20B swap...what all do i need?
 

well, i've decided the hell with haltecs and bigger turbos and all that stuff. i know that sooner or later it will all need to be pulled to feed my thirst for streetable power. so i'm not gonna buy any of it. i'm going straight for a 3 rotor. i know i need the motor(obviously) and the ECU, then i'll need motor mounts(K2RD), a freont mount intercooler, then what? will i have to have my driveshaft shortened some? can i keep my transmission? its in good shape..fresh rebuild. i have enough moola to buy all the parts and then put the 2/3's payment on the motor at corksport. then by the time they get it to me i'll have the extra grand. i can do all the work in my big garage(i have the tools and lift). i just don't know yet what all i'll need to modify to fit it.

lata guys
Jay

PS: i love it when you get money back from the government :D

87 t2...still pretty much stock

a pipe, some crack, and a lighter ...

no really, good luck man...

Not to discourage you but I was thinking of going in the same path until I found out about how much money it would cost. Do a search for 20b and you will see what I mean. The motor is the cheap part of the swap. Good luck to you though. Oh yeah Im pretty sure you have to get a new tranny.

Your tranny should be ok. You will need a LOT of things. You are gonna need 2 aftermarket computers like a Haltech, or 1 really expensive one like a Motec. None of the "low end" stand alone computers can run the split trailing on the 3 rotor. NONE. You will have to modify the core support to allow the radiator to sit forward more, to clear the crank pulley. You'll need a FMIC, and there isn't a kit- gonna have to be custom. Aftermarket flywheel, since there isn't a stock 20B manual transmission flywheel. (Light flywheel for a 13BT with the appropriate 20B counterweight- dunno if it will bolt up though...) Motor mounts. A modified hood to clear the 20B intake. FC waterpump and housing??? Dual thermostat housing??? Ask Ted about that part. BIG radiator- bigger motor, more power= more heat. Accesories (i.e. A/C, power steering, etc) will be an issue... you DO want A/C, right? Battery relocated to hatch (spare tire well??)
Probably a big single turbo- the stock ones are not that big, if you want to make big power... a 13B with a large turbo can make more power than a 20B with stock twins. Custom manifold for the turbo. Custom downpipe/exhaust. Lots of sweat and tears... LOTS of money... lots of time on the dyno to tune it, since there aren't many running around- no base maps to start out with. Good luck.

Brad

Well, first of all, you should start thinking about that EMS again, as are going to need some type of aftermarket EMS. No, you don't need to run split timing unless you need to pass emissions testing. I'm using a Wolf3D, and other people are using TECI's, TECII's, and Haltechs. I'm sure that other brands would work fine, too, but I don't know of anyone using them on a 3-rotor street car. Either way, you need something to run that EFI, and don't forget about the boost controller, coils, igniters, ignition wires, sensors, laptop computer, etc., depending on what kind of ignition/EMS combo you choose. Anyhow, not including the price of the engine, you are looking at about $2,000-4,000 here so far if you do the installation and tuning yourself, while the going rate for pro tuning on a dyno will add another $3,000 or so. Here's the rest:

Since you are starting with a TII, the mod will not be quite so painful if you stick with the 20B stock turbos and stock internals, therefore keeping the expensive go-fast stuff out of the picture.

Additional parts (easy to get):
1) Aftermarket tachometer (or be willing to put up with a 150% error on the stock tach)
2) 2-disk clutch (Quarter Master, Tilton, etc.)
3) 13B front cover with mechanical MOP
4) 13B water pump (or use a custom thermostat housing like I have with the high-flow stock pump... BTW, Scott Neville of SPiN Racing makes this part, not Ted)
5) Larger radiator & new hoses
6) Electric radiator fan (the stock fan will not fit in the car with a larger radiator)
7) Air filter
8) You don't actually NEED an FMIC, but it's a good idea.
9) Hehehe, Samps' crack pipe may be a good idea, too, as nobody in their right mind would do this conversion. :tonque:

Additional parts (custom-made or modified):
1) Balanced flywheel & counterbalance (the 20B only came in AT cars)
2) Fabricated transmission blocking plate (there will be a hole because the AT starter is different)
3) Modified Crank Angle Sensor (some people use two for split timing, depending on the EMS)
4) Gutted IC scoop interior for engine clearance (Yes, finally something EASY!!! :) )
5) Custom-made 20B engine mounts (Ted can make these for you)
6) Custom-made exhaust system (Racing Beat will sell you an exhaust flange, but you need to fabricate the rest).

No, you don't need a shortened driveshaft unless you are a stickler for weight distribution and decide to modify the firewall to mount the engine/tranny more towards the rear of the car. I would do this if I were a millionaire or a master mechanic, but since I am neither, I will tolerate the whole half-inch or so of CG shift, and pretend like I care. :)

Note that there are many ways to perform this conversion, so I am just giving you a basic list. I probably forgot some stuff, too, but I think that you will get the general idea. Also, some 20B engines are missing parts like the TID, etc., so that will mean more fabrication work.

I don't recommend a 20B conversion unless you have at least $10,000 to start with. However, if you don't mind spreading the project over several years while the car sits on blocks, then I guess you could start with less. Just keep in mind that some parts will deteriorate with time.

Hehehe, yeah, but just remember that it's YOUR money that you are getting back.

You can see conversion pics on RETED's site and on my SPiN Racing web link. Here are some FC 3-Rotor Conversion How-To Links:
http://www.se-rx7.com/20b/
http://www.cris.com/~Asam/20B.html
http://www.3rotor.com/chito.htm

Oops, scratch that for stock turbos. You will need a custom-made DP, though. I think that the stock TII catback exhaust would work with the 20B, but I'm not sure how well.

Evil aviator
 

I understand the front sway bar is an issue........how are you getting around that........custom made?

Re: Evil aviator
 

Yes, that's an issue that I forgot to mention. I'm just going to use spacers on my Eibach bar. Sure, it's going to act a differently because of the increased moment arm, but I think that the torsion rate should be the same. I'd rather do that than make one myself, as I have just enough engineering background to know that there are too many factors involved for a regular Joe to make a GOOD one himself. Besides, I'm cheap and lazy. :)

I'm interested to see what K2RD does with theirs, because unlike me, Paul actually knows what he is doing in this department. :) I guess the big question here is whether it's worth his time, and whether it can be made at a decent price.

BTW, how is your your project coming along, JET?

hmmmmm...FAWK
 

lets see here....i dream of 2 liters of fury... the awesome 3 rotor twin turbo intake manifold.... and the potential for insanity. but i'm gonna have to do this in smaller steps than i was thinking. thanks for your help guys. i'm going to get the car completely ready...then i'll make the desicion whether to keep my already well modified 13bt or to invest in another car to drive and a jap motor. :D i'm gonna live with the norm for now... its still a damn sweet car! well...i'm gonna sit back a few days and re-evaluate this plan. i'll let you guys know what i end up doing. i really really want a 3 rotor beast. BUT... it may have to wait a few more years.

lata
Jay