Wheels and Suspension Geometry vNeverBeenDoneBefore
 

There seems to be a wealth of misinformation out there about wheel fitment (what fits), suspension modifications, brake modifications, and performance. I'm sure I'm not the only person out there looking for a list of wheels that fit cars with suspension modifications and are lightweight, among other things.

So, is it possible to put together a list of wheels that fit a certain spec? (I already believe the answer to this is no...but I still have hope)

For instance, my GS has the ReSpeed big brake kit (5x114.3 lugs, TII brakes). Now, that means I can have a maximum of 4.5" of backspacing. On a 7" wheel, that's a maximum of +25mm offset (according to this useful backspace/offset calculator located here: http://scirocco.org/tires/). The reality is that most of the manufacturers I really like (Volk, Gram Lights, etc) do NOT make anything smaller than 17" that meet that offset requirement. Now, do I really want to run 17s on my car? Doesn't this compromise performance in terms of weight and suspension geometry, not to mention the jacked up presence of an FB on 17s? Kind of reminds me of Oldsmobiles on 22s...Haha.

I've also located wheels that are 15" AND meet the offset requirement but are ONLY offered in 15x7. I'm planning on making respectable power (400+) so I'm not so sure 7" out back is reasonable by any means, but I'm no expert!

In addition to the two instances above, there's also the possibility of using a spacer to make an offset work with my brake setup; again, this makes me question the adverse effects of running a spacer.

Someone, provide me with some insight and evidence that I should go with 17s, or 15s, or a certain width, in order to meet my expectations of lightweight, strength, and looks.

Rescue me, oh wheel manufacturers of the world!

I hope this isn't too convoluted. I would just find solace in the fact that I'm not the only one searching for a wheel...

the only thing that i was able to find for a coustumer that had the re speed 5 lug conversion rear and big turbo calipers in the front on a 15x8 where weld racing drag lights with a 0 offset :icon_tup: , anything else and the tires would hit the coilovers on the front

^^ so are you saying that maximum backspacing is 4.5" with the respeed 5 lug and big brake setup? If this is what your saying, then im sure ALOT of wheels will fit that.

If you were going to run 400+ hp I hope you are running 15x7 SLICKS.

Sh*t,I cant get hooked up cleanly with 17x9's out back, and Im only making 300 HP at the crank!

Larger circumference tires/wheels will give you more contact patch,so they arent all bad.Thats especially important when running a stock body,since there isnt a lot of room for wide tires.Going very wide with a solid rear axle causes issues with inner fender wall rub, and the lack of camber-in under compression means there is greater odds of fender lip rub.I experience both under certain conditions with my 245/35-17 rear tires,Im running a wide body and Im still in need of more rear traction in 1st and 2nd.

If your really gonna make 400HP,then weight isnt going to be a huge issue.Sure its unsprung weight,but your gonna need to make some other mods to safely harness that HP,and all that stuff adds weight too.17's can look OK on a 1st gen if you do it right,even with a stock body.There are tons of options out there for tire and wheel selection in the 17" range,so its a good choice.The taller wheels/tires also helps to stretch out your final drive ratio,which is helpful when your making big HP in a light car.

My Advans werent cheap,but they are very light and they have tons of offsets and widths availible,even for 4 lug guys like me.If you go 35-45 series on the tire,a 17" wheel wont raise you up much,if at all.Im running only 1" of spring drop,and the sideskirts help with the look a bit...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...y/DSC02053.jpg

That's exactly the kind of info I'm after. Price is really not too much of a concern for me as long as I don't have to part with any organs. I was hoping to use my bonus for the wheels after Uncle Sam gets his fix.

How are the 17s around the corners? I want to be able to do more than go in a straight line.

Thanks a lot for the input :).

Try it, believe me, there's hardly *anything*.

yes, with teh respeed BB kit the maximum amount of backspacing is 4.5". i have 16x7 and 16x8 on my car. 7 is about the max before you start to have issues with rubbing, this would be bigger if the wheel was smaller. in the rear i dont have any issues with rubbing due to the width of the wheel. if i played with the back spacing i think i ould easily fit a 9 or 10.

To comment on wheel spacers to fit FWD offet wheels in, they are not all bad like everyone seems to think. I had a couple custom spacers made 1" thick for the front of my 82 so I could fit a 16x7 with a 38mm offset. Overall they are a perfect fit on the front. no rubbing on the fenders, and good clearance at the coil over. I have the ReSpeed race coil over kit and camber plates along with their big brake kit using TII calipers and rotors. There is about a half inch of clearance between my 205/45R16 tires and the lower perch for the coil overs.

