His car weighs 300 pounds less than yours. His car is probably making around 130hp at the wheels, which is possible with that setup. He might be "pretty close", but you are definitely faster.

His lighter car (lighter engine block for starters) would not need 150 rwhp (170 flywheel? I won't speculate on drivetrain losses since my speculations seem to enrage Cannucks for some reason...:p: ) to keep up with you. There's also driver variances, which is why dyno time is so important. On the street, 40 HP might win a race, but it's not a given because of all the wild variables that can change the outcome, the least of which is simply the drivers' skills themselves...gotta get dyno...Right now, Paul has 150 HP as the limit of a stock port based on a lot of dyno runs... :cool:

WTF are you talking about???

Haha... just kidding ;). We agree on this one man!

Sorry, my car is stripped and weighs 2400 lbs. I weigh 140 lbs. My car is actually a little lighter than his. He has a fully loaded 85 GSL. I have a stripped GSL-SE.

Fully loaded GSL= ~2300 pounds.

The '84-85 GSLs will weigh more than the earlier ones. There is more electronics in the car, and the rearend weighs ~50 pounds more than the '81-83 GSL rearend.

So, is this going to turn into an argument too? Cmon Peejay, I think we both know what a 12A can do and not do from experience. Yet some people just love to stir the pot with some second hand specualtion... it seems to always turn out that way. It gets annoying.

Hey... knocking on 14's with a 130hp 12A.... wondeful things can happen when your car is light enough :)

I'm with you. My 83 w/12A is down to under 2100 pounds with a Dellorto carb and streetport exhaust. I can run 15 flat (very high 14's, very low 15's lol) with my engine on the way out (cant go over 6000 in 3rd)... and MAN did it take alot of tweaking to get it there.

:flipoff:

That's real cute. Listen, there's always room for improvement. When you build rotaries for decades, with a rather good size budget for R&D because you sell to all-out race car owners who pay a good chunk for this guy's work... This guy designed his own exhaust system for the race engines he builds (and I guess he sells 'em to people he sold engines to so that they're "commercially available" and therefore legal).

82 GSL, 4-port 13B, Racing Beat street port exhaust, Holley intake, A/C, 2385lbs.

84-85's were much heavier - especially fully loaded. They weighed almost as much as a GSL-SE. Closer to 2500lbs. And he weighs about 180lbs himself.

Simple fact is this. I have the car here. It's by no means our first 12A motor. Setting it up right yields good results. There is only so far you can go on a stock-port 12A, but it is higher than 150bhp - of that I am sure. If you figure a 17% drivetrain loss, that puts my GSL-SE at around 190bhp - and he is somewhat keeping up. Not completely - but reasonable close. I am not a great or terrible driver. Neither is he.

Do the math. If you have a car that weighs about 2550 (including the driver) and you run a 16.1 (which he has the only 2 times that he has taken it to the drag strip (at Commerce, no less), then that equates to "about" 157.0 bhp / 120.77 rwhp. And those were back-to-back runs.

Here you go boys... straight from the 85 sales brochure. Without AC 2325lbs, with A/C 2380lbs.

SE is 2575. Anyway you slice it, stock to stock the SE is still at least 195 pounds heavier.

http://www.monmouth.com/~rothe/85-17.jpg

16.1 with 150hp? wtf? And you say he's almost as fast as you with 190 :eek: hp? Hmm... and how are you getting 190hp out of that SE engine again? With the stock FI?

For the second time on this thead...

:bsflag:

You even look like a crazy, mean Cannuck!! What's with everybody posting their personal pics as avatars...this ain't no dating Forum!!

Race me and find out. You need timeslips, dyno sheets? Witnesses? I can back everything I say up. I have been building rotaries for years. When you have more experience, come back and play. Until then, you are an obviously a jackstand racer.

As for the weight of the cars, go and actually weigh your car. They have a scale at every track. I have been and weighed my car. And that's 2385 (he has air) plus his weight of a conservative 180lbs. That's about 2565. Mine weighed 2540 at Silver Dollar with me in it. You also need to figure in gas, oil, water, etc. They weigh them dry. Mine was weighed stripped down, but with a rollcage and 1/4 tank of gas.

Yes, stock injection system, not stock internals. Engine is ported. Need a dyno sheet? You do the math 156.3 rwhp / 127.1 rw-tq with a messed up ignition system (since then has been fixed).

Do you know what a worn out LSD is?

You need to learn more before you start calling someone a liar. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean someone more experienced can't. You come across like a little 16 year old punk who thinks he's figured it all out.

Hell, come down here to the NOPI Drag Wars (July 27,28) and I'll let you drive both of the cars. On the track, and on the dyno. Come prove it to yourself. Don't just talk sh!t that you have no facts on. I have proof. I can back up what I say.

