Set Timing by idle??????
 

can this be done because thats what i did last night and i set the leading on the first knotch (the right one when standing infront of the car looking at the pulley) but then couldnt do the trailing since it was so off and then just left it there since it was 1am..... but its seems to be running fine and not haveing any problems

should i worry about this or is it ok to drive it like this??????????

Look here for details on timing from Paul Yaw - http://www.yawpower.com/pultime.html

1am? Sounds like me Lol.

can you time it at idle because the hayes seriously does not say anything about reving the engine up which is why i did it at idle why is this?

yah you can time it at idle. If you have read the Haynes manual, why don't you just follow it? I don't understand what your question is.

i followed the hayes manual and set the leading so it was lined up with the right knoch but when i hooked the light up to the trailing the knotchs on the pulley were WAY off and were pointing towards the passenger strut tower/ intake manifold and moving the pot did nothing to bring it back to line up with the right knotch on the pulley.........but then i looked back at the leading wire again and it was right on... so??? i dont know how this is possible

Did you disconnect the vacuum advance for the dizzy?

do i disconnect it plug the nip on the carb and then plug the two lines too?

i tryed again at idle and i can line the leading knotch up with the pin but the trailing is WAY off no matter what i do if i keep the light connected to the leading wire and move the trailing pot it moves the leading knotch

When you set the trailing ignition, the reading should come from a trailing spark plug not the leading... Not clear if you are doing that or not.

The adjustment on the trailing is done by the vacuum advance by moving it in and out. And as Kentetsu has pointed out you have to have the timing light on the T1 plug wire.

i have it looking like this from the driver side wheel hooked to the L1 and then when i hook it up to T1 the knotches on the pulley are way off like in the pictures..

Are the spark plug wires on wrong????

That is very strange Rusty. I think I would start by verifying that everything is hooked up correctly. Make sure that the ignitors are firing the proper coils, and that all plug wires are routed correctly at the cap, and from the cap to the plugs. It almost sounds like your leading/trailing signals are reversed? Strange....

well on the first picture is that what the L1, L2 , T1, T2 spark plugs go??? and the coil in the fender that is furthest to the front of the car is the leading and the rear one is trailing??

On my SE the front coil closest to the battery is hooked up to the trailing and the other rear one is hooked up to the leading.

I have the exact same problem, I'll try switching the coil wires hopefully that'll work.

Rusty,

Is your rat's nest intact or has it been removed?
If it was removed, where do your vacuum pots connect on the carb spacer?

After reading through that biggass thread on vac advance and rat's nest removal, this could definitely account for some difference. Snap a shot of your engine bay if you can, emphasis of course on the dizzy vacuum pots, rat's nest area and carb spacer.

Jon

As far as I understand it (and I may indeed be very wrong), switching the coil wires won't do anything.

The coils provide a constant "available" charge which discharges once the gap inside the distributor cap is small enough that the current can jump accross. The only thing switching the coil wires might affect is your tach, since it's run off one of the coils.

My guess is that the vac advance system is doing something wonky, you've got the dizzy cap on upside down, or the plugwires are hooked up wrong. From your diagram though, it looks like the wires are hooked right (that layout is correct. I remember it by saying that rotor one is the first one that would be affected by a front-end impact, Trailing are the Top plugs and Leading are the Lower plugs)

Jon

When setting the timing, always disconnect the vac advance and plug the source. I recently moved my vac line for the vac advance to the nipple farthest forward on the carb spacer. This seems to provide the proper vacuum for the system, and the car runs a lot better since I did this.

