FB For HPDE/Track Duty
 

Hey all Im new to the forum because im considering getting an 85 FB or an E36 for HPDE and maybe once a week driving duty.

Can anyone point me to any threads of some of you that use these for dedicated track duty in be interested in hearing recommended and must do upgrades along with safety recommendations.

Thanks in Advance!

Try here https://www.rx7club.com/race-car-tech-103/ as well.

I was deeply involved in the Porsche HPDE world for about 8 years, including administration for a couple of those. We had all kinds of cars run with us including a pickup truck up to several dedicated race cars. In that time I remember 1 or 2 RX8's, but no FB's.

On the other hand, there were lots of E36's. The M3 E36 was considered one of the better DE platforms. There are lots of BMW performance parts vendors, specialty shops, forums, and clubs to help you. E30's are really good entry level platforms, and E46's are excellent too. Just make sure to get the sub-frame issue corrected. But E36's are considered the best balanced.

Hope this helps.

YMMV

I've been doing a bunch of HPDEs with my '85, mostly SSCA TNIA events. It was a low mile car to begin with so it has been reliable thus far and completely stock unless otherwise noted. It's important to get a model with at least the LSD and rear disc brakes unless you want to be spinning the inside tire on every corner. From there, upgrades I had to do include...
1) Suspension - Racing Beat front sway bar, springs and Tokico HP (Blue) shocks, bump stops trimmed about 1"
2) Power - Racing Beat long primary exhaust, deleted air pump, dual belt alternator pulley, and Racing Beat K&N filter on top of the fully stock carburetor
3) Tires - I ran Yokohama S.Drive 205/50R15 on Rota wheels. They were very grippy for intermediate run groups but horrible in wet conditions. I'll be upgrading to stickier rubber this season
4) Brakes - Stock rotors with Hawke HP+ pads and Mazdatrix stainless brake lines.
5) Interior - All stock, but I pull the spare tire and jack out when I arrive at the track. I may get better seats for this season.
All told, I've only put less than $3,000 into it and I still daily drive the car in nice weather and drive to and from the track.

It behaves very well on the track and I've posted a few laps on my YouTube channel below. Obviously right now the weak point is horsepower. There is no keeping up with the guys who know how to drive their modern muscle cars and you'll over drive trying to keep up with any track prepared Miata unless you've got more skill or better tires than the other driver. I kept pace with a late 80's E30 during one event, but once he followed me for a few laps and learned my lines I wasn't able to keep up with him anymore. I've gotten point bys from Porsches and Corvettes and the like...but people with very expensive cars tend to just joy ride while I'm pushing the limits. Overall, it's a momentum style car with very neutral handling and near perfect weight balance that gives you a taste of vintage motoring while not being so old that it becomes unreliable and slow. You can make it fast, but you could make an FC, FD, or Miata faster. So no one is going to pick an FB/SA22C because it's a dominating platform, they're going to pick it to be fun, or possibly to build up an ultimate sleeper.

Impressive, man! That should dispel any myths about the stock suspension not being able to perform well at speed. Did you do anything else to the bushings, Watts Link, or anything?

I have those same tires Yoko SDrives in that same size on my SE, and have never felt they lacked traction until they got old. I changed them at 9yrs for exactly the same tire and have no regrets. Your video shows that I made a good decision,

The only poly bushings I have on the car are for the RB front sway bar. Everything else, believe it or not, is stock and original. The car was garaged its entire life, driven a few hundred miles a year, and kept in a moderate New England climate (never dry, but also never super humid). The rear sway bar bushings show that it's getting close to the point where I need to start replacing everything, but its not there yet. I didn't touch the watts linkage, but I'm also not so low to the point where it makes a difference. My only instability experiences were when I tried out the Racing Beat rear sway bar. that really loosened up the rear end and was a white knuckle experience as the rear end tended to break away mid corner or under any sort of trail braking. The "myths" you heard about the suspension setup are not false, they just only apply to people lowering their cars and putting race rubber on them to push them to the ultimate limit. The general consensus is the suspension is fine if you drop it less than an inch. As for the Yokohamas, they aren't really a track day tire, but they served me well and I kept up with drivers running more sticky Continental tires, but I'm sure you can hear in the video, I was pushing them to the limit. In the end, the car is perfectly fine for a hard drive down a country road or a day spent at the track. It's not fast enough with a stock drivetrain to get you in trouble anyway. I top out at about 100mph on the track when others can easily hit 140mph.

both the Rx7 and the E36 are good track day cars. the Rx7's are a little uncommon these days, its probably due to the age of the cars, they are OLD.
the Rx7 has a huge race pedigree from day 1, and as such the only thing an Rx7 really needs to go to the track is just to replace anything worn.

going faster is pretty straightforward, although you will upgrade most of the systems on the car eventually. the factory competition prep manual is here http://foxed.ca/rx7manual/manuals/comp.manual.pdf that book is from 79, and by the time they were building the 85's they had done a lot of the little upgrades already.

plenty of guys at the track that have taken an old Pro7, or IT car and bridgeported the engine, and then you have something simple fast and cheap

the E36 is a also popular. since its 'german engineered' it needs major upgrades to basically everything to not fall apart.
1. hp/$ is terrible, start with the M3
2. best rule of thumb with a parts catalog is just to buy everything, you will need it.
3. these cars have big structural faults, and there are kits to, attach the rear suspension to the car, and such.
4. the engines wear slowly, but cannot take an overheat, or an over rev without failure, and they do fail. M3 in particular is infamous for throwing rods.
5. parts availability is excellent, stuff is cheap.

once you do all that, the cars are pretty fast

so its up to you, the Rx7 is older and slower, but really needs no more than normal maintenance to be fun on the track. the BMW needs a complete re-engineering to survive (they fall apart in the garage!) but once you do its fast.

i would estimate the cost of the BMW to be at least 3x more than the Mazda, but since there is a double standard, this will be rationalized away.

Is anyone running Techno Toy Tuning rear control arms?