Call Arthur at Dynolab (http://www.dynolab.net) and ask him what I laid down.

Here is a pic of my motor, exactly how it was when it made 156.3rwhp.

http://63.77.158.90/se/Image135.jpg
http://63.77.158.90/se/Image132.jpg

As you can see, stock fuel injection and intake. There are new 720cc injectors in there though. I have no aftermarket or piggyback timing or fuel computers.
And yes the a/c and p/s do work.

And no, I have not run the N2O on the dyno or track yet.

My cousin's GSL has the dual Weber 36's with the RP intake. I'll try to get you photos of it next. No promises, but I'll try to get him to dyno it soon. Would that make you happy?

BTW - the GSL-SE's rear end does not always work to it's advantage when drag racing. Once you reach higher hp, it makes you shift and extra time. I have to shift into 4th right before the finish, while my cousin can stay in 3rd with his 3.90 rear. It does make a difference.

mar3, this is the car that you asked about earlier. I was going to sell it, but I'll probably hold onto it until the end of the year. Looking to add a S-AFC and S-ITC now to it. Just converted it to direct fire. Also threw new wheel/tires on it.

For the last time... chassis dyno numbers don't mean shit!!

They are great for tuning and testing the effect of modifcations but they are not a 100% reliable indication of your car's horsepower. Anyone who knows a bit about dyno's will tell you this.

LOL!!! Are you crazy?

No no no....

I'm calling bullshit on this one too.

Are you doing these quartermile runs at some very high elevation and in very hot conditions? I ran a 16 flat in my car back when I had RB exhaust and absolutely nothing else. Stock 82 GS, half tank of gas, no weight lightening or anything like that. I'm tellin ya, there's no way I had more than 120 hp at the flywheel at that time.

I think the most likely thing here is that you aren't making the horsepower you think you are. If you really did have 190 horsepower, you'd be running well into the mid 14's, which apparently you aren't. So.... the logical conclusion seems pretty clear.

Please quit repetting what you hear on the internet and go talk to real race car builders.

Why don't you try to convince Jim Downing, Rick Engman, Guch, and many other established race engine builders that they don't know what they are talking about? Do you need their phone numbers?
How about drivers like Gene Wilson (last years World Champion 1/8 mile drag funny car)?
Why don't you call NASCAR and tell them that their contract is a waste of money?
http://www.dynojet.com/auto.shtml

Dynojets are the main established way of measuring a car's true rwhp. No other method is recognized by the industry like Dynojet's Chassis Dynameters.

Lol, you don't know too much about RXcetera if you're talking about him like that:p:

David,

See, the problem is, if you're so experienced, why are you going and saying all these things that even an average rotorhead knows to be off the wall?

I mean, you can argue all you want, but you're betraying your true knowledge level at every step;)

94 degrees (middle of summer), at Commerce, GA (pretty high up, not sure of elevation, generally, a pretty poor track, but NHRA approved - http://www.atlantadragway.com). Stock tires, lots of wheelspin (2.6sec 60'). So yes, not best of conditions. I do get poor launches, not the car, just me.

Fine, don't take my word for it. Call Dynolab, have him fax you the dyno sheet. Right now. You call BS, you'd better be ready to apologize. Take a look for yourself.

Nice driveline loss figure there buddy. These aren't Skylines or WRX's we're talking about here.

So when do we get to see this "experience from years of building rotaries" start to show itself?

It seems to me that those who chirp about how "experienced" they are, are usually the ones who don't know very much at all. It's looking like you're falling into this category.

Are all you Canadians like this? Think you have figured it all out? What a joke. I'm done with this thread. None of you want to learn anything new, all you want to do is call people liars. I don't lie. I have given you what you need to prove it to yourselves.

I've been building them since 96. I have built several 12a's. The people I have learned from have been building them even more years and have been established for decades. What about you?

On driveline losses, ask any established builder or tuner what they say the RX7 losses. They will all say 15%-20%.

Done with you. If need more, PM me.

Lol, why should I waste my long distance dollars on that?? I don't give a shit. Call them yourself and post the dyno sheet up on the forum if you want to justify your claim.

Look, I'm not saying you're lying about your dyno claim; I don't know too much about modified SE's. What I do know a little about are stock 12A FB's, and I'm tellin' ya, they don't run 16.1's when they have 157hp, and they don't have 157hp in the first place with stock ports.

The only logical conclusion I can reach if you're telling me you're running 16's on 190hp is....

a) You have 2000 pounds of groceries and subwoofers in the trunk.

or....

b) You don't have 190 hp.

Which is it?