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One thing you could try is pulling it with another car and popping the clutch. It's worked for me. The only issue is that if it's stuck because of a broken seal, you could cause damage to the rotor housing.
Sounds like you are running out of options, if you can't break it loose with a reasonable amount of torque on the breaker bar chances are things are pretty serious in there.
I told you about the happy news with the 12A in that silver GSL but I didn't tell you about my most recent experience, with the locked up 12A in my current 83 LE. That one would not break loose and on the tear down I found things were pretty messed up inside but the engine had 147,000 miles on it so not unexpected.
In your case since the engine was a recent rebuild there's a good chance you still have lots of reusable parts, even a couple good rotors and rotor housings if you're lucky. So think about what KC said, you could get radical and tow it but you would you also run the risk of destroying some of the innards, rotor housings being the greatest loss.
If it were me I'd give up and tear it down. Taking a 12A apart is actually a lot of fun, kind of like a treasure hunt to see what good stuff you might find inside. And if the car is a keeper it's going to be well worth popping a fresh rebuild in there, I have one in my current daily driver LE and it's the sweetest FB I've had yet. A couple of rotary friends (Robert and Mike) and me did that rebuild in Robert's basement, took a day or two but it came out fine.
I had to travel out of town for a few weeks for work then I had to make up some family time. I'm just getting back to the engine. It's been sitting with seafoam in it this entire time. Still not budging. Today i put a heat gun to the bottom (the oil pan removed). I connected a contraption to the fly wheel and put a breaker bar on it. It didn't move. Any other thoughts? I will try anything to NOT break this thing open.
Are you trying to turn both directions? Is the engine bolted to a stand or immobilized in some way/ What is contraption you speak of?
It's on an engine stand. I connected a puller to the flywheel and I put a breaker bar in the middle. I tried it both ways. I guess I could get a longer moment on it, but the stand is only going to be stable with so much force. I'm happy to share pics if that helps. Also, you can see gunk when you look inside the exhaust port. It looks pretty nasty in there. I only my myself to blame for that.
I don't think I've ever seen a rotary exhaust port without gunk in it. Have faith and pray to the Rotary Gods.
If you have a sturdy 1/2" breaker bar (2 feet or better) fitted with a 19 mm socket you can connect this directly to the eccentric shaft bolt to get better torque.
The puller you have on there may be flexing and buffering the torque so you're not getting enough to break whatever is locking it up, which could be just a bit of carbon wedged in an apex seal just right.
Being on the stand instead of in the car also makes it harder to get good sharp torque on the eccentric bolt. Anything you can do to stabilize the engine and stand will help.
Be sure to rock and torque the breaker in both directions like GSLSEforme says with good sharp force in both directions.
And if that doesn't work, well see my comment a couple posts above.
If it were me I'd give up and tear it down. Taking a 12A apart is actually a lot of fun, kind of like a treasure hunt to see what good stuff you might find inside. And if the car is a keeper it's going to be well worth popping a fresh rebuild in there, I have one in my current daily driver LE and it's the sweetest FB I've had yet. A couple of rotary friends (Robert and Mike) and me did that rebuild in Robert's basement, took a day or two but it came out fine.
To Ray you listen; as yoda would say.
Tear it down. You already have the oil pan off... what's stopping you now?
It does sound like fun, but to answer the question "what's stopping me now?" about $1000 for a rebuild kit and the fact that it only has a few thousand miles on a professional rebuild. I just hate to do it. I don't need the car right now (but it would nice to have for my long commute rather than my old land cruiser @ 14mpg ). AND I don't do well with knowing when to quit. I was ready to break it down when I started this thread but I was persuaded to try to revive it and now I don't want to quit on her. But if I need to, I need to. I just don't want to stop short.
It does sound like fun, but to answer the question "what's stopping me now?" about $1000 for a rebuild kit and the fact that it only has a few thousand miles on a professional rebuild. I just hate to do it. I don't need the car right now (but it would nice to have for my long commute rather than my old land cruiser @ 14mpg ). AND I don't do well with knowing when to quit. I was ready to break it down when I started this thread but I was persuaded to try to revive it and now I don't want to quit on her. But if I need to, I need to. I just don't want to stop short.
I'll give it another go with a 19mm breaker.
If you don't damage the apex seal/side seal/corner button or whatever is the hold up.... The soft seal kit is $150 from Rock auto. Most of the innards (if it was professionally rebuilt) should be new if not in immaculate shape.
Perfect timing - I just finished reading "The Alchemist". I will listen to my heart for the story of my legend which is to again drive this car - or something like that. I can't promise my mantra won't be more aggressive than a "vroom" sprinkled with some expletives.
Well, I tried and tried. I chanted vrooom and oom and some other choice words. At point I had a pry bar as a brace and I brought my engine hoist into the mix. No go.
I gave in and broke it down. It was all gunked up inside and I now have the shaft turning by hand.
I see two seal kits on Rock Auto. Anyone know the different beside $30?
Man, was it easy to tear down! Thank you all for the help and words of encouragement. Guess I'll get to reading!
The fel pro kit for a 12A on RA is all I ever use in my 13Bs. I just toss the intake gasket and cut the exhaust gasket in half to suit the 13B.
They are the same style as OEM mazda. Red with white stripe inner coolant seals and black solid rubber outer coolant seals. Viton oil control rings are red for some reason, but never had an issue with oil consumption.
The innards were interesting. After I got the gunk off the first rotor (the rear one), the cam rotated. It looks like the seals are just caked with whatever. i'll get some better pictures, but this is what I have. Please excuse the mess - I need to reorganize my work area. And please excuse the size of these pictures. Maybe someone has a tip on how to attach in a more friendly size.
Damn, its a good thing you didn't get that running... Think about all that rust and nasty spinning around in the housings?!? I don't think you would have held compression for long if at all.
Need to clean them off, and take better pictures, but from a cursory glance they look good.
Check for pitting on the irons. Careful removing the seals from the rotors.... They do look crusty you might break a seal getting them out, but the rotors could be alright with a good cleaning.
Yeah this is fun. Anything I should consider doing while I'm in here? My parts will be in on Thursday. I hope to be able to start the rebuild this weekend. I have watched Aaron Cakes rebuild videos. Anything else I need to watch out for?
The seals look caked. Can you by individual seals? I've only seen the entire kits on atkins.
Yeah this is fun. Anything I should consider doing while I'm in here? My parts will be in on Thursday. I hope to be able to start the rebuild this weekend. I have watched Aaron Cakes rebuild videos. Anything else I need to watch out for?
The seals look caked. Can you by individual seals? I've only seen the entire kits on atkins.
Just get the kit from atkins for the apex seals and springs. Six seals, six apex springs long, and six apex seals short. You will NOT regret this. $400 now is better than buying another soft seal kit cause you can't get compression out of the old springs and seals. I've tried re-using old apex seals; I couldn't get them to seat right. But I've never had issues with buying a new set from Atkins.
02-10-19, 12:12 PM
