200 rwhp for my N/A S4
 

yeah, I know this has been covered a bit, but i already have a few specific plans and i want to see if this could get he job done. rebuild with s5 rotors and 3mm apex seals, street port, RB race exhaust, cone filter dropped into the front bumber of an S5 front end, and a bit of fuel management tweaking. do you think i can get there and if not any suggestions. thanks guys. also this is for a drift car project so, if there are any drifters, do you think i may need a bit more HP.

Well, I dont know what its going to take to get an N/A to the 200 HP mark, since I run a TII, but from a drifters standpoint, its alot of fun to drift an N/A. Power is more instant then waiting for a turbo to spool. I find myself reluctant to lift the gas on my TII, so I use left foot braking alot more.

There is a misconception out there that you need alot of power to drift. There are a few pro drifters with less than 200 hp, so even if you don't get to the 200 mark, you can still drift your car.

If your staying NA keep 2mm apex seals.

And you should do this once you are inside of the engine...

http://community.webshots.com/album/527175054lXOfxX

I managed to put 172 to the wheels due in part to the engine building skills of my friend Smoken' on this forum, that's with a street port, s4 manifold and rotors and an SAFC. Kahren's done in the 180's with a street port, standalone. and an s5 motor. 200 is probably not going to happen dude unless you do something extreme like a bridgeport. If you really want that kind of power then just spray it. I almost did so myself until I decided it wasn't a good idea on a daily driver.

You don't need 3mm apex seals if you're gonna be all motor. Although it's a big debate, the main advantage of 3mm apex seals is resisting detonation if I understand correctly. It's highly unlikely you will detonate an N/A.

I'd say you should do a VDI swap, s5 rotors, standalone, pineapple port sleeves (couldn't hurt for $60), in addition to the exhaust you've planned.

Skip the cone filter in the s5 front end, just build a custom airbox. You won't have any money for an s5 front end anyway if you actually want to make that kind of power. If you do alot of drifting you're gonna want a new differential mount while you're at it.

Getting near 200 is going to make this car a bigtime money pit, so be prepared. That's why few bother to do it N/A.

3mm is a waste of time on an NA.

You really need to get rid of the stock ECU, period.
You need to know how to install and tune a stand-alone EMS.
Get back to us when you figure this out.


-Ted

It you want really want a 200rwhp NA, you shouldn't be messing around with manifolds that where designed to make 130rwhp with a broad spread of torque.

But you didn't mention the big disadvantage of using 3mm seals... the added frictional losses.

Something that you really don't want on a non turbo

Please elaborate for my curiousity.

If you're building a drifter, the only engine mods you should focus on right now should be reliability mods. Save the money for suspension mods, a good LSD, and for when your ride breaks.

Edit: And tires. Lots and lots of tires

what he means is it would require a custom manifold, one for air volume not velocity and volume combined for a streetable car. it is tough to get over 200RWHP out of an n/a, most of which is time spent on tweaking things to try and squeeze more power out of it.

if i were you i would build the highest power output engine you could with what you are given but i wouldn't expect to hit 200 or over with any factory produced parts without major modifications.

Whats a stock S5 N/A making at the wheels?

If you want high peak power, you should be using an inlet manifold optimised for that, i.e. not the stock manifold. It amazes me to see guys shooting for high NA power figures while still strangled by the stock manifold. I don't remember seeing anyone hit an honest 200rwhp with it.

You want something like this, except replace the Weber and distributor with an IDA-style TB and aftermarket EMS.

i can't believe they plopped that ugly ass generator on that motor.

haha

that alternator looks antique!

holy ww2 alternator..@@!!@

hmm so what does a stock s4 n/a engine put to the ground, and whats a stock s5 n/a engine put down?

about how much power at the wheels would the stock manifold be good for?

It's a late-model rebuild (race-prepped BP) for an RX-3 race car, hence the old alternator that was already in the car. Rebuilds don't come with nice new alternators y'know...

Er, Kahren's stock port car made 180HP with a custom exhaust, intake manifold, and a standalone

He had a customers car dyno at 195 with s5 rotors and exhaust/TII intake manifolds. He tuned it with a safc.

His latest dyno was 190 or so on a 9.0 compression TII/NA motor (no turbo) with a standalone.

I agree that it's going to be extremely hard to do 200 with the stock manifolds (N/A manifolds), but change those out and I don't think it'd be "that hard" at all. I think it's really all in the tuning, I've always liked the approach that Kahren has taken (before I knew who he was of course) of just adding a very healthy dose of timing and "dumping" more fuel. You can't really make power w/o fuel so it's just not really smart to always think to lean out the engine some (like most people usually think/thought in the past on this forum).

Okay bottom line I think it's extremely possible (shit...I think it could be possible to do it on stock manifolds also...just pretty damn hard) to hit 200 whp it's just gonna take more effort than most people usually wanna put forth.

whats the point in having the engine polished then.

this is pretty much the same project i have goin on.....an 88 gxl N/A drift car. believe me you can make some rediculous power for cheap, these cars are very rewarding as far as making power for the dollar. just expieriment and do your research and i'm sure that you will come up with something that you're proud of, and i'm sure it'll get a little sideways once you're done.
you can read my mods on my myspace; they're in the about me section. http://www.myspace.com/levitrujillo

WRONG!
All your myspace page says is that you just got your car, and have an MR2 intake.
You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Another question: do you really even WANT a really peaky powerband for drifting? My drifting knowledge and experience comes from, um, doing donuts in my beater.

What he's looking for power-wise is going to take a shitload of time and money. It's likely he'll never have any resources left to make a drift car. This is why I was saying he should forget all about an s5 front end... that's loot he'll need to throw into more important stuff.

why dont you read the whole thing

MR2-Intake, Exhaust, Falken Azenis....... RX-7-Dual Exhaust With Custom X Pipe, Ported Throttle Body, Short Shifter, Mazdatrix 9lb Flywheel, Exidy Clutch, A/C Removed, ACV Blockoff Plate, EGR Blockoff Plate, Falken Ziex

duh.

his does not have an mr2 intake on his car

but i still dont think rx7s are "good bang for the buck"