was looking at a year ago now

The advantages just keep adding up... :)

So, stupid question, but if the S4s don't have that, what keeps the shifter from wiggling around when it's in gear? Is there some kind of metal track or something?

I just ordered bushings for my '87 T2 from Mazdatrix--I bought all the stuff it said went onto my car--the two bushings, two springs, and the inner and middle (3 piece) boots.

None of those parts seemed to have any track-like structures, so I've been kind of curious as to how they work... I guess I'll find out in a few days when I pull the thing apart, but does anybody have a simple explanation? (I spent a bunch of time looking through shifter threads, but didn't find this information.)

that bushing in the tranny track crap doesnt wear as much, its suppose to be submerge in gear oil all the time, unless u had some crazy leak there and you shift like a monster... i looked at mine before i put in my mazdatrix ss, it look.. good compared to everything else.. including the transmission...

To the OP:....is your car an s4 or s5?....the s5 shifter uses the block with the nylon insert like the one shown in post #15. According to Mazdatrix, the nylon bushing isn't available without the entire block, which is a beeeeyotch to replace. And if I remember correctly, the s4 shifter doesn't have the hole for the groove bushing like the s5 one does (I could be wrong, or backwards). Also there is supposed to be a centering spring (not the ones above and below the plastic ball bushings) that breaks or gets lost. Mazdatrix part# 17-465B-M501

http://www.mazdatrix.com/g4.htm

Check the fit of the bottom ball of the shifter where it fits into the hole of the shift shaft. If there's lots of slop, and your car is an s5, make your own bushing like I did out of brass. I actually used a bushing that came with a thermal fan clutch, but I think you could use a piece of brass or copper pipe to achieve the same result. Cut off a piece of the pipe, I think 5/8" long or so, and cut one side of the pipe lengthwise with a hacksaw or rotary cutter. Slip the piece of pipe over the bottom ball of the shifter, and then check the fit of the shifter again. If you need to sand off a little of the pipe to get it to fit into the shift shaft hole, do it. The bushing will last longer than the cheapo plastic ones that seem to "disappear" into oblivion. Mine works very well, and is as tight now as it was a year ago when I did mine. I may do a writeup of this with pics one day if I have time.

S4 is a solid shifter, has no guide bushing.

I however did believe though that the s4 uses a lower bushing, because i can tell there is stiill plenty of slop while in gear.

It's an S5. I didn't know where the groove bushing went until I started this thread. The old groove bushing on there had broken off and the tip of it is still lodged in the side of the shifter.

It seems logical to me that the groove bushing makes tighter for left-to-right movement while in gear. Needless to say, I'm going to order a new groove bushing from Mazdatrix soon.

One more thing to note: When I'm in 2nd gear, sometimes I can get the shifter to "stick" into place (i.e. no side-to-side movement). However, it's easy to "break" out of it and have it be sloppy again. Does this say anything about the condition of my bottom bushing, or is this a function of the groove bushing?

After doing all the bushings and ALL the boots my shifter definitely doesn't feel sloppy but the 2nd to 3rd shift stillfeels vague.
I wish that I could get the 7 to shift as well as my 90 Miata, that car never misses a gear.

It could very well be the bottom ball bushing. I know for a fact that an s5 shifter has tons of play in the shift shaft hole when the nylon bushing is missing. That's why I removed the play by making my own bushing. Also check to see if the centering spring is missing. It's not enough to replace just the upper ball bushings and springs and the groove bushing. All of the bushings have a role to play and they all work together to give you the right shift feel.

Yes I still have the spring. Is this going to get in my way while I try to replace the bottom bushing?

Here might be a stupid question, but here I go. Why does the spring only have one side to it? As it stands right now, when I pop my shifter in, the spring is lying to the left of the end of the shifter, resulting in a much stronger return to neutral when coming from 5th or reverse compared to when it comes from 1st or 2nd.

Is the shifter actually supposed to somehow fit in between here?

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg710x/ShifterSpringB.jpg

Seems like it would be a pain to get that ball slid in there if that's the case. Unfortunately some things have been broken, ghetto rigged/half-assed from the previous owner of the car, and I don't know how it's supposed to look :(

Because your tranny has TWO return springs.
The second one is not visible/ accessible from the shifter hole, that's all.

You've got the visible one aligned correctly.

:uh: Thanks clokker. I learn something new every day.

Maybe sometime after the Clemson game today, I'll have a look and see what I can do about making that bottom bushing. I'm waiting for the groove bushing to come in.

You'll find yourself moving the spring over to one side with a narrow pick or scribe while you insert the bottom ball/bushing. It's not difficult, just makes you want to grab another beer afterward.

I took the suggestion and made my own lower shift bushing for the small ball on the shifter. I used an elbow for copper pipe for AC refrigerent lines that cost me $2 and change. I bought it at a specialty home supply store. I could not find anything at Lowes or Ace hardware. There was some PVC pipe but I do not think it would hold up to the oil. I know it will fail when exposed to anti-freeze.

