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-   -   6 Port Turbo: The quickest way possible (https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/6-port-turbo-quickest-way-possible-990170/)

sharingan 19 03-06-12 01:16 AM

6 Port Turbo: The quickest way possible
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I'll skip the sad narrative but long story short the engine in my TII decided to die after 147,000 faithful miles. Unfortunately it decided to do so while out of town. So I was faced w/ a tough choice, pay $350+ for a tow home or tow it to a local shop for free...:scratch:

Option 1: Tow it home, order a rebuild kit to finish the engine I've been slowly gathering parts for. This means spec-ing all the parts, purchasing and waiting on a rebuild kit in addition to the two. $$$$

Option 2: Tow it to the shop. Source a TII engine pay for a swap. $$

Option 3: Tow it to shop. Source N/A engine, swap turbo parts. pay for swap $

Tried sourcing a local running TII engine but that proved to be problematic. Meanwhile n/a engines seem to be almost falling out of trees after scouring craigslist, the forum and ebay. I figured I could pick one up for what the tow would have cost.

I found an s4 n/a within 2 days for twice that much however it had a recent (15k) rebuild and was still in the car for test drive/ inspection. Problem was I had no way to transport it the 80 miles from Orlando. Solution; I met a guy w/ an FC, 3 days earlier and his transmission was destroyed by an unbalanced drive shaft the day after my engine blew....he had a truck and wanted to buy the trans that came with the engine...woot!

sharingan 19 03-06-12 01:28 AM

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Dropped the S4 n/a off at the shop. While I was there I explained my plan to the mechanic, he was nodding his head with a " you can't do that" look on his face.

In addition to a 12a P-port Toyota Starlet (that apparently runs 10's all motor) I found this little beauty....

sharingan 19 03-06-12 02:06 AM

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So while waiting for my engine to be pulled I set about acquiring the items I would need:

Modified TII LIM
I have an S4 upper so I needed an S4 lower, I would have preferred an S5 LIM since the ports are larger, but I could not source an S5 UIM so I picked up an extra S4 LIM and filled the voids w/ JB Weld. It would have been cheaper to just mod the LIM on my engine, but if I had waited until the engine was pulled it would have cost me an entire day of productivity modding it.

Oil Feed Line
The S4 oil pressure port is 1/8 bsp. I have a male bsp --> female npt adapter that came with my aftermarket pressure gauge. From there I have a female 1/8 npt "T" the oil pressure sensor occupies one port the other has a 1/8 npt --> -3an 90* adapter. The line is a 36" -3an SS braid w/ female fittings. At the turbo I have a standard t3 flange with a straight 1/8 npt --> -3an adapter (would have liked a 45* bend but they were out).

All of this (except the turbo flange) was purchased at a local hose shop AmazonHose.com

Oil Return Line
Swapping the TII front cover allows the use of the stock oil return lines.

Coolant Feed line

I have retained the thermowax in the TB so I am using the outlet nipple on of it for the coolant feed line. Ideally I would have had a custom banjo bolt fitting made that would mate with a compression fitting on the stock outlet nipple. What i will actually run (for now) is a wrapped rubber hose clamped onto a cut stock coolant hardline.

Coolant Return line
Swapping the turbo WP/housing allows the use of the stock turbo coolant drain. I will also take this opportunity to tap the housing for my coolant temp gauge sender (1/8 npt).

I would like to get a stock TB to run with the 6PT setup so I can rig the secondary throttle plates (a la Bumpstart) to respond to boost and obtain some semblance of low end drive-ability. Unfortunately I don't have time for that now, so I'll save that for when I get home and install my n/a throttle cable at the same time.

sharingan 19 03-08-12 02:09 AM

Stopped by the shop, and decided to disconnect everything so there would be no excuses for any delays in getting the old engine pulled. And Sso they didn't accidentally damage any of the aftermarket wire connections.

Knocked out the LIM porting and realized I was going to need a set of gaskets, so I made some, I don't know if I'll ever buy another stock gasket now.

Since I had the TB off, I decided to mod if for use with the n/a throttle cable as seen here. Disregard the nonsense about not being able to run the thermowax, or the dashpot, because I retained both.

Tried to find some exhaust studs to repair this turbo that's going on, Apparently finding FC exhaust studs is IMPOSSIBLE! Even mazda looked at me like I was from the moon. I really don't want to have to tap the turbo for a stud that someone actual manufactures, but I'm running out of options.

sharingan 19 03-09-12 07:29 PM

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Found the studs M10 x 1.5 60 mm at NAPA, by walking around w/ a stud to compare it to.

Got the old engine out, all apex seals are toast! Whatever the problem was it was certainly thorough :lol:

Started stripping off all the accessories and components. The one hold up was the damn main pulley bolt. If I had been able to get that off I would have been able to clean and paint the cover, WP, pulleys so all that would be left on monday would be to assemble the n/a block.

As it stands I'll have to remove and clean the front of the old block and wait for that to dry before I can start assembly, best case scenario the engine should be done monday and installed tuesday.

