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what would be better a turbo or supercharger
I was just wondering which would be better for my eclipse A 14b Turbocharger or the ripp mods Supercharger kit..i am having a hard time deciding and i was hoping that u guys could help me out with a decision...:)
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this IS an rx-7 forum so were not going to know whats best for you eclipse. Plus theres no such thing as a 14b turbo charger, you probably mean 13b. And the 13b has endless choices for turbos so you should ask in an eclipse forum or something.
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i was at the eclipse forum and it keeps sayin that emails are banned and i dont know whats goin on with them..and also there is such thing as a 14b cause i saw some1 talkin about it and ive seen pics of it on the internet...and i knw this is a rx-7 forum and i just thought u guys might give a little opinions about what u think would be best
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doo-doo-doo-doo (Twilight Zone theme) ...
what would be best? hmmm ... slap a FOR SALE sign on the Mitsu and get an Rx-7. :D |
00Eclipse_GS is my homie guys :), he knows about this site cause of me. Like he said, you cant sign up to the eclipse forum so he is turning to the cool knowlagable people of rx7club.com. yea there is a 14B turbo its averaged sized i think, not too large. even tho he drives an eclipse im sure many of you have an opinion about whether a turbo or supercharger is better. personally i favor turbos and i already told him that but i guess he wants a second opinion :p:
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Turbo...then get ready for the crank walk and rebuild...:cool:
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Originally posted by The_7 00Eclipse_GS is my homie guys :), he knows about this site cause of me. Like he said, you cant sign up to the eclipse forum so he is turning to the cool knowlagable people of rx7club.com. yea there is a 14B turbo its averaged sized i think, not too large. even tho he drives an eclipse im sure many of you have an opinion about whether a turbo or supercharger is better. personally i favor turbos and i already told him that but i guess he wants a second opinion :p: |
The big reason you don't SC a 12A or even 13B engine is because of the extra load placed on the ecentric and its bearing in the front housing....the mitsi won't have this problem, it was designed for a heavy accessory load at the front...;)
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yea there is lots of info on it but here is my summary...
A turbocharger has the potential for more power but had the main disadvantage of turbo lag. A supercharger can't produce as much power as an equally sized turbo but has no lag because it is driven directly off the engine. A supercharger can't produce as much power because for one, it is less effiecient due to its drive system. Also, compressor speed is limited to engine speed because it is directly connected. A turbocharger is much more efficient since it is driven by exhaust gasses. Also, compressor speed is not as limited for the same reason. Turbos run much hotter than superchargers and because of this, without an intercooler they lose alot of efficiency. Also, they must be given time to cool down after spirited driving. |
a 14b turbo :)
thats sumthing u dont hear everyday imo i like the eclipse.. but yeh as the other guys were saying.. this is an rx7 forum... if yur email is banned then re-register with a new email |
I would personally go with a turbo. Im just not a fan of superchargers. Not really because of the technical aspects of it, but simply because I just dont like the look for the most part, lol. I think turbo setups look MUCH cooler in any given import engine bay, but thats just my opinion.
~T.J. |
Supercharger. No lag, no heat issues, better reliability, and TORQUIER. Plus, there's the novelty aspect as turbos are much more common.
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Yeah, go with a supercharger on the Eclipse... instant power... turbo lag is a bit more of a concern with piston engines... not a problem with superchargers, though. Just make sure you do as much research as you can so you don't dump all this money into your engine and then blow it. That would suck pretty bad.
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DSM's have pretty weak trannies, I would think the shock load a SC would deliver would eat through them fast. I'm a die hard turbo fan, though.