But, getting back on subject here, spacers DO NOT increase wear on your bearings like some people think, and if made properly are just as strong or stronger than your original hub. If bolted properly to the hub, then there is no worry about them breaking. I did have mine made of mild steel instead of aluminum that most companies use. They are a little heafty, but worth it for peace of mind. Also, unless you race your car hard, having non hub centric spacers is fine too if you have a 5 bolt pattern. I could go into calculating just how much force it would take to shear off even one bolt, or fatigue an adapter, but I'm too tired right now.

So that sort of dispels any myths of all spacers adversely affecting handling and so forth. The other thing to think about though is flaring my fenders. Are there diminishing returns with respect to width up front? Is anything beyond 7" too wide?

What about running 16s up front and 17s out back? I might be able to find that in a wheel I like...

And do I need to account for the tire here? Meaning...will the tire stick out that much beyond the wheel and cause fitment issues, hitting the suspension?

if youre going to run 16 up front then i would get the respeed coil over set up to give you some more room. you will also need to flare your fenders. i dont know what you plan on using the car for, but a 7 up front should be plenty

Billy already pwns my bank account! Coilovers certainly sound sexy though...I'll think about it.

I'm assuming that since you said "if you're going to run 16..." that this would also apply to 17s? The selection for 17" wheels is huge. I just don't want the wheel size to adversely affect handling.

I have two sets of tires/wheels.

1.Stock GSL-SE wheel w/ BFG drag radials. When I jump on it I can’t get traction in first or second. When I step into the throttle in a corner the rear-end holds true(well as much as a live axle can).

2.17x7’s w/ Flaken Azenis RT615 tires(205/215). The wheels weigh 16lbs each. From zero there is no traction in first or second as well. Going into the corner the car seems more stable but it is easier to kick the rear end out.

I think that this is because of the sidewall. On the 17’s the sidewall is pretty thin so the car “feels” the road more. In other words the tire does not give as much “cushion” with the 17’s. The car feels a lot more stable in general on entry and exit w/ the 17’s though.

I would say that a nice light set of 16’s would be the best of both worlds. The only problem is that they do not offer a wider (azenis) tire(~245+) in a 16” diameter. If you want to go wide you also need to go bigger.

If you are going to run 400hp, look for something in the range of 8-10” for the rear, and 7-9” for the front. You can run a 7”/8” staggered set if you do not want to flare/widebody the car.

There are a lot of myths about wheel spacers. I mean no offence in saying this, but most people that talk bad things about wheel spacers are uneducated and misinformed about them. If you think about it though, the aluminum hub on the front of a TII is about 3/4" thick cast. Using even a mid quality aluminum wheel spacer thats 1" thick will be stronger than a stock TII hub, making the hub the weak link. And we all know that those don't fail on a regular basis.

I would be the skeptic, misinformed, uneducated person you speak of. But I'm not claiming to know anything! I just get the sense that modifying something like that could *introduce* problems.

Thanks for your insightful comments and keep them coming.

Ive run spacers out back and adaptors up front for years with no problems.

Sure its easy to get yourself into trouble if you go too far out past the wheel bearings,and the early 1st gens tend to destroy their small outer bearings pretty quickly.But if you think that simply bolting on the adaptors will destroy your car and its handling,your just wrong.Increasing track width will almost always result in better handling,provided the correct actions are taken to suspension setup and alignment.And if you arent looking for a widebody or go-kart handling car,you can always negate the width increase with a set of high positive offset,FWD wheels.

I'm bringing this back from the dead because I'm installing fender flares, yay!

I could fit a 9" wheel out back. The problem is that it appears I will have to go to 17s to get that. I'm still very skeptical at the handling characteristics. Should I just stick with 16x7 and 16x8?

are you going to be using a stock rear differential?

I have a GSL-SE diff for right now :/.

I think I'm going to put in an order for SSR Type-Cs, 16x7 up front and 16x8 out back.

ah me too... the clutches are shot on mine, they work a little then just slip. I'm debating whether to rebuild it or to go 9 inch or something similar.

i'm shooting for 300 - 200 hp street and maybe up it to 400, but i don't know how much the se rear ends can handle.

I don't want to put too much money into something only to replace it with something better. so i might rebuild the diff myself, but use racing parts. if its right around 150 its alright. oh well i'd have to wait till the trans class started.

7 and 8 should be awesome... i'm not that big of a fan of 17s on first gens... even 16s are almost bad. i'm either gonna get S5 TII wheels or convertible bbs

I may have missed it, but what are you going to use the car for?

I am going to assume a weekend car? maybe autox?

