20B FC or FD vs skyline GTR-R34
 

which one would be faster. were having a little debate at work just wanted to know which one would be faster and better. putting the same amount of mods on both.....

Stock? The Skyline has all wheel drive, and 280bhp. The FD....US spec or J-Spec? Stock 20B, or built? Stocl for stock, my $$$ is on a R-34, unless the driver sucked.

Dunno about mod's, but there was a Japanese vehicle testing video floating around the net awhile back that showed the Nissan a bit faster in the 1/4 mile, but the RX-7 faster around the high speed test track.

I guess with equall modifications, the R-34 would still be faster. All things being equall (fuel, turbo, ECU, tires, etc..) there really is not any replacement for displacement. The RB26DETT is a 2.6L, the 20B is a 2.0L, and the FD is a 1.3L. You do the math....

a stock 20b with vs a stock skyline

Skyline all the way. All wheel drive, HICS, 280hp, race inspired suspension, 6-Speed gear box. All around ass kicker. Now, a 2001 RX-7 RS would beat a R-34 around a track though, but our less powerful US Spec FD would loose.

actually the skyline is not a very fast car, the power of a stock skyline is almost like a Supra or 3000gt.
I think a 20b FC or FD will kills a skyline easily!
I am having a vacation in HK now , I saw a skyline GTT race with a LAN EVO7 , the EVO7 is way faster than the GTT....(I have record it into my camcorder, I will upload it when I back to US)

Also, the GTT is single turbo, but who is counting??;)
What is the stock hp on a 20B? And I have a Top Gear video of a R-34 Skyline racing a McLaren F1....it is NOT a slow car. Know of many cars in the world that can pull a $1.2 Million car off the line??? Didn't think so. The Skyline is the fastest stock car built in Japan in a straight line, hands down. Ever hear of 1300hp RX-7's? No. Lots of 1000hp+ Skyline GTR's runnin around that little island...

Edit:Yes, the Supra RZ and GTO make the same hp, but last time I checked, the Supra was FR, and the GTO was a piece of Toyota crap!!;)

Are u guys serious..If u ever need a reference go watch the NHRA import drags...Even in the street class last drags thier were 7 rx7s that won and only one skyline that came close..to even qualifying..Mod for Mod the 7 is faster in ever way...The skyline is like a VR4. Just because its a skyline does not mean its the fastes car in the world. Its just a skyline and they get like mid 13s stock...a third gen can get high 13s and a 20b I would imagine would kick its fucking ass.

20B did not come stock in neither the FC3S or FD3S...
This discussion is a waste of time, as why are you comparing engine swaps versus a stock vehicle?
Those RB26DETT's can be modded to over 1200hp (Veil Side Evolution III).&nbsp The 20B has barely seen over 1,000hp (several drag 20B's).&nbsp The complex AWD will smoke the RWD car in almost every performance category.&nbsp With power levels like this, the chassis weight becomes a non-issue.

Reliably (i.e. streetable) power between the RB26 and the 20B is about 600-800hp.&nbsp The cutting-edge technology of the R34 makes the performance edge moot - the Skyline GT-R R34 wins hands down.


-Ted

I think the RX7 RZ holds the record lap time at Tsukuba for stock cars. Im not sure on that one but RX7s are definetly dominating in the in the most recent Tsukuba challenge, with the Axia RX7 edging out the Cyber Evo for quickest time.

A Mazda RX-7 & a Nissan Skyline are two wives I wold never pick over one another. I love them both & I think you should equally upgrade them both. FYI, I don't know much about them but if you know what you are doing to your car.

would make for one hell of an afternoon of testing and racing to find out which was quicker ;) even if this is really pointless :D

Alright, to start off this argument, the R-34 GT-R mind you, would smoke the stock 20b and FD plain out. And no it wouldn't matter on drivers; put any dumbass that can shift in a R-34 and you can just rev it past redline, dump the clutch and the ETTESA system takes over and disperses the power to the wheels. ANd really how hard is it to drive strait. And finally last weekend I got to ride in one and when someone says they are fast, they mean they're FAST!!!!:eek: Anyway, my money would be on the R-34, now seriously the real competition is stock for stock, the R-34 and Lan Evo VII. Yes, don't flame me the Evo VII's suck compared to the the III and IV but ow well. Take your pick, that is where the competition is. Damn I wish we America would kick itself in the ass and allow some of these companies to bring these crazy ass cars over here. I would love to own a Lan Evo III and bye the looks of it I might in a couple of months:D ....hehehe MY SECRET!!

