600 HP 12a
 

First off, this thread is for the people who are highly experienced in this field.

I have plenty done to my 12a to hold the power. Here it is:

85 psi oil pressure regulator
factory hardened race oil pump
hardened stationary gears with 3 window race bearing on rear
dynamic balance
dowel pinning
ceramic coated rotor housings
all new seals and springs
viton oil control ring o rings
competition oil control ring springs
3rd gen side seal springs
oil jet mod
9.2:1 compression rotors
standalone engine management

is there anyhthing else that you think that I need to make the motor withstand this abuse of 600 hp? Such things that come to mind are:

race clearencing of rotors (i plan to only go to 8300 rpm)
larger oil pump (the one i have now is 17.5 mm wide and diameter is same as 12a)

Let me know....

how much boost are you planning on using to hit this? from what turbo. and what manifolds are you using? also, i hope your engine management isnt microtech :eek: haltech is the way to go! :p:

oh and you might want to port the fuck outta that motor. haha.. a good half bridge will do.

But then you'd be going over the rpm limit that you have set..... Sure you don't want to build it to rev higher than 8300? :)

i thought this thread was by someone who BUILT a 600hp 12a.

turbo extend ports are the way to go.. bridges are too much hard work to get boosting properly.

Sounds like youve got a strong engine, but as was asked before... how much boost??
What management you using?? what intake?? How many dowels? How often do you want to drive it???

Any car can have 600hp or even more... for a few seconds :P

sounds like a good project
-James

i would go up to 110psi and balance the rotating assembly. consider drysump. steel seals will work up to 8500rpms but ceramics seal better and take detonation better. and increase hp due to tighter clearances.

best of luck, sounds like fun. keep us updated.

ok first of all, this thread is asking what is needed to WITHSTAND 600 horsepower. I am fully aware of porting and other stuff needed. Also, yes, I am running a haltech e6x.

Thanks Drivefast7... that's what i was looking for. I dont need to rev it super high, and i am fine with the steel seals. I will be balancing the assembly. I will consider the dry sump.

Where do you get the factory hardened race oil pump and how are you gettign 9.2:1 compression rotar's? Are you using 13B S5 rotar's or just modifyed 12a rotar's? Also have you considered lightening the rotar's?

What is the Drysump setup? and what performance's do you gain from it?

you will need a 76mm turbo, 3 1/2 inch exhaust, 4 1,600 injectors a weldon 2035 fuel pump, bridgeport, pinned motor, race seals, hi-volume oil pump, rps turbo clutch, turbo 2 tranny, 2 msd 6al units, race spark plugs, halltech or motech ecu,to start with... lots of tuning too

unnessisary .. no performance gain,

Cool thanks where can I find one of the high valume Oil pumps I was looking at an extra one and I could just mod it but I was just curious if there not that spendy I may just buy one.

Also just thoguth of something that dosent make sense what does a pinned motor refer to and is that the same thing as dowel pinned?

yes,

and racingbeat carries the hi volume oil pumps

Cool thanks man ..... what does the Pinned dowel's do anyway is there some performance gain? Isit something that can be easily done? What does it intail?

Hi My friend have a 12A whid 504.8 BHP at 1.36 bar boost --

U can look on this at www.simtechracing.no

He dident get the boost up more in the dyno. On streat he have 1.7bar boost

half bridge buddy... that with the haltech will rock out all day long and still be reliable. i get to drive one myself here quite often. cranks right up and goes. makes 430rwhp at 18psi on a small ass 60-1. with a 76mm like robert was saying, over 600 is very possible. oh and tuning is tuning, if you get someone who knows the ecu you are using it shouldnt be a big deal... but the real horsepower lies in the tuner that really understands the rotary and the timing it takes to get that bump in power ;)

WELL, LET me THINK.......... make (3) 12a's, each one with 200 hp. That should do it nicely. Or maybe a 6 rotor, hmmmm. Haha, j/k buddy!! Later bro

Argh!!!! Who Does Dowel Pinning Or Tension Studding Around Here?????

yes, pinned - dowel-pinned

the RB oil pump is a great idea for a 12A buildup. however, alternatively, you could get the FD rear oil pressure regulator.

use GSL-SE oil pump.

Hey guys,

Id like to ask, is there one or more 12A's here that do actually make over 500HP on this forum? I want aware of any, except that norwegian RX-2 with 505.

Anyone?

i don't know about HP, but i do know abotu a turbocharged 12A SE that's running 10's ...

I made 496.2hp on 25 psi. Not quite 500 but im getting there.

what size turbo are you using for that? i was thinking Garrett to4E 57 trim compressor with a .7 A/R P trim turbine

Um..no. 1.36 bar = 20.4 lbs of boost.
The car did 504 hp, at 28 psi.

big difference

still impressive, its at the wheels, which is about 650 at the engine. Lots of power out of a 12a.

Still no. More like 566 flywheel HP.

Impressive neverthe less.

usually you lose 23% on a rear drive car, at least. The 3rd gen loses 23%, so does the 2nd gen and 1st gen.

the number you quoted is 11.66%. That's less than what front wheel drive loses.

Where did you get that 23% for a third gen?

omg that vid of that 12a full bridge turbo 650hp I believe that is so sick. I just picked up a 85 gsl, I'm so f***in happy. I like it more than my turbo vert, but it is slow ass dog piss cause it's stock

No much larger than that. Garrett TA45 74mm compressor wheel and an R trim turbine 1.15 A/R.

3rd gens make 255 bhp and roughly 200 rwhp. 23% of 255 is 196.xxx
thats where i get it.

an R trim turbine???? when the hell does this turbo make full boost? haha

At about 6500rpm.

holy fuck, when do you start boosting?

Starts boosting at about 4000. Have 9 psi by 4750 rpm, 15 psi at about 5500 rpm and 25 psi at 6300 rpm.

almost sounds like my friends t78 supra.... you dont drive this on the street do you? thats gotta get aggrivating (sp?). i wouldnt want my full boost to come up any later than 4500. then it's just a highway car eh? then again, i've never driven a 1st gen running that much boost :p:

Yeah it gets driven on the street often. Not on 25 psi though, that is only at the track with c16. Only gets 15 psi with pump fuel.

PM if you want to know more about my set up.

Pinning the rotor is drilling through the bearing into the rotor and inserting a dowel to keep the bearings from spinning inside the rotors. I've only heard of doing it for high RPM (9-10k+) engines, but it's not a bad idea for lower rev engines, considering I've spun bearings twice in mine (stock 12A).

On clearances -- I've heard you cannot get longevity until you get to 5 thousands on the main's. I've always run on the max according to the manual, and keep having bearing trouble so I'll be trying this on the next motor. Of course, this is with a motor putting out ~120RWHP, so you're on your own putting out 5 times that.

if not mazda comp has them as well :bigthumb:

lot a stress with a 12a for 600hp

Yep, and 10 years later - I don't see any updates, so I'm not sure he even finished the project!