Oh, and save up for a 16G, they have alot more potential than the 14B, while not being too laggy on the 2.0. Then again, why don't you sell that GS, and pick up a GST or GSX, they already have a turbo, and the engines are built better for boost. |
Wait a sec, the 2000 is a 3g eclipse... get the V6 version, and turbo it.... umm turbo 3.0L V6 :drool:
I have a friend with a '02 Stratus R/T (essentually an 3g V6 Eclipse -- 6G72 engine) That we've turbo charged, using a TD06-17C. Right now he's got the boost upto 6psi is all, and that thing flys. He's waiting on getting a new clutch, fuel pump and injectors installed, then he'll be running 9psi or higher. The car is already into the mid 13 sec range. Definately faster and more powerful than the Ripp mods supercharger kits. |
If you go turbo on that engine, definately get the 16G, the 14B is going to run out of puff on that 2.4L
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00eclipse 65
Nice of you to come in and get some opinions from us...your welcome anytime... I have a supercharger in my car....it has no lag like turbos....and whoever thinks superchargers are not hot...wooo hooo... try touching it after a nice long drive....you do have to have a cooling system for the supercharger.... Bad thing about Superchargers is are you willing to live at the gas station...lol...and you must only use 92 octaine gas.... also Superchargers use more oil.... Good points about the Superchargers:....the response is right now....it does not think...it just does. You step on the gas and you're gone....poof. Hills???? what Hills...doesnt even faze a hill by all means... The sound of a Supercharger is awesome....it whistles....along with a high performance fuel pump noise....every experience in the car is just way too much fun... Turbos....I dont know too much about....I do know that they are better on gas than a Supercharger.....and that Turbos do have that Turbo lag.... I know that people will disagree with me...but I have asked around about the longevity of Turbos or Superchargers....2 shops told me that Superchargers have a better longevity than Turbos do... I also asked Jeff at Jeffs automotive which is faster at the start....he said most definetly Superchargers... My opinion is that Superchargers are faster at the start....but when the Turbos kick in...you better be way ahead of them.... Well its just a matter of preference...I can promise you that you would not be disappointed in a supercharger by all means....or neither a Turbo... Well in my opinion it's so well worth going to the gas station more....and I wouldn't change....the fact that I am a happy supercharged person... If I didn't hear that whistle...I would miss my car...I have had no problems with the supercharger yet... email me if you need more specifics... andyouandii@yahoo.com |
SC Definitly, turbo may create more compression but power drawn from exhaust gas is inconsistant. People bitch about an SC's strain on the crankshaft but newer SC's are fairly troublefree as far as that symtom is concerned... imagine havin an extra couple cylinders... power from 1K all the way till redline... fuck turbo's...
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I love my turbo and would never trade it in for a supercharger. The "turbo lag" you may experience will not be a issue when you fly past a car like yours with that supercharger kit :)
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FWIW a few months ago I asked about superchargers on a rotary and some info that was replied:
1. Superchargers are not intercooled therefore intake temps are hotter than turbos. Therefore you cannot run as high as boost with s/c. (~10psi max) 2. Atkins Rotary's s/c kit is ~$3k and turbo with blow thru carb and an NPR intercooler or other such good used IC can be done for lots less. 3. No parasitic loss with turbo. Better MPG and HP potential. 4. People that had a S/C LOVED them and didn't have anything bad to say. 5. Turbo guys said pretty much the same thing :) 6. Not a lot of shops selling S/C's these days. Any concerns about getting parts or rebuilds? What is the longevity of a S/C? 7. Someone here was trying to get a Thunderbird S/C to work on rotary power. |
i was doin some research and this is the supercharger i found..VORTECH V-5 G-TRIM SUPERCHARGER is it a good one? and will my stock engine be able to handl it?
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Forced induction is a beautiful thing......After that its all preference. With a rotary your not going to get Huge numbers with a SC. I will be pushing around 320-350 max. Much of what intregued me about the Atkins setup is the simplicity.
Oh ya........and ditch the SU-SHI and get a sports car with a soul:) Good luck |
I made my decision i am goin with a Supercharger..I may go with the ripp mods Superchareger which is baciscally the Vortech V5 Supercharger
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turbo
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Oh well, if you've made up your mind... All I know is my friend's turbo R/T is mid 13 sec running only 6 psi at 4200ft altitude. We've got the fuel system upgraded now, so bring on 10psi, and 12s. Current power estimate according to his 1/4mi is around 300 WHp, with anouther 4psi and we could be looking at around 325. Thats well over the HP numbers they've got going on the Ripp mods kits. Infact thats almost as much as the fully built Ripp Mods' engine running higher boost.