If the line is hooked to the wrong nipple, then you could end up getting manifold vacuum which will advance the timing at idle which is what you don't want. The vac advance should not come into play until the throttle is opened.

if i hold the timing light on there and rev the engine it does move the knoches clockwise so they are further right pointing to the drivers side of the engine bay

That is probably your mechanical advance that you are seeing... Did you disconnect the vac advance?

i have tryed it both ways disconnecting it from the carb and plugging the nip on the carb and then plugging the nips on the vacum pots too and leaving all connected too

I tried every thing myself, I even used my old pulley from my other motor and made three other sets of timing marks to see if the pulley was improperly installed, nothing! I pulled the distributor and reinstalled it one gear tooth off, no luck. I have no clue whats going on, I just adjusted the dizzy by ear, which I'm sure means its still off. Hopefully some one figures this out.

Any more thought on this?? im still having the problem and i have NO power over 4,000 RPM and my car wont go over 80 MPH...and then it starts making a sqealing noise from the engine!!

Looking at you 2nd diagram, I'd almost guess that the dizzy is off a tooth. Refer to the FSM on how to reset it and check the wiring diagram for the wire colors going to the coils to make sure you have the coil wires plugged in correctly.

The timing will begin to advance mechanically somewhere between 1000-1400 rpm. Not sure of the exact rpm.

just a seperate side note... this is problem not your problem, but i ex[perienced some funky readings using a cheapo timming light. Aparently the inducer was picking up the leading spark at the same time as the trailing and i was getting inconsistent readings.. bought a nice craftsman and no more issues...

timing
 

Looks like the T1 and T2 plug wires may be switched

That's what I was thinking.

Yeah, you should really verify that everything is going where it is supposed to go. You don't want to end up with the trailing/leading switched around. Trace everything from the start and you might find your issue. Good luck...

can somebody draw out how the spark plug order is, like how i had done.? On my dizzy cap it reads the L1,L2,T1,T2 and i have the wires coming off of those and going into the plugs like how i have listed..

What i dont get is if leading is set how can trailing be THAT far off??????

The way I remember it is :

Leading are the "Lower" plugs
Trailing are the "Top" plugs
Rotor 1 is the rotor closest to the front of the car
Rotor 2 is the second one

T1 T2
L1 L2

So I the image posted looking at the engine from the driver's side is correct. I don't see how T1 and T2 could be switched unless they were done on the dizzy cap, or your dizzy cap is on backwards or something.

Jon

What I meant is, check to make sure that:

1. The leading ignitor (front of dizzy) is connected to the leading coil. I mean the small wires, not spark plug like wires.

2. Make sure that the leading coil is hooked up to the leading spot on the dizzy.

3. Make sure that the leading plugs are connected to the leading spots on the dizzy cap.

4. Repeat process for trailing system.

After much searching and tinkering, while trying to solve a strange running issue, I found that my leading ignitor was hooked up to my trailing coil. Needless to say, this caused some issues. I have no idea how it happened, and don't remember ever changing it, but these things happen I guess... I'm actually surprised that it didn't cause more issues than it did.

For the plug wires themselves, it should be pretty easy. Both the cap, and the motor, should be marked. So, just make sure that T1 on the cap goes to T1 on the motor, etc. and you should be all set there.

Good luck man... :)

So, I know this thread is super old, but it recently helped me tremendously, and I felt like my comments could help other readers since the op's problems were never resolved on this thread.

I have an '83 12a limited edition. I've been trying some ignition advance stuff I've learned off of this forum and various sites. Unfortunately, while timing the engine, I noticed my trailing was reading to be more advanced than the leading, just like the op's diagram. Kentetsu's recommendation of checking the ignitor wires to the coils led me to swap the coil-to-distributor leads (i.e. the ignitor-to-coils electrical wiring was "reversed"). Either way, changing the leads led to the desired effect: my leading plugs are finally showing to fire at more advanced timing than the trailing (exact opposite of before). At stock adjustments, my timing marks line up with the timing pin appropriately, though I now have them advanced per my desire.

Bad news (if any) is that it didn't change how my ignition fired (I had already advanced it by ear/sight/feel, despite the bad timing readings), but the good news is that I now see correct timing marks and adjustments.

Hope this helps future readers.