I had to do some rigging because the copper piece was not an exact fit so would still have left the shifter with some play. I cut the wall of an aluminum can. I shimmed one piece all the way around the outside of the copper. I put it in after I put the copper pipe in. It was difficult to get in with the spring having to be held back at the same time. I also used a piece of aluminum folded over to make it double thick on the inside of the copper pipe. I am not happy with the aluminum on the inside because it seems like too much of a rigging job but it took out a good bit of that last bit of play. There is only the smallest bit of play left. I am going to see if I can find a better alternative to the aluminum being used on the inside. I may try to make my own bushing out of brass if I can find a good OD or I may get some thin brass to shim on the inside.

I also used the Mr.Gasket shift boot which saved me about $50 versus the Mazda part. I did not have a drill on hand to modify the metal plate that came with the boot so I cut the old rubber boot to seal around the outside.

The photo of the copper pipe is after I cut the end I used off. I had to cut it a little shorter after that.

Here are some really good links. I think with the following links andthis thread combined, this thread would make a good candidate for the archives since there is no info in ther for the bushings.

There first link is a good write up and the second link is Mazdatrix version. The 3rd link has a trail of links in it that can bring you to the write-up on the MR.Gasket shift boot.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/diy-shifter-bushings-637191/
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/shiftbsh.htm
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hlight=shifter

^ very good info.

I have just a few questions on this...

1. So basically, to find the right fit for the bottom ball of the shifter, you just inserted the ball into different sized pipes to make the tightest fit possible? Is there such a thing as too tight? Also, the purpose of the aluminum on the outside of the pipe is to make up for the slightly smaller diameter of the pipe resting inside the larger diameter of the hole, correct?

2. Did you use something like a string to hold back the spring while inserting the bushing + aluminum?

3. What tool(s) did you use for cutting the pipe? Hopefully nothing really fancy since I don't have access to good tools right now.

I am glad you appreciate the info. The problem is there are so many threads that do not answer the full question.

The tighter the fit the better as long as the lower ball is able to move freely. The ball is also going to be submerged in gear oil once you fill it back up so there will be some lubrication.

I did not have anything to measure the diameter of the hole so I found that the large end of a 1/2" Craftman ratchet extension just fit in the shifter housing. I took the extension and the shifter with me to find a pipe that with the same outer diameter as the extension and let the shifter ball fit inside.

That is exactly what the aluminum is for. Any play in the bushing will be felt greater at the shift knob.

I used a pick to hold the spring out of the way and it was a pain. I think the spring may have bent a little because I think it may not push back on the shifter as much but the shifter is so much tighter now it is would be hard to tell.

I would recommend a hack saw to cut the pipe. I only had my Dremel tool on hand so it made the job harder than necessary.

My philosophy: Good tools are worth there price in time and aggrivation. Never buy cheap tools and borrow what you do not need much. If people can share their tools, then everyone the community is wealthier. A penny saved is a penny earned. Buying chinese is like throwing your money in the trash can.

I attached an image of the empty housing.

Update:

I just made my own out of some leftover PVC pipe. It turned out to be a perfect fit!

The diameter of the bottom shifter ball is ~ 18mm.
The diameter of the housing that the ball sits in is ~22mm.
The depth of the housing is ~ 16mm

The shifter is much much tighter now, and the driving experience is that much better.

Thanks for everyone who gave their input. Seems like a lot of threads don't mention the bottom bushing, and this one has more complete approach to correcting the shifter bushing problem.

I found that PVC pipe that fit well also but I did not think it would have a long life in the transmission. I found 2 reasons which would also suggest it is a poor choice for a material. I read that heat has a negative affect on the PVC by causing certain components of its make up to volatize(evaporate). This probally explains why the PVC pipe I mentioned in an earlier post failed after a couple months of beingi used a a heater core bypass. Chemical reactivity to the coolant is also possible. It also seems that PVC is not overly inert to organic or oil chemicals. "Special "Oil Resistant" (PVC-OR) grades of PVC are also available that possess a high resistance to oil and other organic hydrocarbon attack."

Copper and aluminum cans may not be the very best mateial for use(I doubt nylon is either since it does not seem to be capable of lasting even 15 years) but I would recommend using something other than PVC.

My brother has picked up jewelery making as a hobby and has mentioned casting my own from brass. I have cast lead before but I may look into this further.

Yeah I don't think it will hold up for an extended period of time. However, it is a temporary (and much welcomed) fix until I can find something better. I couldn't find anything really close to a match with a piece of brass or copper.

I will keep looking for a better alternative. In the meantime, I guess I cut me off another piece of the pipe every so often. :dunno:

Finding a brass sleeve that fits it would seem to be a better, longer lasting solution.

Edit: Oops, didn't notice how old this thread was, I got all caught up in reading it :D

I have some updates:
After 2 years and 20,000 miles the aluminum I used to shim the inside of the copper pipe has broken.

I purchased the mazda part but I do not know of anyway to remove the plastic sleeve with out likely breaking it. . I do not consider removing the transmission an acceptable option to replacing the entire metal piece.

The Mr. Gasket shift boot did not hold up to the heat or oily environment. It became hard and cracked open. I do not recommend this modification since it did not even last 2 years.

I plan to see if I can machine some brass into a sleeve that will work perfectly. This is something that I will have to do at work. I am also going to buy the Mazda middle shift boot.