GSL-SE Fuel Injection Upgrade: Help Please!
 

Hey everybody,

I'm looking to ditch the complicated stock induction setup on my 84 SE. However, I want to stay fuel injected. Have any of you done this? I have found a 6-port 13b injection setup with manifold made by Injection Perfection, and an ECU made by Microtech, but I'm looking for more specific details on how the whole thing goes together. I am also open to other injection solutions if any of you know of alternatives to Injection Perfection and Microtech. Thanks.

-Jan

I am a big fan of Megasquirt, and there are a lot of MS powered first gens out there now. What are your eventual plans for the car, it may make sense to plan for the future with your upgrades now.

Isaac

Why not bolt an RB 6 port to 4bbl mani and use the stock injector placement and rail to fuel it? One could go to larger injectors to suit it, and retune it as necessary. Theres many 4bbl throttle body selections out there, my personal fave beinghttp://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/air-only-version-of-ez-efir-style-precision-cast-throttle-body-assemblyhtml/

^ that TB includes all necessary sensors required to run it, with idle air control. IT also is speed density for that extra clean induction look.

just my .2

@flight of pain: As I understand it, the 6 port 13B's are limited compared to the 4 ports. eventually I would like to swap in a series V turbo engine but run it NA with a full bridge port, EFI and series V NA rotors for the higher compression. The goal is to reach 250-300hp NA with EFI. I don't like the complexity of the SE EFI setup so I figure I can start with switching to an aftermarket setup that could also be swapped over to the new engine when it goes in later down the road. If the Megasquirt is more commonly used on the rotaries, maybe that's the way to go. Plenty of forum support in that case. Thanks for the suggestion.

@wankel=awesome: Hmm, that sounds interesting! Have you done this or know someone that has? which standalone would you suggest for this setup?

I have a running 84 6 port with just that set up, runs an electromotive tec3 tuned by brian at rotorsports racing.

:icon_tup:

Runs great, much more power than stock, gas mileage suffers a bit depending on how you drive it.

The end result is a FI 6 port with no aux port actuators (mine has sleeves) and allows you to run an old school open element breather, with no MAF or any of that garbage.

I have a 12a with that white power pulse air cleaner from RB on the nikki, and this engine sitting next to it, running the 4 1/8 throat version of that breather on my fast TB. They "look like the same engine" to people how dont look twice.

HOWEVER, 300 ponies NA will be rather difficult with this set up. The 2 injectors on just the center iron will have a hard time supporting that much power. The intake mani, TB, and ECU from this set up WILL however support that much power. SO if you went this direction, you could easily reuse this induction for almost any power level from 150-220 using 2 injectors (stock placement) and much much MUCH more power running 2 extra injectors somewhere on the intake mani. The RB manifold has plenty or area to add injector bungs, and almost any machine shop could do it. I am going to go the same direction at some point, and I think ill be able to mod the RB manifold to accept the s4 t2 secondary fuel rail, that way I could just run a t2-esque fuel system.

again, my .2c

PS, if you go this way itll be a 4bbl. Need I say more?

another thing I just thought of, why not just put 12a irons on your SE 13b to make it a 4 port and then bridge that? s3 ftw, youll make your power goals and itll fit like a glove with no special mods!

Thats another thing I had planned....:blush:

The motor in my car is essentially -se housings/rotating assy, with a 12a center iron and r5 outer irons (you could use 12a irons as well). I didn't have a -se center iron with the injector ports, so I machined a spacer to bolt on TII manifolds and hold the primary injectors. The ports are a huge streetport, and while it doesn't make 250-300hp, it is damned quick... and a lot faster than a stock -se motor. If a person didn't need the extra width for injectors, a 4-port or 6-port -se based 13b with later gen intake manifolds would be as simple as a piece of 1/2 plate with a handful of holes in it.

One of the best points toward MSEFI in my opinion is how user friendly it is, easy to build, easy to wire, easy to tune... A few weekends ago we added Ms2V3 on a 323gtx, after wiring and initial settings it was only about an hour before we were doing full boost highway pulls to tune up the top end. The pricepoint of an MS also leaves a lot of room in the budget to improve other areas.

In all reality, it is your car, so go with what feels good to you. If you have any MS questions feel free to PM me.

Isaac

I had no idea 12A irons could be used! The modular nature of these engines is incredible! You guys are really getting me excited with this information! Thanks guys!

As a stage 1 setup, I think a combination of your suggestions may be the way to go. The Fast TB w/RB air cleaner and RB 4bbl to 6 port manifold using stock fuel rail and injector placement, with the more affordable and user friendly Megasquirt ECU. I only have a couple of questions:

@wankel=awesome: How difficult is the sleeve conversion for the aux ports?

@flight of pain: Can the Megasquirt control this setup, eliminating the MAF meter?

Yes, the MS will run anything you can throw at it. For a setup like that I would go ahead and use the GM IAT and CLT sensors for ease of replacement (you can use the stock CLT but it isn't worth the hassle imo). Megasquirt uses MAP sampling, so a single vac line comes from the manifold to the MS unit, no MAF required.

have you ever soldered anything before? Unassembled MS1V3.0 kits are ~$200 these days, and only take a few hours to assemble. I highly recommend www.DIYautotune.com for your odds and sods.

also, take a look at my FB build in my signature, it might give you some inspiration.


Isaac

I didnt install my aux sleeves! Was done by the engines PO... I actually never researched that, because I read somewhere not having the sleeves was better...

So just removing the rotary valves is the way to go? So what do you do about the rotary valves anyway? My guess is to machine the surface flat to accept the RB 6 port mani. Does that sound right?

The manifold mounting face is flat already, the sleeves themselves are a bit of a restriction and without a manifold that utilizes them, then are just a hindrance. The few available inserts just add a ramp to the end of the sleeve, or sleeve area if removed, to make the transition a little less abrupt.

Ok cool. Just for my own clarification, once the oe manifold and rotary valves are removed, the surface can accept the new manifold as is?

Right, which is how I was planning to do mine, until I found out that the sleeves were loctite'd in the place in the open position. If it were me, id just slide them out and forget about it lol

With a new gasket, yes :)

Thank you guys! I hope the two of you don't mind if I lean on your knowledge in the future. I'm pretty knowledgeable but still have a lot to learn, especially about the rotary.

-Jan