About to dive headfirst into a S/C Project M90 Style . . Info please
 

I read alot about what zbrown did with a eaton M90, and i'm poor and dont feeling liek swapping my whole drivetrain, so . . i'm buying an Eaton M90 off a friend, and i have a specific way i want it set up, it might sould impossible or stupid, but pease keep it positive and try to help me out here
I want to mount the supercharger in the same area as zbrown, btu i might want to mount it with the exit port facing a different direction becasue i'm going to use a front mount intercooler, i know its probably not necessary but i want to. Due to this i want to use turbo intake manifolds, and this is that part thats stumping me the most . . .
Can i make the manifolds work with my existing setup? Could i take just the top part of the manifols and make an adapter so it fits to the lower intake manifold? i want to keep my fuel system mostly stock for the beginning of this project until money becomes more plentiful. How would i set up the injectors? So what i'm looking for is way to mount the trottle body on the opposite side so i can't run a full loop of intercooler piping and what not, and it looks like it'd make the job a bit cleaner. Then i can just pipe everything like a turbo. I'm thinking tp bypass valves, and an HKS SSQ BOV and a manual boost controller maybe too . . . sound dumb, i dont care i think i can really make this work, and once more money is involved i'll probably setup a Haltech and low compression rotors if possible, extreme experimentation, woo
Seeing what zbrown acheived i'm sure i can make what i want work for around $1000 (for the basic on the regular rotors and ECU, not low compression haltech setup)

I've never dealt with superchargers before, so my comments may sound stupid, but do superchargers even use BOV's and boost controllers? I thought it was just belt driven and the spin on it was controlled by the size of the pulley it used. I guess a BOV might make sense, but if the SC slowed down with the engine i dont know if that would be a problem or what. Are these dumb comments or what? lol

no, actually people who ask questions are smarter, and become smarter but anyways samethign as with a trubo, all that pressure has to go somewhere, and to control the amount of boost its usually the pulley size that depicts the level of boost, larger pulley=less boost but i'd also liek the be able to chang the bosst without changing pulleys makes sense to me

there is a sort of bypass valve in the blower, so when the throttle slams shut between shifts, there isnt a ton of pressure acting on the blower.

intercooling is not necessary, but i guess it would yield more hp, and if you decide later on that you want to go low comp rotors + stand alone, the intercooler would work awesome, espescially with a twin screw. Whipple uses twin screws and is as effecient -- compressing the air with minimal heat -- as a turbo.

but as far as making power goes, the turbo cant be beat.

but a turbo cant give you instant throttle response :)

as far as controlling boost without changing pulley wheels, ive given this some thought, i think it could be done with a smaller version of the CVT (nissan murano, and recently some ford vehicle, cant remember the model)

i wonder if you could have a full time pressure regulator of some sort, like on a air compressor, that could bleed off excess boost pressure. size the pulley wheel small to begin with for max boost, and bleed off to desired boost pressure.

i dont know, im just thinking out loud.


--mike

No. The Turbo's secondary injectors are mounted in the LIM, the NA's are mounted in the UIM. So if you use an NA LIM and Turbo UIM you'd have nowhere to put the secondaries.

Although I think it's a very poor way to do it, you can adapt the Turbo LIM to the NA block with a bit of porting of the secondary runners. I wouldn't do it, but it's a solution.

zbrown's setup is absolute garbage. Don't even think about trying to emulate it. :)

Whatever you do, leave space to install the throttle body at the INTAKE of the supercharger. That way, you don't need multiple bypass valves and other hackjob parts.

There have beem multiple threads on using the TII manifolds on the NA engine. It will be a major hassle to use the TII upper on the NA lower.

Not at good idea. At the minimum, 4 x 550CC

Mount the throttle body properly, and you don't have to waste time and money on band-aid bypass valves. Also, a boost controller is of no use with a supercharger.

ok thanks, intercoolers still a good idea though right?

Always.

Sweet
^ I was looking at your webpage today, your cars been hit way too much, bad luck man, i guess the more time you put into your car, the more people fuck it up

ok this is something I am looking into as well. So with a haltec and a large street port and low comp rotors and highest boost possible on one of these m90s what kind of power output am i looking at with full exhaust and intake and all??