*just realized the pics didnt upload before, so these are for the other post.

sharingan 19 03-09-12 07:56 PM

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Pics of the new s4 n/a, and the old 0 compression 13bt...

Also, I though that I had an oil leak on the old block from the o-ring on the dowel between the front iron and rotor hosing....check out the jb weld repair halfway down the front iron..... Guess thats part of the reason I got such a good deal on the car in the first place. Now it makes sense why I was never able track down that leak.

2slow4stock 03-09-12 10:56 PM

Looking good.

sharingan 19 03-12-12 12:36 AM

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Thanks, its coming along...

Finished cleaning and painting the turbo bits. The coolant feed line was modified prior to paint to accept a hose coming from the outlet of the TB. The manifold was ceramic coated previously and the coating is holding up, but since I had it out and everything else was getting painted, I figured "why not?"

Then I moved on to the pulleys , I was going to sand them for paint but after seeing how easily the old paint gave up I figured I'd waste the rest of the day w/ some sand paper and a dremmel. Not going for a polished look, more like machined....hastily. The accessory bracket was also sanded and clear coated.

sharingan 19 03-14-12 10:58 PM

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Pics from the break down of the turbo block...

Mazwar 03-15-12 02:50 PM

Looks good. I plan on doing something similar. Keep us updated

Black Knight RX7 FC3S 03-15-12 11:46 PM

nice carnage on the rotors there lol

Get a used S5 housing, ship it out to get refurbished, get a rebuild kit, port, slap everything back together and you got another engine fit for duty.

oneround1 03-16-12 12:43 AM

6 port turbo! good shit. got mine all setup. but used na intake. lol
keep it going dude.

sharingan 19 03-16-12 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Black Knight RX7 FC3S (Post 11018882)
nice carnage on the rotors there lol

Get a used S5 housing, ship it out to get refurbished, get a rebuild kit, port, slap everything back together and you got another engine fit for duty.

The only thing those housings are good for are clocks (and a saved a rotor/housing precisely for that purpose) the groves you see in the pic are only about 1/3 if the damage. The also suffered from many miles w/ 3 piece apex seals so they had a nice groove along the edge.

Assuming that they were not junk, why would I want one s5 housing and one s4? Last I checked the timing was different between the two.

I actually have a set of s5 n/a housings (w/ brand new diffusers) and s5 turbo irons and I plan to send them off and do just what you describe.

Originally Posted by Mazwar (Post 11018282)
Looks good. I plan on doing something similar. Keep us updated

Originally Posted by oneround1 (Post 11018932)
6 port turbo! good shit. got mine all setup. but used na intake. lol
keep it going dude.

Thanks, and I will...

sharingan 19 03-16-12 01:11 AM

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Improvised a little rig for working on the new engine. It worked surprisingly well except for the oil fill tube. Speaking of which...I got kicked out of the shop that I was working at. Apparently they never drained the fluids (or did much of anything else for that matter) So when I went to break down the old engine there was a little oil spill. I was told to take the engine and parts somewhere else and bring it back when it was finished so they could install it.......wait a minute, I pulled the engine, I broke down the old engine, I am converting the new engine....why don't I just borrow a lift, have the car towed home and install it myself too!?

So I called my buddy who borrowed a volvo wagon and a recycling bin and we took the engine /parts back to my house....

Black Knight RX7 FC3S 03-16-12 02:16 AM

woops, forgotten the blown turbo engine was a S4, I thought it was a S5.

Are you going to tear down the n/a engine? its going to be hard to work on it without an engine stand when assembling it back if you do break it down.

sharingan 19 03-16-12 02:19 AM

pulley/hub shenanigans
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So I had two extra S4 pulley/ hub sets, since this engine is an s4 I decided to refinish one while I waited on the shop. I attempted to install the refinished pulley on the hub that came with the engine and it wouldn't even fit over the edge....uh oh...

I lined up the bolt holes and the yellow timing mark is where the screwdriver appears in the first picture.
I then swapped on the hub and pulley from my S4 turbo engine, the yellow timing mark is shown in the second picture.
I then placed the refinished (S4) pulley on the S4 turbo hub and got the result shown in picture 3
I then attempted to install the S5 pulley I had on the original s4 n/a hub and that didn't fit either, so it must be damaged/ defective
I finally installed the refinished hub with the refinished pulley and the timing marks (pic 4) concur with the other s4 pulley/hub combo

After rationalizing my hub/pulley choice I installed the front cover.
I then had to reinstall the front cover when I realized/remembered that I didn't pry up the lock washer on the oil pump :facepalm: I also compared the oil pump from my turbo engine to the one on the n/a........they were the same. At first I thought the n/a might have had a turbo pump (afterall it did have a modified oil pressure regulator) but the lobes were closer to 1/2" than 3/4" . Oh well, it made it 150k on an n/a oil pump and i never had problems w/ oil pressure

sharingan 19 03-16-12 02:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Black Knight RX7 FC3S (Post 11018967)
woops, forgotten the blown turbo engine was a S4, I thought it was a S5.