The 20B is a 4.0L, and the FD is a 2.6L if you want to compare them to a 4-stroke piston engine. Yes, there are many other replacements for displacement: redline, thermal efficiency, and volumetric efficiency, just to name some off the top of my head.

How do you get 2.6L from a 13B?

1308cc is from the standard definition of an engine's volume (full sweep of one piston/chamber times no of cylinders/rotors). But the rotary does this twice as often, meaning it theorectically draws the same amount of air as a 2616cc piston engine. In reality it doesn't, which is why the rotary "equivalence" factor for racing is often 1.8 instead of 2.

Any man who would say such a thing doesn't deserve a rex :D

Notice what he said: "Putting the same amount of mods on both..." If you do not beleive that 2 equally tuned engines are set side by side on engine dyno's, and one ha bigger displacemnet than the other, then the bigger one will have higher numbers.....YOU do not deserve to work on cars. Simple physics. Yes, a well tued 20B versus a stock RB26DETT would win. A equally tuned RB would win. The Skyline is also set up weight wise for that engine, the FC is designed for a 300lb 13BT, not a heavier 20B. This can be overcome by a skilled driver. But stock for stock, a 280hp All Wheel Drive R-34 GTR would dominate. The R-34 has the fastest stock lap at Tsukuba...I have the video if anyone would like to argue with me.....

So thats "theorically"!

Just in case you wanted to know...
Australian Motor mag recently put an stock R34 GT-R N1 (factory grunty version) on a chassis dyno where it put 215kW (288hp) to the wheels, making a complete mockery of the brochure's 206kW (276hp) flywheel power figure! With a 30% drivetrain loss (Aussie dyno remember) that's about 307kw (412hp)!

This is a stupid comparison if I have ever seen one. First let me say that Skylines aren't as fast or nimble as everyone would lead you to believe. About a month ago on the Chuo Expressway going around C1 some punk ass in is Blue R34 started to race me............hahahaha. (i love it when that happens) My 13B with a High Flow turbine stomped his ass sooooooo hard. And the funny thing he kept trying and when it came to the curves I had to slow down 3 times just to let him catch up. Had I had a 20b.......OH GOD well if I didn't crash trying to control the beast ...... well no doubt it would have been awesome.

I realize some of this is driver, but They just aren't that fast!! All of you have seen some video of a R34 racing something first the japanese don't put a complete stock car in a video very often. Even if they say its stock it probably isn't. Nissan in my opinion makes some of the weakest parts for their cars and they tune 0 overhead into their engines...which means hard to make power without mad fuel and strength upgrades, especially in the skyline cars.

The RB20, 25 and 26 all have the same block(piece of shit) the only difference in the engines are the heads and the stroke with the RB25 undoubtedly having the best head. Yes a lot of people have spent their life savings making 1000hp GT-Rs but does that mean that the GT-R is superior-not at all. Scoot motorsports built a 712hp 13B and is now building his own four rotor edition. Imagine a 1400hp FD!! 20B engines are not as plentiful as RB26's and that is why you don't see them everyday, the other problem for 20b is engine management. Since the engine is only produced in a Cosmo you almost have to go custom to get it running.

A GT-R is a car that anybody can build but a FC3S with a 20b is not so this is really a unrealistic converstation. Without a doubt a 20b in a FC would kill any GT-R.

But, a 20B FC is not a stock car. He is asking with similar mods. So, $10k for the full 20B swap in a FC, add that to a R-34, and you say a 20B would win???