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Originally posted by DriveFast7 FWIW a few months ago I asked about superchargers on a rotary and some info that was replied: 1. Superchargers are not intercooled therefore intake temps are hotter than turbos. Therefore you cannot run as high as boost with s/c. (~10psi max) You can intercool an SC if you're doing a blow-thru configuration. You can also run ridiculous boost with anything that will give it to you if you run water injection. 2. Atkins Rotary's s/c kit is ~$3k and turbo with blow thru carb and an NPR intercooler or other such good used IC can be done for lots less. Atkins' kits are expensive, but comparable to what's offered for other vehicals. Difference is, they know they're pretty much the only game in town for 1rst gens rexs, and they don't even try to offer IC-ability for their kit. 3. No parasitic loss with turbo. Better MPG and HP potential. First part is true, but the second part...I'll explain later. 4. People that had a S/C LOVED them and didn't have anything bad to say. 5. Turbo guys said pretty much the same thing :) 6. Not a lot of shops selling S/C's these days. Any concerns about getting parts or rebuilds? What is the longevity of a S/C? Forever. -At least when you compare them to turbos. A turbo has to endure tremendous heat, and ridiculous changes in inertial direction. They truely are amazing. But they are punished more than any other part of the car. ...'Course that does'nt mean you can't go buy a shitty SC that'll fail ya. But you get the picture. 7. Someone here was trying to get a Thunderbird S/C to work on rotary power. That was jr(lotsa #s in his name). He tried, but used a Bonneville SC (Eaton M-62) that had Teflon coated rotors. He used it in draw-thru configuration and, well...you can guess the rest. I've posted alot about plans I have to SC a 12a with an Eaton M-90 from a T-bird Supercoupe. Eaton uses a bypass valve for their blower applications. While at cruise, the valve opens, allowing the boost to drop off. Basically, the blower is no longer compressing (not producing heat, either) at cruising speed. When the manifold vacuum drops due to throttle planting, the valve shuts, and "Whammo!" insta-boost. This is GREAT for two reasons- Gas mileage; and ; according to Eaton their M-90 draws 45-55 HP at 10 psi but only 3 HP at zero psi. (BTW, Mike Bassi @ Mazspeed tested the Camden 7 incher at 70 HP engine draw @ 10 psi!) The debate between blower and turbo will go on forever, often turning into a flamefuckfest, but the truth is that there are more choices out there for configuring a blower than most people ever bring up. I plan to blow my stockport 12a thru an IC from a Volvo, into my modded Nikki, and use water injection. I'll pulley the thing to max redline at my desired shift point (probably 7K-there's just no need to go higher as the boost is supposed to bring the power band down in the rpms anyway) and basically boost it for all it's worth- Hopefully about 15 psi. Then, I'll fabricate another valve like the bypass, but this will be operated from inside the car- on the console. It's essentially a bleeder valve that will decrease the boost level to whatever I want. -No more pulley change crap for different boost! In theory, running the SC at its limit but decreasing the work it has to do to compress (by bleeding compressed air) should extend it's life the same as if I had simply changed the pulley. When I get all the bugs worked out, I plan to persue making the alternator brakets, SC mounting hardware, carb box, and other fabricated crap into a kit for people. They would have to buy the SC and the IC. Either could be had at the yard or on Ebay for $600 total. Add a few hundred for pump, reg, gauge, + a few hundred for my kit, and I hope to be the first one to be able to offer bolt-on boostability to 12 psi for the 12a for under 1500 bucks! |
a very simple question,
if a turbo is better than a supercharger, than whay does every top fuel dragster run a supercharger?(same thing as a *BLOWER*!) on the other hand i realise on a rotary it puts too much strain on the e-ehaft but he drives a boinger |
Sterling, hows that project going anyway? I really hope to see it running, because that is how supercharging should be done. Hopefully when you get there, you'll actually have a viable system.
Ripp Mods supercharger kits for the '00+ Eclipse, IMO are the wrong way of doing it. First off, I'm not a huge fan on the vortech, centrifigal blowers, because the boost they make is more or less proportional to RPM. Its not really a instant on boost, because it virtually doesn't make any at low rpm. So you have a turbo-like power curve, but lacking a few things that a turbo has, namely power potential,on the fly tunablity, and efficiency. These blowers compress the air more efficiently than positive displacement blowers like Eaton, but in comparison to a turbo, the parasitic losses are higher, thus at a given boost level, the TC will ultimately make more power. They are a bit easier to intercool than their roots-type counterparts(aftercool as some supercharger guys call it), but Ripp doesn't seem to be offering any IC, which in my opinion is even more critical for a SC system than a TC one. Thus it lack power potenital, because you have to keep the boost low to avoid detonation. On the fly tunability is only possible with a bleed of some sort, much like Stirling suggests, but is not extremely easy to make due to the amount of air it has to bleed off -- literally hundreds of CFM. |
if a turbo is better than a supercharger, than whay does every top fuel dragster run a supercharger?(same thing as a *BLOWER*!) |
fatboy,
The project has been put on the back burner while Carl and I start the Nikki modding thing. Money we each make from that are for our individual rotary projects. When the money's there to do it, I will start on it.:) |
i know u cant Intercool a S/C but they got something called a aftercooler it works the same way but its located after the supercharger right before it goes to the engine
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well u can intercool them it just doesnt help a SC as much as a aftercooler does
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I have NO problems cooling my Supercharger down....and yes FATBOY is correct...ask any shop....
Honestly I am game to take anyone on that has a Turbo in a 7....with my Supercharger....I will get you in the start.....yeah you might get me in the end....but by the time you try to catch up....I probably will be gone....POOF Just kidding...but will give it my best shot...anyway....All in fun... I want a 20B with a 9in supercharger someday....maybe thrown in the 2nd gen GO SUPERCHARGER |
i know u cant Intercool a S/C but they got something called a aftercooler it works the same way but its located after the supercharger right before it goes to the engine |
i thought aftercooling was water to air?
i know vortech sells them like that |
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