Are you going to tear down the n/a engine? its going to be hard to work on it without an engine stand when assembling it back if you do break it down.

OH no no no. That's the entire point of this thread. I'm taking the unopened n/a shortblock and dropping it right in. The guy I bought it from said it was rebuilt 15k ago, (and as replaced the front cover, and front/rear main seals it seems he was telling the truth) so I feel fairly confident it will last for a while. A 13b short block is like a paperweight, and engine stand is whatever I feel like lifting it onto. Now once I finish the oil pan I'm going to put it on a hoist and there it will stay until it goes in the car.

Speaking of which I decided to check the torque on the tension bolts while I had the back of the motor accessible. .... good thing I did! bolts 17 and 18 (bottom two corners) were barely past finger tight, and at least half of the rest of the bolts needed more than a full turn. I followed the FSM procedure twice once at 24 ft/lbs and then again at 28ft/lbs (spec is 23-29)

I also pulled the rear stationary gear to replace that damned o-ring that fools people into thinking their rear main seal is bad (replaced that too for good measure) The o-ring was petrified, but I saw where the engine builder tried to slap some RTV around it....:lol:

sharingan 19 03-17-12 08:11 PM

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Sealed up the oil pan baffle to the block before sealing the panto the baffle and installed the banzai brace. It was MUCH easier installing this with the engine out of the car. I think the reason my pan ended up leaking the first time is because I wasn't able to apply even torque to the nuts, also it took so long to tighten them all that it was outside the "5 minute" window recommended for "The right stuff"

Prepped the block for turbo and LIM install w/ a little copper gasket spray.

Decided to check on the oil pedestal o-rings....good ting I did, they were flat and hard as rocks (similar to the rear stationary gear o-ring).

That's how I left the engine for the night....

sharingan 19 03-17-12 08:29 PM

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Since the turbo was out and the runners have already been ported I decided to tackle the backing plate with a grinder.

Pics of my solution for oil feed. 1/8 bsp to 1/8npt female --> 1/8 npt female "T" --> 1/8 npt to -3 adapter --> -3 line (3' is way too long, 2' to 2.5' would probably do) i 1/8npt to -3 adapter --> 1/8nnpt flange.

The simply cut the flange off the coolant feed pipe and bent it into place to receive coolant from the top of the TB.

For the record, install the WP before the omp lines :facepalm:

A pic of the work area...

sharingan 19 03-17-12 09:13 PM

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Refinished the flywheel and pressure plate using 150 and then 320 grit emory paper. It was installed about a year ago and there are only a few thousand miles so I didn't bother with machining. Torqued down the flywheel nut to 200ft/lbs (max on the torque wrench) and then used a breaker bar and hammer to knock it another 1/6th turn. front pulley bolt was torqued to 85 ft/lbs.

Check out the tongue on my car, lol. The stock TII throttle cable has annoyed me ever since I bought this car, and with all the supports broken or missing and no strut bar (do to the hood) it was a pain trying to keep it from contacting the alternator. So I will be replacing it with an n/a unit and now is the easiest time to do so.

So I get the engine lined up w/ the trans and slide it into place. When I step back to marvel at my handiwork I notice that the clearance between the engine and driver shock tower seems a bit tight.... :scratch: Turns out the boxed steel engine mount on the driver side was bent. It must have happened when I had my brother stand on the engine trying to torque that damn flywheel nut.

sharingan 19 03-19-12 02:24 AM

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Would have liked to make more progress today, but I spent half the day trying to figure out why my enginwas sitting crooked

sharingan 19 03-26-12 01:22 PM

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Engine is in and running, but we have hit a snag. Apparently I was sold a bad engine, as it leaks like a sieve.

I took it for a short test drive and when I got back, I noticed a hissing sound after I shut it down, turns out the heater hose had blown out. no biggie, I replaced it and had the car idling while I checked for leaks, that's when i noticed a slight drip from the passenger side.

I shut it down and looked for the leak...no dice. I cranked it up and looked for the leak, it seemed like it was just pooling in the little rectangular pool below the front primary injector :scratch: So I had my brother blip the throttle and sure enough coolant was seeping from between the center iron and front housing and trickling down into the pool.

I suspect that the leaky heater hose was the only think keeping this hunk of shit from puking all over the place, because as soon as I replaced it then the coolant leaks started.

sharingan 19 03-26-12 01:52 PM

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Today, 2 new leaks sprouted... I was under the car and I noticed coolant leaking from both sides of the block. I called the guy I bought the engine from; he said to check the w/p gasket and the nipple on the rear iron....sounds good but that doesn't explain the coolant dripping off the DRIVER SIDE of the engine.

Sure enough, after some investigation I found that coolant was literally seeping out of the block just below the spark plugs on on BOTH sides of the center iron. WTF!?

lastphaseofthis 03-26-12 02:21 PM

if it drives, take it to a welder!

JerryLH3 03-26-12 02:35 PM

That is a huge buzzkill. Have you thought about how you might proceed now?

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