Why low comp rotors? With a haltech and enough fuel you should easily be able to tune it to be completely safe with higher comp n/a rotors. I mean jeez people are running all over the place with turbo'd n/a's and doing fine :p: (somewhat sarcastic but there are enough people doing fine with it to give it merit).

I'm yet to see someone do a roots-type blower installation correctly... why is everyone so obsessed with using the M90?

I've got a EAton M112 setup laying around, completely with throttle body and intercooler, that I personally think would make a for a far superior system after welding up a new LIM.

ok why would you need a new lower intake manifold and what exactly was wrong with zbrowns setup if someone could inform me in short.

Look at the output for an M112 and you'll see why.

What was wrong with z-brown's set-up? Everything.

Here's a comparison between the flow rates and power comsumptions of the eaton models: http://www.automotive.eaton.com/prod...rgers/M112.asp

i like eaton M90's just the way they are. The ideal setup in my head is to plumb it out like a turbo with all the valves and the intercooler and what not, i think it'd be a really effective setup, but it'd be a little more expensive, i guess if i could draw it out you'd see my vision but oh well, sure all the pressure valves are unecessary but i think it'd be a more sound setup, and the would be no chance at all of over-boosting my engine and id be able to set my boost without changing my pulley size, i could lower my boost for everyday driving, and turn it up when i go honda hunting

Well, to begin you're starting with a so-so charger, nothing too much great will come from it. Also, the way you're talking is going to be extremely inefficient, you'd have to mount the AFM after the charger for that to work otherwise you're dumping metered air, not to mention all the drag you're sticking on the engine for no real reason. The simple fact is, mounting it before the TB is just a bad idea and ineffective. I hope you don't expect a whole lot from this, because you're not going to get much with an M90. I've done it already (the 'proper' way), and it's nothing too impressive, any turbo car could beat it.

sounds like a cool deal, you'll probably get more power with the high compression rotors and some proper tuning. I bet a supercharged 7 would feel cool, like a n/a but with power beating a turbo II. Couldn't you just run 550cc injectors and keep both of the n/a manifolds? Run the pre-intercooler pipe right with the aft-intercooler pipe because then the supercharger's compressor outlet would be right under the n/a's throttle body, right? Don't you want to run a slight retard on the timing, or just the increase from 87 to 93 octane would be good enough to prevent detonation? good luck

The reason everyone looks at the M90 is because a Thunderbird SC is the right configuration and it's cheap. An M90 will also support about as much HP as you are likely to get out of an Rx7. An M112 will never be used in it's upper range on an Rx7 and although it will be a little more efficient you probably won't be able to measure the difference. An M112 is longer and will be a little more difficult to fit alongside a 13B. Not to mention a lot more expensive.

MBROWN's setup is ghetto but it works cheaply. It's very inefficient but it does work. A turbo doesn't mind blowing into a closed throttle but a roots blower hates it. A turbo would need very good oil seals to suck through a throttle but a roots blower won't have those problems.

I own a factory supercharged Toyota MR2 so I have been familiar with this setup for quite a few years. It uses an intercooler and works quite well. Right now I have too many cars but I would love to supercharge an Rx7 (my racecar rules don't allow it). A turbo manifold opens up a nice space for the supercharger but modifying a 4 port manifold to fit on a 6 port engine seems way too dificult to me.

ed

Your calculations are wrong, I tried to tell you this before. The m90 doesn't move enough air for 400HP on a 2 rotor.

Zbrowns setup was ghetto indeed, and it may have worked, but at what cost? You have a constant drag, you'll also wear the coating off the charger rotors due to all the backpressure that's constantly there.

I've done it, so I know. :)

yeah ok, well how do you suggest setting up manofolds?

It's up to you really, I mounted it ontop of the block, and just built my own custom upper manifold, and had the TB wrap around on the passanger side.

I'm not a supercharger expert, but the M90 isn't really the best low-price Eaton out there. My buddy has a Thunderbird SC and pulled his M90 to drop in the newer "S-Type" (called the MP90 I think?) supercharger that uses different lobes, a better plenum, and I think he said the whole thing is highly polished from the inside as well. It did make a good bit of difference in his vehicle over the M90 and he bought it off some enthusiast for ~$250 in good shape.

im hijacking i have a full thunderbird supercoupe (parts car) 3000 miles on the supercharger... ooh and my inefficient blower put out 14 lbs:-P at 4000 rpm. silly folks

why dont you consider searching?