Killer Bee vs 13bt ii
 

Im looking at doing an engine swap and i have Fast Freddy's here in town.....he was telling me how the Killer Bee engine can produce 250hp and it can take the 13bt ii....he also said that it runs a high 12 low 13....now thats diffinately a difference from the 12a im running right now....

My question is does anybody have experience with the Killer Bee...any pros/cons.....and if this is true im thinking of getting it done around september so ill try my damndest to get pics of the process....thanks

I'm sorry but i'm stumped to what a "Killer Bee" engine is. It reminds me of a mini- RC plane engine though. Like a .038 or so...

yeah, i too am stumped...whats a killer bee engine

Enlighten us as to what a "Killer Bee" engine is. For some reason, the name implies a p-port rotary. They do tend to sound like a million killer bees in a tin can.

The Killer Bee packaged is from Rotary Reliability & Racing.

I have the motor in my car, and I can tell you it is farely quick. I have no clue how it would stack up to a stock TII, but I know that it pulls 0-60 in the high 6 second range. That was measured with a G-Tech with a slipping clutch, and I'm positive my carb is pretty far out of tune. I'm sure mid/low 6 second 0-60 times are possible with a perfectly tuned carb, nice clutch, and a freshly broken in motor. As for 1/4 mile times, I have no clue. Heh. Hope I helped. Later.


P.S. It's a mild street port, for those wondering.

**EDIT** The 0-60 times are with the specs in the sig. If you get the Killer Bee, you're probably going to have an exhaust and whatnot, but I just gave the numbers as a referrence, not a promise. Heh.

Old skool, I belive Killer Bee is like Atkins, Mazdatrix, or Pinnaple. It's the name of the company, they use to make parts, all kinds of them years back, Ive got a catalog from them.

Hahaha

Why would you name your company "Killer Bee"?
And is this rediculously named company located in Spartenburg? I've got friends up there...

FS

I'm about positive the name of the company is Rotary Reliability & Racing. The engine package is the Killer Bee engine. It's a street ported motor with a name other than "street ported motor" Heh.

ITs a nice engine, VERY nice! Here
http://www.rotaryracing.com/rr_rot_engines.htm

These arnt the old skool killer bees, but the tight sauce ones. They sell a NA p-port w/ 58 weber that gets 350 hp. Nice. Mmmm.. and look at all that chrome...

My first rx7 had a 'Killer Bee' streetported 13B 4port with a Mikuni 44. I ran a RB dual exhaust and Jacobs ign pack.
It was quick, but not 250hp quick.
However- Nick VanNugteren is the proprietor and he is very well respected in his knowledge of rotary engines. He won a few land speed records in Bonneville with some of his rotary rx7's...
I can say that he stood by his work, one of the new parts failed and he replaced it (+labor) no problem.

If I was to have another engine custom built, I would seriously consider him again.

Also- I believe he calls his motors 'Killer Bees' because his signature paint job used to be yellow and black.

I did not know that is why he named them "Killer Bees" Thank you for telling me, though.

And I agree, they are quick, but not 250HP quick.

I will also add that the motors are quite reliable. The motor in my car right now is probably 6 to 7 years old and has upwards of 80-90K miles on it. Those miles include ~2 autocross events a month for roughly 4 years, and daily "spirited" driving spurts. It still runs strong, and I'd imagine it'll last quite some time into the future.

a buddy of mine had 2 killer bee motors go south on him real quick and he paid a fortune for them. That was when rr and r was located in California in santa ana or something. Sounds like others have had good luck with them though :confused:

If its only a street ported 4 port 13b then I would defenitely say to go with a 13bt swap instead. With the 13bt swap and a couple little mods like, remapped corksport ecu, injectors, down pipe and front mount you can run 200-275 RWHP. the sreet port 13b will only ever put down 175-210 RWHP. plus the turbo engine will make way more tourque. i can post dyno sheets of my turbo fb, in 80+ degree weather and elevation i put down 220 RWHP and 245 tourque with basically the mods i listed above, and my car passes emissions.

CJG

I always thought that the 13B 'Killer Bee' needed a 4bbl Holley or Nikki to reach 250 ponies. Maybe an IDA Weber.

Now put a supercharger on it- That's a different ballgame. That would have been perfect on that motor, IMO.

i dont think you would see 250 fly wheel on a street ported 13b, mabe like 210 on a large street port. lets try and talk wheel horse.

CJG

when i dynoed my car, dave atkins son was there with a new large street ported 13b 4 port with a camden supercharger, he laid down 176 RWHP, I found that pretty funny.

CJG

You're right. More than likely have to bridge port a 4port 13B to get it up around there.

ya, a good sized 13b bridge can run about 225-250 RWHP. without touching the water jacket.

CJG

I thought it was an engine built by wutang. Wu Killa Bees!!!!!

i'm a bit skeptical with that 250 HP quote as well, but i think 210 is a bit low. wasn't 220-225 HP the average number back in the day (from Rotary Engineering days) on large streetports? i mean, aside from the catalog quotes and all ...

I got a 13B 4-port Sp and guy it's fast as all hell. I have yet to go against a 13BTii. Tell you what though a lot of cars don't know what hit em when I fly by em. I'm planning on going turbo sometime hopefully.

Dude, be kinda careful when you use the words "fast as hell". those words need to be reserved for the guy with the fb that has 300-350+ wheel. I dont doubt you can rip 90% of the swapped hondas and integras, but i think if you tryed and run against boosted honda, stock T2 with 10 lbs, etc. you would get beat.

