FB GSL-SE = good autox car???
 

as yall might be able to tell from my post count, i'm a bit of a noob on this board. and you can also tell from my signature that i was a previous rx-7 owner, but defied my roots and went piston with my Titan.

i had owned an rx-7 from my senior year of hs a few years ago, when i upgraded my 86 auto for an '87 TII, which i had until this past summer.

i graduated from A&M and moved out here to houston, and quickly realized that a car with no power steering, no A/C, and marginal reliability makes for a terrible daily driver at my first out-of college job here in houston. and so, i bought my truck and sold my TII for $5000 to pay on my credit card.

and now, here i sit 7 months later, and i miss having a great handling sports car. i was on the Formula SAE team at A&M (we got 2nd out of 140 schools!!!), and i started getting involved in autox. i have been to a few events at gulf greyhound park to watch my buddy autox his mustang.

and so, this brings be back to point of this post. i want a fun, older sports car that i can gradually fix up when i have extra money. i want a car that will be a good autox car, and will also offer good suspension tuning capabilities and will last as a competative autox car (with mods...)

i heard that 1st gens dont do so well and aren't good autox cars. but, this comes from someone who is anti-rotary.

i would like to go back to rotarys (something about that engine i cant get away from, and i also have the most automotive experience with the wankel), and i've done the FC. i like the FB since it is lighter and has the potential for the FC TII drivetrain. and because it has a live axle, i could also take it to Houston Raceway Park for some V8 killing :)

The final question: IS IT WORTH POURING MONEY INTO AN FB FOR AUTOX PURPOSES?

i would like to hear some first-hand experience from those who autox with FB / SA's

- mike

Sure its worth it, there are tons of people on here that use their 7's just for auto-x. With some better suspension, front sway bar, and some engine mods you can get yourself started and the GSL-SE is a good car to progressivly upgrade when money is available.

I've been autocrossing my GSL-SE's off and on for almost 10 years now and seem to be doing alright :) My car has simple modifications only.

likely boils down to driver but the only 7 I lost to was an SE. That was last year when I was autoxing the CRX in CSP. (see website) Well actually I lost to ASP FD also but well that doesn't count does it? never lost to an FC. :D

1st gens DECIMATE at autoX. They give the oh-so-coveted-autoX-king Miata a run for it's money, and will likely win.






But after all, autoX is all about driver skill, anyway. I just got bumped up to the "X" class... the experts... and I've only been doing this for 4 years... I don't consider mself an expert, but the registration committee says so. I still think I need a LOT of seat time... but that's also because I'm an autoX addict, and can't get enough of it.

For local autocrossing, you will do fine. In stock class, the prep is simple: add a large front anti-roll bar (1-1/8"), decent shocks (Tokico's), autocross tires, and you are good to go. They are great cars to hone your driving skills on.

I like my car for autocrossing.

If I was a better more consistent driver it could probably do pretty well at the larger events. For now I am happy beating the guys in my small region. ;)

However, to get the car to the national level I would need to get about 200 lbs out of it (not easy/cheap inside the rules) and 25-30 more HP. Right now I am putting 140hp to the ground. Only power mod is the full racing beat exhaust.

If you are looking at buying and keeping the car stock you will run in ES. This is fun class mostly dominated by early Miatas. Get the car in perfect mechanical condition and get the best shocks possible (Tociko Illuminas). Buy brand new OEM springs (needed for rules but after 20 years could probably use freshening). Other than that you can't do too much other than tires. The wheels need to be factory size (14x5.5) the tires just need to fit those wheel and the wheel wells.

CSP is the next step up and will take some more work. If you buy the car slightly modified you will need to make sure those modifications are legal for CSP. Most typical things are legal but a few aren't.

STS2 is also a great class (if available in your region) for a lightly modded car.

If you put in a TII the lowest class possible would be SM2...good luck.

awesome! thanks for the replies and tips. i posted something similar on nopistons and only got like 2 replies after a week. i was on nopistons for a number of years (800+ posts), but it seems like the only section that gets new threads is the GenD, and that's all threads with a bunch of pointless inside jokes.

not much good new info, and if you do post a new topic, the replies are usually "search".

i've been on TitanTalk for my truck, and that forum has an older, more mature crowd with better advice and more serious talk.

again, thanks for the help. i'm going to start saving up a couple of $1000 for a GLS-SE, preferably black, dark grey (to match the titan :) ) or white (to be painted later).

i plan on using this as a gradual project car, something i couldn't do with my FC TII since i was in a dorm and used my car as my daily driver.

from looking around on mazdatrix, VB, and RB it seems there is a lot of performance product support for 1st gens. like i said, i will be using this car to get into autox, and start going with suspension, brake, and basic power upgrades. then, i hope to get going with exterior cleanup and upgrades (rims, spoilers & skirts, etc).

now it's a matter of finding the right FB to start with...

1st gens make decent, cheap AutoXers. I run my 12a car in CSP, my -SE will run EM next season. If you stay stock, do not buy new OEM springs. Springs never lose their spring rate. You actually want the oldest saggiest stock springs you can find. You can run STS2 but not in an -SE because of the clutch-type LSD.

Agree with Crazy Joe on the springs. Do not buy new stock springs. You will end up with positive camber!

Stay in ES. Focus on your driving first and spend money later.

see, now that's the hard part. i have this addiction to constantly upgrading my cars.

i thought with a new truck, i would be safe. not the case.

i've already added flowmaster dual in / dual out, ss brake lines, and i was starting to entertain the idea of the stillen supercharger coming out for the titan this year.

a 6" pro-comp lift was also looking appealing.

as yall can see, modding a FB will be cheaper and yeild much more useful, enjoyable, time-consuming benifits. :)

I never said spring rate would change. That was what you assumed I was talking about. I think the bigger issue is if you have a spring that is sagging you don't know how much each has sagged and there is no way to know if the balance of the car has changed. Since there is no way to change the cornerweight (no coilovers) starting with fresh (assumed to be consistent) springs you are at least that much closer to a properly (at least the way Mazda intended it) balanced car. The other issue is that if you are on springs that are sagging to the point that the bumpstops are coming into play under the extreme conditions of autocrossing you have lost all hope in being able to properly tune the shocks, tire pressures or any other variable. The bumpstops have a significanlty higher spring rate that will cause high amounts of US/OS depending on which are (front or rear) are coming into the picture first. Essentially you have an unpredictable car.

Also, I think saying that spring isn't effect is only partially true. If the spring is sagging you more than likely have less active coils and therefore have changed the spring rate...higher or lower?

I suppose the optimum stock class springs would be sagging, yet consistent springs of a known/correct spring rate. I'm sure if you really wanted to you could dig through piles of springs to find a matching set. Each would have to be tested though.

The positive camber is another issue altogether...that I didn't think about. It is a very valid point and should be considered. Not sure if you will in all reality have positive camber but you will most definitely have less negative camber.

Also, I am of the belief that that spirit of the rules in STS2 is to keep the LSDs to the original equipement non-Torsen type. Most rules supplemental rules I have read say "Original equipment viscous". Only time will tell how this issue unfolds.

No matter what the GSL-SE makes a good autocross car.

Thanks for keeping me inline.

The ideal stock springs for autocrossing in stock class are those that have maybe 50k miles on them, but have not rusted or otherwise deterioriated. These would be springs that have settled but not damaged by the elements.

I know about the positive camber thing as in the '80's I experimented with multiple stock springs to create a stock set that helped with the cornerweights and camber, and were consistent on spring rates.

On the cornerweight issue, the springs when new they all have some variation in spring rates as well as a tendency to "settle" differently. However, the variation is not great enough for 99% of the drivers to notice. You can play some games by preloading the sway bars, but that also introduces different spring rates.

Just drive the car. Unless the springs are really bad, don't even worry about it.

yes

I wish my head would let me do that. When I stop thinking I am usually a more effective tool.

black gsl-ses are the best.

I'm going to be running my 85 GS in STS2, I think it's the place that it's going to be most competitive. The RX7 is going to respond to the allowed mods much better than the Miata's and CRX's in that class so I think it's going to be a much different story than CSP where these cars usually meet.