If thats so, then you dont need to worry about the rearend too much. Its hard launches with sticky tires that kill rearends. Dont you have the moser axles? I have a SE rearend with moser axles, GSL gears(thicker teeth), and i dont plan on swapping it out unless i HAVE to. ill just keep upgrading parts as they brake. i just hate the idea of adding all the weight of a big rearend if i can avoid it. if i do have to upgrade ill go with a toyots 8" as it should be a good bit stronger without being too much heavier.

if i were you i would probably think about two different sets of wheels. one set that looks good and one set thats functional more so than appearance. i have my Work Equips that look good, but are also functional. I just picked up a set of convertible FC wheels that I would like to put sticky thread on and use for functional, but they also look really good. :D

one BIG factor you need to consider BEFORE you buy wheels, it tires. you need to decide what size you need and check out the price and availability of tires in that range. you could end up being stuck with extremely limited choices and very high prices. just some advice.

i believe i can find a lot more tires for the 15 x 6.5 convertible fc wheel than i can my 14 x 5.5 se wheels right now

i have 215 60 14s in the back with 185 60 in the front. i get a lot more grip in the back, but very little in the front. i'm looking to put some sumitomo 225 50 15 on the car. i will just go with the full brake conversion then.. if the rear end can handle the power for normal driving, i will just keep it at that.

If i decide to make it a drag car, i'll go 9 inch.

Here are a couple of pictues of my '85 with TII BBS wheels on. I've got some Toyo R888's to go on for track use. I need to bring the track at the back out because I'm running ReSpeed TII brake conversion with 25mm bolt-on spacers up front. I'll only take it out by 15-20mm because my Toyo's are 195 front and 205 rear.

you know there's always the option of doing custom rims like I will be doing in a month or two. I'll be getting mine from http://www.kodiakracingwheels.com/ and will cost around 1900$US but you get exactly what you want.

The car is going to be for...fun. Haha. I've never done anything autox, track, or otherwise, so this will be my first experience with anything like that.

I do have the Moser axles.

My first attempt at wheels, before I understood what would fit, was a set of FD stockers. I still have them actually, but the offset is terrible up front!! I'm saving them for my FD chassis.

This is probably a little bit extreme, but I would really like a set of forged wheels. The SSR Type-Cs are 12-13 lbs. Like I said, maybe this is just a bit extreme, but it's what I want. Talk me out of it if you think it's crazy!

I did a quick survey of "Extreme Performance" tires in the 16" range:

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
205/50R16 V rated
205/55R16 ""
225/50R16 ""

Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R
205/45R16 W rated
205/55R16 V rated
225/50R16 V rated

There's a lot more selection with 17" tires. That's a given. But isn't it slightly crazy to run 17" tires on this car?

Keep in mind that I do Have Eibach Pro-Kit springs and Tokico blues...

Help :(

They are definitely functional and that might be what I have to do, but it's not exactly what I want.

I tried contacting RS-Watanabe (http://www.watanabewheel.com/contact.htm) because they have a form online now but so far I haven't received a response. I know they're definitely not "light" but I know they're strong and they look damn good. But judging from what my car looks like right now, "looks" are not really what I'm going for...haha.

Thanks a ton for the responses guys, it's really helping me to think about all of these different factors when choosing a wheel/tire combo.

Agreed, the issue with the spacers doesn't lie in the overall unit but the way its applied.

Its simply a matter of leverage. A properly sized spacer will have minor impact on the bearings, but if you decide to go all crazy with it (I look at you Appliance Tuners! AkA Honda lovers) then you'll be setting the mounting surface that the wheel mates to so far out that the weight of the vehicle is resting on the bearings in damaging ways...

Or at least that's the Logical point of veiw...

I know Im a bit late here, but I just wanted to comment about how surprised I am at how conservative everyone seems with rear tires.

I am running 245/45/17 falken azenis in the back, and it only took minor rolling of the fender...

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...n/DSC01809.jpg

Rims are Tenzo 17X7 +42 offset... nice oldschool tire stretch and raked look to it. LOL

I guess the key is just not going too wide on the rims...

You're definitely not late. I think I need to go wider than 7" in the back and I'm just worried that over time I'll start to dislike how far off the ground the car sits if I bought 17s. The tire selection for 17s is leaps and bounds better than 15 or 16 though.

on my stock 14s i scrape when i'm coming up or down my driveway... i hope to fix this with my suspension.

i don't really like how 17s look on first gens, i think 16's the limit for me

have you noticed any gains from the mosers? are they heavier much?

The SSR Type-C has gone out of production and Tire Rack no longer has them in stock. I'm trying a few other places but I've also investigated 15s because Volk TE37s are available in 15x8 and 5x114.3.

The search continues. What a headache! As if the economy wasn't enough...

My car hasn't been running since I've had the Moser axles and I no longer have the stock axles or I would give you a weight comparison. There should be a sizable number of people with Moser axles in running vehicles though.