CJG

TRYING to upload killer bee logo but server is burping.

hey, when going from slow Honda to "this" it's fast as hell lol

Killer Bee Logo

http://mazdarepu.com/Gallery/uploads/RRandR.jpg

Killer Bee Engine
coloring theme gives it away :)
http://mazdarepu.com/Gallery/uploads...bee_engine.jpg

Ready to slide in
http://mazdarepu.com/Gallery/uploads...rt-engine1.jpg

I might need to call him and ask if I can use his coloring scheme lol. I love it

Whats the hp/tq,and at what rpm range? I'm looking for a nice enigne to drop into an FB for a daily,but still be able to auto-cross it. How would the Killer Bee hold up to a nice shot of nitrous? I was also thinking,what about a ram air set-up? I know it wouldn't add that much hp,but hell,its worth a shot. :D

they stole my engine!
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...422_4_full.jpg

then after wal-mart changed the oil...ha ha ha more like emptied the oil... had another made with a little different color....
like the first one more.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...422_7_full.jpg

by the way, for the most power especially at high rpm's go TURBO.
Rotortuner's turbo is sweet. whoop my ass quick. was fun though. was doin 125 and he FLEW by me. jerk. and as for the superchargers. they are great. the atkins car did only dyno at 176. but........ he was runnin a 6psi pully and had a carb that wasn't tuned in very well. actually a few hours before i noticed the secondaries weren't even opening all the way, so we fixed that. and the other good thing about the supercharger is that his hp wasn't below ,i believe 120 at the start and had a very even line, not a boost curve. so the pro's and con's. for the most power at high rpm's go turbo. for constant power, go camden supercharger.

like the first one better,

same here

So,what about those questions on this engine and nitrous/ram air?

it all depends on how it's built. yes, ram air is good on any engine. stock or built. cold air rocks. how much power it will produce? probably not too much. and for nos? i've been lookin into it for awhile now. you can run a 75 wet shot on a motor. unless you get it built with clearanced rotors, then you can run a 150 wet shot. just depends on how well it is built and how long you want it to last.

heys guys thanks for all the input. by the way the complete setup comes with a weber carb and a complete exhaust system that is identical to racingbeats.....also this is the Fast Freddy's shop located in Joshua Tree in cali...its the secondary shop of the one in Santa Anna

im looking at doing this swap here in the next couple of months...and im going to put a blow-thru turbo on it after the new years if everything goes as planned...so keep up the advice and ill make sure to post pics

Well,I'm looking at this "killer bee" set-up. Is this on a 12a,or a 13b? I'm assuming 13b. With 250 flywheel horsepower,and a 2800lbs car,that should put me in the mid-low 14's atleast. With the 75 shot,I'm sure I can hit 13's. Would be a great daily/auto-x car.

since when does a 1st gen weigh 2800lbs? they were 2350-2500 depending on year and options.

you want the extra power and torque of a 13b.

Holy crap,even lighter then I thought. This set-up alone would drop you in the 13's.

Is there a certain 13b that would work best? I know someone that I think ran this set-up,and he used a 13b from a 79 Cosmo.

yes, a 4 port motor puts out a little more power than the 6 ports.

13b 4 ports were in rx4, repu, and cosmo. but you can make one with 12a 4 port plates, 13b rotors, eshaft, counterweights. lighter 89-91 rotors are also higher compression.

I hadn't realized how little there actually is to a rotary engine till I was looking for 12a parts on ebay. I'll have to look into building one of those engines you just described. Do you have idea what the reliability/how many miles that motor you described would be capable of?

I have a killer bee in my SA22C LS, I bought the car from a local junkyard for $1,000 and the engine fired right up after replacing the battery, ignition switch and adding gas+premix and after doing some basic maintenance and replacing a few old failing parts it's currently my daily. The car is very quick and easy to drive. While it's much faster than my old stock 83' FB, it's surprisingly fuel efficient. I drive alot and my overall mpg is about 15-17 city and 19-23 hwy. I'm not sure what power and torque output is, but what I can tell you is that it's very enjoyable to drive and I would highly recommend this setup to anyone wanting a good solid and reliable rotary powered daily.

Details: the engine is a 12a/13b hybrid using 12a irons and RX-5/Cosmo 13B housings, it's paired to an RX5 5 speed ribcase trans and uses a racing beat 465 cfm holley and has full racing beat header back exhaust

The car is a 1980 SA22C LS

*verified that the engine was built by RRR over conversations had with Nick and is one of his earlier setups that used racing beat holleys. He stated that he made the switch to weber carbs due to issues had with the RB holleys when cornering and the setup I have is better for straight lines, but perfectly fine for daily use. I've noticed when I turn left there is some hesitation and/or fuel cutting, but right turns are perfectly fine (largely due to how the carb sits with the bowls on the right and left). But again this set up is perfect for daily use.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...7397d732dc.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...3313195c89.png
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...47869d796f.jpg

now get DLIDFIS.

Finally got my car onto a dyno and results weren't disappointing at all. For a car that came out of a junkyard with a modified engine with unknown mileage (aside from the 10,000 miles i've put on it within the last 6 months) likely built in the early 80s from what Nick was telling me about my setup in particular, the numbers seem very decent (plus this was at 4,300 FAS)

*When I had my old 83' FB which was just a stock GS I had planned to do an S4 Turbo II swap after finishing my RX-8 build, but since losing it in a wreck being T-Boned and the SA being it's replacement, with this setup, I no longer have any desire to either boost or swap a boosted engine into a 1st gen chassis. As a daily driver it's perfect and I enjoy every second of driving it and having the solid reliability of an NA with similar WHP output of a stock TII is a huge plus. So IMHO if all you care about is power, by all means go for the TII, but if you want the best of both worlds and don't care so much for very high output, but rather a modest but decent output, go for the killer bee

*Also turns out the irons I thought were 12a are actually 13b irons, Y cast front and rear and R5 center 4 port 13B irons with RX-5 housings (just thought i'd mention it to correct my last comment)