I am building S3 13B and plan on using the 5/6 port sleeves with Pineapple inserts. However this engine is using weber IDA and not the OE EFI manifold. So the question is, how do I retain the Port Sleeves and keep them open all the time.

Should I use JB Weld or something else to hold them open. Looking for ideas

 

Check out the Atkins sleeves instead

 

Glad you asked this! I am running a dellorto on a 6 port and wanted to know what to do with my sleeves. The mani is a rotary shack one piece unit. Atkins you say...

84-92 Rx7 Atkins Designed Six Port Actuator...

this?

 

This is probably a dumb question, but here goes: Is there a carb/upper intake that bolts onto the GSL-SE lower intake manifold? If so, I would think you could still use the 5/6 ports like stock by using the exhaust gases. If you leave the ports open, you would lose some low end power.

 

Sure you can use a side draft upper intake with a weber. If you chose to use a holley though you have to change to a different intake leaving the 5th and 6th ports open, which I hear with the holley still gives you good power.

Back on topic though I looked at those atkins sleeves and like those a whole lot better than just the inserts, but still is it worth removing the intake for what they say is good for around 5hp? I'm courius cause I'm thinking about doing it my self, but I just don't know if it will even be noticable.

 

edit doh...

 

Thanks for the replies but I think I need to fill in a few blanks.

A Weber IDA is a down draft car and uses a dedicated manifold. So the port actuators are not used/available.

Using Akins sleeves solves nothing as they are designed to be used with the stock actuators.

So I will be installing the stock sleeve with Pineapple a insert installed. The insert is captive in the sleeve. However, without the actuators nothing holds the sleeves where I want them to be - open.

So, looking for advice on a good adhesive/epoxy that can handle the heat and vibration.

 

Some people on this forum (and in the Turrentine rebuild DVD) fill the end of the aux ports with Devcon or a similar epoxy and sculpt it so the air flows smoothly out of the port. Obviously, this is removing the sleeves completely.

Or if you don't want to use that much, perhaps put some in between the sleeve and the inside of the runner to hold it in place.

I've never done either of these methods, just what I've read.

I think rotarygod said that the biggest disruption to flow is the actuator rods and the pins on the inserts.

 

Putting pineapple inserts in the stock sleeves is the same as buy the atkins sleeves. The only difference is with the atkins ones there one piece therefor you don't ever have to worry about them coming unglued. Even though they cost more I would get the atkins ones, but I'm still not sure if you could actually tell a difference in power either way.

 

Yeah but no one is answering the question...how do you keep them from rotating into a closed position when using an aftermarket manifold? I would want to run the sleeves either atkins or pinapple in the open position because on the top end its good for between 5-8hp. Im not sure what happens if you leave them out completely.

 

I installed an RB holley intake manifold on a 6 port and left the sleeves out. Doesn't seem to hurt anything.

As for your question, not even I have figured out a good way to keep the sleeves from rotating, so I left them out.

However, I wonder if you could slather some RTV in the hole, then push the sleeves in. The RTV is weak enough that you could probably pull them back out in the future if you had to, but will be resilient enough that it will hold the sleeves in an open position. That's as far as I got in a thought experiment but didn't go through with it in real life. I wasn't worried about the RTV gooping into the sleeve as I would be careful and pay attention to where it would end up; I just never went through with it because 6 ports aren't really my thing. Plus the holley manifold with an edelbrock worked fine without sleeves.

 

i have a stock lower with the actutor shafts removed and plugged. no sleeves. have been running all my 6 port engines this way, just need to tune for it. all my engines have ran great at low end and suffered no ill effect on top end at all. give it a try you might like it.

 

Thanks for the responses. I had forgotten about Devcon....so I went to McMasterCarr and found several high temp adhesives. I don't plan on pulling them out.

I know that the sleeves can be left out and that works but improving the shape of the end of the port should have merit.

 

I was always under the impression that taking the sleeves out would effect the low end power? You guys haven't had an issue?

 

If you leave them wide open on a stock exhaust, stock intake and stock ecu you will lose low end power.

 

check with Jessie Prather. he builds alot of 6 port motors that make real good power, ask him what he recommends

 

If you're trying to get a 4 port motor out of a 6 port - don't. Just swap for a 4 port motor. That or actuate the 6 ports properly, by exhaust backpressure or 3800rpm and near atmospheric intake manifold pressure. but thats like, my opinion man.

 

Its not on their site, but Goopy performance sells inserts that are to be permanently fixed via epoxy inside of the aux port runners for cars with the actuators completely eliminated. They are machined aluminum ramps, like the ones shown above, but are made to fit the bore of the port by themselves. You could try giving Jon a call and ask about them

 

If you're willing to go 'low-tech', just grab some coathanger or bailing wire and wire the actuators in the OPEN position. Not hard, not permanent, and if you change your mind later on and want to use exhaust backpressure to operate the actuators, you just hook them up without even messing with removal of the upper/lower intake manifold.

Personally, I've kept my running, because even with Racing Beat headers and clear exhaust (powerpulse muffler and a presilencer), you can tell when the actuators get gummed up - you lose off the line acceleration, because the ports aren't open.

 

Thanks for the info regarding the inserts that Goopy makes!

I should point out that this engine is for a club racing application so off the line performance is not that important. With the trans I am using (1.8L Miata gear set) and the final drive gear (4.88 or 4.44) the engine will rarely see anything below 5K RPM on the track.

Also since this engine is being built to meet an SCCA STU class spec I have to use an engine produced in the same model run as the car. The 13B NA 6 port fits the spec and a 13B NA 4 port does not. So the plan is to build a 6 port 13B that is street ported and running a 51mm Weber IDA with 42mm chokes.

I do have the option of building a Bridge Port 13B for a 300lb weight penalty over the street ported engine - 2300 for the street port and 2600 for the bridge port. The other option I have is to run with NASA at which point I can do what ever I want with the limit only being what my Wife lets me spend

 

I installed mines with Loctite 620 (green color) which is a hard bearing compound apply the Loctite all around the sleeve and slide it in the port and wait about a day to setup, make sure you peen the insert with the sleeve so it wont come out. If you street port the 13b 6 port don't open the aux port leave them factory, you will see a slight not mayor improvement above 5000rpm. PS, that 51mm weber IDA is a lot of carb for a 6port, hope works well let me know! Rot

 

has any one tried silicone? I was thinking ultra copper would stop them from turning or sliding out.

 

My 190whp 13b had the pineapple inserts JB welded into the sleeves and the sleeves JB welded into the block. The thing saw over 40k in my possession an it still runs strong in a friends car.

 

Yeah, the pineapple inserts are pretty legit. If the atkins are the same thing all as one piece, id say go with them. BUT if what im reading about the goopy inserts being designed to run without the actuator rod, and in the open position all the time id say that it would be ideal...

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will go with JB Weld because it can handle the heat and I too have had good luck with it holding other things in place.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes.