Drivability
 

Hey Guys,
Well I basically had to take a little break from my turboed 12a for a while, its driving me insane. I realize now that the car that I wanted to build ( and I did build it) sucks to drive everyday. Nothing but noise complaints from neighbors, plume of smoke everytime its started, bucking/bogging, lean sometimes, rich othertimes, and I always smell like my car. So I broke down and bought a BMW just to drive everyday and let my car sit for awhile. Ive gone thru about 5 different e-tubes, main, air correctors, idle jets, all sorts of combos and progressive changes to try and get rid of some of the symptoms Ive been having, but Im pretty sure what im experiencing is just the way the carb is.

I really would like to know if anyone has ever tuned up a weber sidedraft as drivable as the stock nikki. Sure my car hauls ass and all but all the little downsides are adding up. Im considering possibly a turbo prepped holley or possible FI.
What advice can you give me or maybe your past experiences. Im in need of some inspiration.
Thanks all

I'd say EFI since you seem to have a mind for tuning, and want to rule out all the rich and lean spots. EFI can allow you to do that.

I Would Go Efi If I Did Not Want Any Nagging Problems
On The Other Hand Carb Cars Are Fun To Drive If You Can Tune The Webber Fine Or Else Back To The Nikki:)

EFI if you can afford it.

And your capital letters are killing my eyes Toyotaguy.... Please make it stop. :(

im not doing it!

ok maybe i was. sorry force of habit.

How do you develope that kind of habit? I'm just curious.

What would you recommend as a reliable fuel controller? I would like to get the upper intake manifold similiar to the sidedraft manifold but with 2 injector bungs. I would like to keep the stock dizzy and simply be able to tune the fuel curve to start with. Any suggestions?

:lol:

The problem with turboing a sidedraft is you have to tune it to run at wide open throttle. I personally don't like the "2 barrel" limitations. When you are at idle to 3/4 throttle, you will be running rich. The most commen problem I see with people trying to do a blowthrough, is timing, plugs, and fuel pressure. If you are not running a high pressure pump with a boost referanced regulator, you will never get it to run right. There again, if you don't have the supporting ignition setup, you will never get it to run right. I have been running my setup for about a year now, and it runs awsome. Would I use it for a DD? at 12 to 15 mpg, at $3.15 a gallon? Never. BTW, I drive a BMW as a DD also:).

Hey Qbuilt check out a megasquirt. If your like me and have more time than money it's a option. I'm in the middle of a megasquirt/ gm throttle body/ turbo 12a project now. I'll let you know how it comes out

Keep us updated. I think in the long run, I want to run megasquirt and eventually go turbo. I've been looking at the Weber style throttle bodies like the ones from Injection Perfection.

Ah,the joys of daily driven turbo EFI.......sorry,that probably didnt help you much!
But yea,seriously consider EFI if your looking to make your turbo rotary civilized.Itll require a lot more custom work,since you have a 12A,but a fully tuned standalone will be smoother and more reliable than the stock TII fuel injection.....which is pretty damn nice itself,when maintained and cared for properly.

Plumes of smoke huh......maybe figure a rebuild or a re-seal while your at it?

My car does run absolutely great at wide open throttle and even at cruising conditions. However I strongly believe that I have tuned this carb to its maximum potential and im really not happy. I have a full MSD direct fire setup, 2 cdi coils on leading and 1 canister on trailing. I run a walbro 190 with a Beastly Rising rate Aeromotive regulater 1:1. I think I have built everything properly and have the car running at its maximum potential, I just overlooked the drivability ( cold+hot starts, fuel economy, noise, ride quality).
The plume of smoke at start up is due to me running a little to much premix at times and the weber, for some reason floods the engine a bit once shut off. If I turn off my fuel pump and let the car die, when restarted, theres no smoke. Damaged needle+seat possibly???
Ive considered selling the car or possibly parting out, but I have so many hours of labour into the car to just give up, plus the first gen is the only car that I really, really :boink: , love

You may have hit on a major cause of the entire driveability issue. Bad needles and seats. Try a new set, it's not much for a rebuild kit compared to the price of fuel now days.

hey again,
I agree with the fact that EFI is a far superior setup (obviously).

For the record I rebuilt that carb with a kit from rotaryshack just a little while before I sold it to you. The rebuild kit is not very extensive though, as you know the carb is extremely simple and just the basics. Just the nature of a 2 barrel carb is what I think is alot of your problems. They are designed for WOT as alot of the other guys have mentioned. Not the most practical setup for a daily driven car, but excellent for a quick car.

To be honest with you reliability and ease of tuning is a huge reason I decided on going fuel injected and beyond the simplicity of the weber. It may be more involved with initally setting up the vehicle, but in the long run it's far superior.

I know what you mean with the loud noise, smelling like the car all the time, neighbors complaining... I have been through all of that before, unfortunately thats some of the problems that come with the rotarys. At the end of the day thats just some of the down sides to having a rotary vehicle, it's got it's downsides.

Maybe chat a little bit with Robert (rotaryshack), and get some suggestions from him. Excellent guy and he could deffinately point you in the right direction to help you with alot of your problems.

I'd been having problems with the DCDs leaking fuel into the primary and secondary barrels, so I bought a true Weber rebuild kit. Turned out the carbs had fresh needles, seats and gaskets. But they weren't Weber's. Made all the difference right there.

Not questioning Dan's work, he's very conscientious.

I think ill check out the float level sometime this weekend. I dont know how the needle+seat would of got damaged, but maybe ill give that a look. I never had this problem awhile ago!
Is it a typical problem for webers to be hard hot starting?? What would cause fuel to seep into the engine while just sitting there??
Ive lowered my fuel pressure to almost 2psi and it still happens, but then the car goes lean when on boost for more then 4-5 seconds.

+1, on the genuine factory carb parts.Im in the middle of setting the carbs on my little Bandit 400 and its damn near impossible to get all 4 carbs even with anything but factory Mikuni jets.There is a difference,so get the real stuff.

Also,be careful with the excessive premix oil.It not only reduces the octane of the gas,but it can hurt performance as well.

When I was waiting for my S5 front cover to be finished,I left my mechanical S4 OMP intact at idle postion and ran some premix oil to boot.The car had no power and felt like it was in limp mode on the ECU (it wasnt)
After I got my oiling system squared away it still ran poorly until I burned off all the premix and filled up with a straight tank of fresh 91 octane.In an instant,all my power and response was back,just like that.

I finally checked the float level today, it was quite a bit out of spec. The specs i have are 12.5mm to the tip of the float from the gasket surface when just making contact with the ball seat. Then 25mm at full swing. I couldnt set it to 25mm because then the ball seat wanted to fall out of the body. So I set it at 20mm approx.
I havent drove the car yet, but dont really expect it to make a huge difference. Im really stumped on the 1st gear problem I have. I just dont get why when I stomp on it in first gear it just goes rich. Accel pump size doesnt matter, neither does e-tube or mains. ????? I guess ill find out tommorow if the float setting made a difference.
Thanks for all the input guys, if you have any ideas please post.

I drove the car today with the newly set to spec float level. The problem is acaully worse. I believe I need to weaken the progression circuit. So im going to try smaller mains and possibly leaner e-tubes.

Has anyone ever experienced this?? Its the real thing bugging me about my car.

I am all for 2 barrel sidedraft webs!

I just need to get mine tuned as well :(

105 miles to the last TANK

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