jjwalker

That blip in voltage is perfectly normal and you'll never get rid of it, When the load appears, the alternator has to adjust the field current to compensate and that isn't instantaneous. The reason this has a direct effect on the ignition system is because ignition system output voltage is directly proportional to charging system voltage.

A CDI box would mitigate the issue slightly while you gain few horses, but is a load on the charging system.

You could use a 2 farad capacitor to supplement the charging system when a sudden load appears but this approach is just a band aid. It would pretty much get rid of the issue but capacitors are yet another load on the charging system. The capacitor has to be charged any time voltage changes on the system, thus producing even more load on the charging system on top of the alternator adjusting field current to supply the new load. It makes the issue invisible but makes the alternator end up doing more work in the long run, so I don't recommend it.

On some newer vehicles (mostly 2007+) the voltage regulator is tightly controlled by the ECU. The ECU samples the system voltage thousand of times per second and you don't have any issue. The reason they tied the ECU to the charging system is due to the very minute effect voltage drops can cause on emissions. The voltage regulator in any alternator you could put into an FC has a "dumb" voltage regulator. It can't respond nearly as fast as the microprocessor in an advanced ECU can.

DeaconBlue

iTrader: (31)

That was done mostly to minimize as much as possible the mechanical load on the engine to help with CAFE mileage ratings and to insure a more constant voltage to help with all the electronics, controllers, modules and their CAN bus systems found in a modern vehicle.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

What you are both seeing is the effect of a voltage regulation system called Load Response Control (LRC). This is a more modern way of limiting the rpm drop and potential stalling of a 'weak or small engine' due to increased alternator torque caused by increased electrical load at low engine rpms. This control method tends to smooth out current output and therefore alternator load.

Here is how it works:

A short transient voltage drop (such as the in-rush current demand that occurs when a cooling fan kicks on) may be past before the alternator even responds to the load. In theory, that fan starting current should be provided by the battery, not by increased alternator output. In this case, the voltage will drop, recover slightly after the motor starts, then recover fully when the LRC allows the voltage to ramp to accommodate the fan running load.

LRC has a specific timed delay from the onset of the electrical load (identified by voltage drop) to the beginning of the voltage increase ramp. The ramp rate is also time specified. Typically the time delay and the ramp time are the same value. So if the time delay is for example, 2 sec, then the ramp is 2 sec. The voltage response you see in this case could be as short as slightly over 2 sec or as long as 4 seconds.

LRC is only enabled at certain, low speed operation. I do not know the actual time delay or the rpm specs on the Contour oem voltage regulator.

Old school way was using the BAC valve to maintain rpm and allow the alternator to just grunt it out. The newest way is to have the PCM step in to regulate voltage.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Pretty close to my measurements.




Taurus fan, high speed





Taurus fan, low speed

djSL

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the detailed responses. Based off the information provided, I think I'll just richen up the fields in my voltage correction map around the 13-13.5 volt area to prevent the lean condition I'm experiencing. Thanks all!

rotorhead_izzy

iTrader: (36)

So this weekend I permanently wired up the high speed on the taurus and noticed with the fan going, heater o, full blast and lights on I was dropping to voltage quite a bit like others as well. Looks like I'll have to richen up my map when my fan is commanded on. Or just bump the idle up since its only an issue at idle. Or I could wire low speed back up on the fan.

Switchblade5984

So.... what is the best upgraded alternator for an s5 NA, as the contour Alternator does not fit due to the intake manifold(no room for adjustment/bolts)!.... its been a fun day. so best drop in replacement?

was only pulling about 10v, as for the connections, s5, both wires go from the contour wiring, one large red wire, to the large wire on the FC harness, one green wire to the smaller wire on the FC harness milled wire goes back to the alternator.
Large red wire seems to be the voltage sensing wire.

Tinkered with it some more.... still not getting over 12 volts, (Alternator was tested at autozone before install)

I got the pulley lined up better... still squeals a little.

DeaconBlue

iTrader: (31)

I personally installed the 100 Amp unit from the FD along with the Banzai Racing mount and a billet aluminum V-belt pulley on my S5 FD. It is a bolt-in, plug-in swap. I also upgraded the wire running from the alternator stud to the main fuse block from the factory 6ga cable to 4ga cable to better handle the higher output from the alternator.

Pictures and notes here;

Ohio Rotaries ? View topic - My '90 GXL

If you need more than 100 Amps, you can always get a custom wound higher output unit made using the FD case so fitment should not be an issue. For example there are 160 Amp and 200 Amp units for sale on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...utput&_sacat=0

jjwalker

Just 2 months ago I got a reman alternator due to urgency from orielly auto parts. What a piece of ******* junk. It died today and my battery also died and I barely made it home. My charge light didnt come on until a block from my house and noticed my volt gauge showed 8 volts.

So now I need a new alternator and battery...piece of **** oreilly crap.

Logitikes

Has anyone tried using this with a mazdaspeed strut bar? Also how much would you charge if you were to put everything in a kit for me jack? Thanks.

Craze8

All remains are hit or miss. I got mine with a limited lifetime from advance. 2 months later the front bearing was gone allowing the internals to slide back and forth. There response?

"Oh well. This one only has a 90 day warranty. Have a nice day"

Id rather buy oriellys or fisher/federated

jjwalker

After 3 tries I think I finally got a gem.

It looks like an FD alt with a v-belt pulley on it. Same part number and everything but the windings look completely different than an FC alt, way more of them and way tighter wound.

Dak

Sorry for the thread hijack but since your now talking about remaned stock ones I put this new one from Rockauto for a '96 Mazda 626 v6 on mine about a month ago. More Information for REMY 94409 Just had to swap the L shaped B+ terminal to the straight one from my stock one and it's plug and play( Other than the shaft is the same dia. as the FD alt. I used the dual belt pulley from Mazdatrix for now). Only 90 amps though. Has a 1 year warranty. So far so good.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

The latest 130 amp alternator is the Ford Contour:

cBigganz

Anyone have a top down shot directly centered above the pulleys? I'd like to see how alignment looks. I have a 3g small case alternator from a junkyard and it needed a significant amount of material taken off the front leg to get the belts aligned. Was probably about 5mm out before my adjustments.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Regarding the Contour 3G large frame alt.

The small case 3G alt needed material taken off the water pump mount. The large frame does not.

I did it both ways. Originally, I used a 3G small frame (actually a 95 amp from an escort) and removed material from the water pump. Later, I changed to the large frame Contour alternator. I should have replaced the waterpump, however I used washers on the front of the mounting pulley to align the alternator with the main pulley's. I did line them up perfectly. See pictures above. Yes, there is not a shot directly from the top, but I assure you they are lined up perfect.

One warning: If you remove enough material for the 3G small case alternator, there is very little metal left between the mount and the coolant channel. I know *exactly* how much because I cut into the cooling system. I had to braze the hole to fix it. Not everyone can fix this as I did. The only recourse may be a new water pump.

Good Luck!

-Jack

smikels

Just installed 1 of these alternators. Been looking for an upgrade for a while. Car loves when everything has enough power. My A/C working better then it has been since I put this big electric fan in the car. So glad I came across this thread! Kudos! The Ford Tempo fan went in with a little work, but well worth it.

smikels

This alternator puts me over 13 volt even at idle (1000 rpm) with everything on like Fan, lights, and radio. I am impressed with it. I was able to use the belts from the old alternator and pulley setup. They seem to just barely fit. The next set of belts I get will be an inch longer to make them easier to put on.

Some things I did to make this alternator work were.
I couldn't get the nut on to secure the pulley. The threads were not out past the pulley when put on.
I dremmeled the side of the alternator and took off the lip.
i dremmeled the pulley to take the lip off there as well.
I then went to an alternator shop and they gave me a spacer to use to keep the pulley from hitting the side of the alternator so i could secure it and it would spin freely. So a couple notes to consider if you decide to go this route. There are not to many options though for more AMPS. I was about to buy an expensive alternator for like $385 from one of the places that custom build them. I paid $59 for this reman off ebay. I had bought 1 off ebay and it was only 55 amp when said it was 140 or 160 amps. I paid like $160 for this one. This had been a big headache for me ever since I put the Dorman/Taurus electric fan on that was a beast. I am quite happy with this setup and Kudos to Jackchild59 for telling us of this alternator.

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

Here's something I'm not clear on.. I see mention of small and large frame contour 2.0 alternators.. but it appears on rock auto to only be one style. Am I missing something?

The wiring is also a spot of vagueness as well.. looks like most everyone here is using this alternator on an s5.. when used on an s4, do the idiot lights all come on when you turn the ignition on ? I used to have an s5 alternator on my s4 wired up the way everyone on the forum does and the idiot lights never came on with the ignition switched on. Dont ask me why that bothers me, but it does lol

smikels

I bought mine off ebay for like $59 it did said the following. I also am posting a link just in case.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Mot...RYbq~W&vxp=mtr

Applications:

Ford Car
Contour L4 2.0L 1989cc 121cid 1995-1997

Mercury Car
Mystique L4 2.0L 1989cc 121cid 1995-1997

TYPE: Alternator
MFR: FORD
MFR SERIES: 3G
DESIGN: IR/IF
VOLTAGE: 12
AMPERAGE: 130
ROTATION: CW
PULLEY DESIGN: S6
PULLEY OD: 54
PULLEY CODE: 2254
PLUG CLOCK: 3
PLUG CODE: 332
Replaces these part numbers:

Elpar Industries: 021603661
Ford: 94BB-10300-AE, 94BB-10300-AF, F4PU-10300-AA, F4PU-10346-AA, F5RZ-10346-A
Ford Engineering: 94BB-AH
Motorcraft: GL-386, GL-386-RM, GL-482-RM
Bosch Remanufactured: AL7542X

For wiring I took mine into an alternator shop to wire it up for me and they had a spacer that fit it. I have it on my S4 with no issues with idiot panel. As far as wiring. The green wire went to switched power. on the main plug. Both of the cables on the main plug are switched 12v. The middle wire there yellow black connects to the other wire there on the alternator that you see. The yellow wire that is heat shrinked to the black wire is going over and connecting to the main power off the alternator. I cut the alternator bracket as you can see there and used that. I also had to use a couple washers and a spacer due to it being bigger.When I looked for an alternator I got the 3G model and hoped that was the one that was the one jackchild referred to. I also used the pulleys I already had however it was a tight fit to get them over the pulley. Then I only had to pull the alternator up an inch probably to get them snug.

Red95FD

iTrader: (3)

There is a company selling 130A alternators calling them NEW and for 86-88 rx7s on Ebay. I've asked them a few questions about fit and installation. I really want one if it fits correctly. Sorry if this has been brought up in this thread. I did not read the whole thing. They are asking $160 for the FC and $145 for the 84-85 FB. I'm assuming the FB alt. is for the gslse.

smikels

RED95...

BEWARE EBAY Alternators. I bought one from BNRPARTS that was listed as 160 AMPS and fit perfectly and was 55 AMPS when tested at an alternator shop after I noticed I was killing batteries. I am posting my thread below.

https://www.rx7club.com/bad-fugly-bu...-ebay-1115747/

It is nice to buy one off the shelf that works perfectly. Do your research before you buy. Google the company and see if their are any bad reviews. Good Luck and I would recommend going with what someone has already done and found that it works rather than hoping you will get lucky.

Red95FD

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=smikels;12239415]RED95...

BEWARE EBAY Alternators. I bought one from BNRPARTS that was listed as 160 AMPS and fit perfectly and was 55 AMPS when tested at an alternator shop after I noticed I was killing batteries.

That was exactly what I was looking at. Thanks for the heads up.
Did you get your money back from BNRbatteries? I saw they had 100% positive feedback.
Although I've seen lately they guys can get their feedback erased.

smikels

So I bought this alternator back when I was starting to change this Stock Turbo II to a little more. I did not need more then stock amps at first. After a year or so I added an electric fan that pulls 30 amps when I started noticing issues with my battery or charging system. After killing several batteries I started testing the charging system and it was only at 12.5 or something when the fan was running. So I took the alternator in to a shop and they told me it was putting out 55 amps MAX. Which is what a stock alternator puts out. I did email BNRPARTS I provided them with the information of my purchase and they did not reply. Then I started reading about lots of shops and issues with them upgrading an alternator. There are even issues on this forum of such as well. I have had this alternator on for a few months and it does what it is suppose to do.

troublesubie

Im going to try the 130amp taurus alt, dosnt seem all that hard my gf's 87 na has had issue with volt drop on the stock s5 alt (car has a full s5 drivetrain)
Thanks for the details guys