I didn't realize this was about money, but that just reinforces that this is a endless conversation. The original posts said with equal modifications not about the cost of building a 20B FC. If you were to include the cost of building the base car then you would also have to include the price of the GT-R which nissan had to build, about 30,000$. So I still think that a 20B FC is in the lead.

Ok, ok, you live there, and have more experience than me, but I am still warry about a stock 20B beating a stock R-34.

I would like to see the race myself, it would be interesting to say the least. Personally the only Nissan I would have anything to do with is a Sylvia S-14 kouki. The only thing I like about RB engines is the sound but that has a small association with being slow in my mind.:D

Heh. Man after my own heart!! I LOVE the S-13. the 14 and 15 are nasty looking, and the Blacktop is not as good as the Redtop SR20DET, IMO. Longer intake runners...but you know this!! Man, to be able to race, let alone BEAT, Skylines on a daily basis....I want to move to JAPAN!!:(

Rotary engines and 2-stroke piston engines fire their displacement (all rotors or pistons) for each revolution of the output shaft. However, 4-stroke piston engines only fire half of their displacement for each revolution of the output shaft. This is why a 1.3L rotary would be more comparable to a 2.6L 4-stroke engine. Didn't you ever wonder why your "little 1.3L" engine only gets 24mpg on its best day? :)

The 1.8 conversion factor is just a rule modifier for some racing events. Most production piston engines only have about 80% volumetric efficiency, so it' not like they can fire all of their displacement, either. The volumetric efficiency can be raised by porting, polishing, etc., so this is really more up to the manufacturer and engine builders, rather than calculations based purely on the physical dimensions of the engine. This is one of the many reasons why the smaller RB26DETT can compete with the 20B. As you see, there IS a replacement for displacement - technology.

You know, the 20B was also rated at 280ps. In fact, it seems like a lot of high-output Japanese engines were rated at 280ps. I wonder if... nah, nevermind. ;)

Yep, mandatory maximum power output for a passenger vehicle. As I understand it, it's not actually law, just a "strong recommendation" from the Japanese government. Cars like the Cosmo, GT-R, Lancer Evo, NSX, etc have had "206kW" for years, but no one believes it! :D

Ok even though I am a rotary fan, I will have to give it to the R34. Those beasts are, well, beasts out of the box and can kill ANY RX7 out there in a straight line. But then again, Mazda wasn't trying to build the fastest car out there when they conceive of the FD. It's the whole package that counts, and FD wins hands down on looks, handling, speed, and of course, "specialness".

Not so fast, skipper. I was there when a Saurus-built R33 dropped its titanium con rods on the track at Naha last year... All in all about a 2,000,000 Yen motor shot to complete shit, and built by one of mainland's best.

I ran a Y-tag R (Nismo turbines, Power FC, HKS gasket, and plenty fuel on a new motor) and tapped his ass for him -- that should have NEVER happened...

And the list goes on and on and on... The R is NOT a car "anyone" can build. The hachi-roku is a car anyone can build (and often has to!), a civic is a car anyone can build (and never should), but not the R.

Shops tune R's because it's got the best trans made for street duty and can produce great numbers -- not because they're easy. Hell, if a Minica Dangan had the tranny of the R and could produce the same power, everyone would run them instead.

If you think producing 800 horses in anything other than a farm is easy, you'd be making money doing it. Bottom line: it's the best car for the job, that's why it's so popular.

On Topic: comparing a non-stock car to a stock car = unfair comparison. That being said, "stock" hp numbers for both motors is the same (just like the EVO, Supra, etc... Japanese laws). The R has better suspension than the FC, and AWD. However, the FC is lighter (even with the 20B) so... R though 3 gears and the FC the rest of the way. Against a 20B FD... the 13B is already rated for 280, so putting in a 20B with the same numbers is pointless.

My $.02...


RM:wavey:

Do you mean Naha at Aja near the wharfs? That strip is good for nothing since the traction strips were laid down a couple of years ago to hinder racers. Or do you mean Nago which is a 150m strip? Less than a 1/8 mile is the best you can do legally there. That's the only true strip I can think of in Okinawa that can be rented out. Of course there's always Henza for the big boys...
I don't mean to bust your chops, I'm just wondering if it was really in Naha city proper. From what I can tell they've really cracked down on that stuff in the past few years on that island. But I could be wrong with my info. I live in the states after all. ;)

jerk_racer@hotmail.com

Hey dude, did you own that White FC? Zenkei right? I don't know if you remember me, but I used to own the White Vanquish FC. I think I met you at the Kinser Auto Hobby Shop. Either way I'm wondering where this race was...Can't race in Naha since the Kesatsu have been cracking down on drags/drifting. Where's Henza? That on Ekie Island?

I have a video tape that I got from Japan that shows the 99 spec FD can handle the Skyline with ease at the road course. Hell the Lancer and NSX finished faster than that. Skyline is nothing but a big 3000GT. Just because someone made it 1000hp, doesnt really mean anything.

I've raced a R32 3 years ago. I was able to beat it with a S13

Different horses for different courses.

It's retarded to simply say one car is the ultimo-supremo faster car.

When you get outrun an average of 1-2 sec a lap. I am sure other tracks wont help you much. That's like saying a Geo Metro would win if it encounters the right course vs a Mini Cooper

Im thinking we should get 3 cars together the skyline and 20b powered FC and FD and spend an afternoon of racing and timing :D then we can get some dinner and hit the streets and terrorize the local street racers :D:D:D

My bust -- I went back and read my post. I meant Nago, at the HKS drags... I didn't run in that one, but like all of them, I took many, many pics!

You're right - Aja went bust for 0-400 when they laid the strips down... Was a crying damn shame. It's still hopping for dori, however.

I agree about Henza as well -- Big dogs only -- they kicked me out once because there was a minimum HP rating of 400 to get in... :D Ahhh Henza... ran down many a RAM Garage Silvia there!


RM

My God...I can't believe that this is STILL a discussion. I am a Rotary owner that LOVES ALL CARS. I like my rex for many reasons, but hands down an RB26 can have upwards of 1200+hp with all wheel drive while a 20B in an FC...I'm still waiting to see that happen. The GT-R engine is not bullet proof...but if you were to do the same mods(not including costs)then the GT-R WILL WIN.

I hate to admit...but it's true:mad:

Ram Garage Silvia's....We always call them Ram GARBAGE...:p:

The Japanese Law requires the owner of any car rated at a higher horsepower than 280 to pay a tax. Lots of owners of Porshces and new Vettes get hit by this.

Henza..... I remember all the old school cars out there laying down the law. Ram Garage also known as dame garage What a bunch of loosers do all of thier cars still go pop pop pop all the time?


And on Topic again. Let me say that the record at Nikko circuit was held by a AE86 for a long time and it is currently held by a Sylvia. Never has a GT-R held a record there that I know of. Also Amemiya did beat Mines auto's record at Tskuba with a 57" lap time. When it comes to drag racing of course a GT-R should win but they always don't Most full tuned R's run in the 8's now and FC's and FD's run in the low 9's big deal 4wd vs 2wd.

That's some funny SH*T!!!.....and the answer is STILL yes.

Dude, it's amazing that nobody gives those chumps respect -- and people still take their cars there...

Sad...

Except that guy with the white S-12 Silvia -- that car can scoot! He's not the fastest guy out there, but he's representing with the old-school shit that nobody runs so he gets respect in my book.

Much more that that chump in the Supra. You know the one I'm talking about: 2300 in rims/tires, 4000 in brakes, 1400 in intercooler, 2500 in turbine, 10,000 in the rest of the motor, etc, etc, etc... And still stares at Wing Silvias (both the RB and the L) all the way down Henza... Oh, to have money like that...

RM:wavey:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rico05
there really is not any replacement for displacement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And any man that would say that has never owned a Big block dodge... :)...Max