(COOLING/OIL) O ring replace, 85 12a (Beehive) Cooler – how many bolts?
 

O ring replacement on a 85 12a (Beehive) Cooler – how many bolts (2 or 3?) to get the cooler off?

Started the process of replacing the O rings on my 85 12a. Could not get the famous ‘Banjo” bolt/connection lose (if I pulled any harder I was afraid I might break something else), so I disconnected the hard line at the front of the motor. Removed 2 of the nuts on the bolts that are the lowest ones (are the 3 bolts/nuts that are just under the finned part of the cooler the ones that the manual says “do not remove”?). Did I remove the correct nuts? Is there a 3rd nut, e.g. cooler still does not come off, (e.g. still feels like something is holding it?). Is there a 3rd nut that I am not seeing?

Coolant hoses are disconnected (got new preformed ones from dealer) – 20 years old best to replace them, plus do not want to go through removing the oil cooler again anytime soon!!! There is also a hose that runs from the fire wall (assume part of heating system) that connects just below the cooler. I think I will order it also, e.g. much easier to replace it with the cooler out than have to do it later with the cooler in place.

Plan on replacing all 4 O rings. I understand from searching on this subject that there are 4 O rings, 2 under the cooler and 2 under the pestle? However, I saw one recent posting that implies that 2 of the 4 O rings are in that part of the cooler where the factory manual says “do not remove”? Could someone who has had their cooler off a 84 or 85 advise me exactly where the O rings are that I need to replace. Is there 2 additional O rings under the pestle mounted below the cooler and if so will it be obvious how to get to them and change them after I get the cooler out OR are the second 2 O rings inside the cooler, e.g. have to take it apart (removing the 3 nuts from the bolts that the factory manual says “do not remove”)?

Looks like 2.

Rich

replace the 4 o-rings or else you will have a mess! there are three nuts holding the beehive oil cooler on the pedistal. While you are at it , this is a good time to replace the coolant hose that goes from engine block to bottom of oil cooler. During oil filter changes, oil drips on the coolant hose, and it will eventually blow. At least check it for softness.

The coolant hose blew in 1996, so I should be good tp 2009 assuming that it was the original hose. If it does blow, a temporary fix would be either cut the bad end off and reattach, or use some 1/2 inch generic coolant hose from Autozone or whatever.

Yep, my mistake...the picture is of the two bolts holes that mount the pedastal, not the beehive...sorry.

OK, 3 nuts to remove to get the Beehive Cooler off. The third nut was not obvious. I will have to look for it tonight!!! Any suggestions for getting to it, e.g. I removed the other 2 nuts from underneath the car.

And I bought new preformed hoses from the dealer to replace the coolant hoses. So both coolant hoses will be replaced. Plus, I am now thinking of changing the third hose that connects to a fitting underneath the Cooler (not to the Cooler), e.g. easier to get to it while cooler is out.

But still open question on:
O rings, e.g. I understand there will be 2 when I remove the Beehive Cooler, but is the second set under the pestle or do I have to take the Beehive Cooler apart? In reading the history file, I get conflicting advise here, e.g. some imply the second set of O rings are under the pestle, where it connects to the block and other comments seem to indicate you have to take the Beehive Cooler apart to get to the second set of O rings. So which is it? Or are there 6 O rings that should be replaced?

The picture in haynes manual looks as if there is a hole for a support bolt on the base of the cooler. It does not show whether this is on the block side (of the cooler) or not.
I have an 83, which also uses the beehive, and I will be back dating the car with an older radiator and cooler, once I have aquired all the parts including new oil lines.
If you locate an extra bolt holding the cooler to the block, post back with details.

I have another question:

Do you have to drain your oil or coolant before removing this beehive? I assume that 90% of oil settles to the pan and wouldn't be a problem, but I'm pretty sure that the coolant system is topped right up, since you don't want air pockets in your coolant. If this is the case, then removing the pedestal without first draining your coolant would lead to a coolant leak.

Am I being paranoid, or is this an actual concern? I want to remove my oil cooler to wire brush it clean and replace the o-rings, but if I don't have to drain my coolant system then I won't. If I do, then I'll have to devote a little more time around the project for draining, flushing (which I'd do whenever I drain), refilling and removing air pockets etc...

Jon

I am reasonably sure the coolant will need to be drained, or it will likely make a large puddle. Since it is fed from the block, I assume it will drain part of the coolant from the engine.
As for the oil draining back into the motor, I have no idea. I know that when I changed the oil & filter, it poured oil out of the filter as I lifted it off the cooler. Made a nice mess of the cooler and everything below it.

I drained approx. 2 qts of coolant and still not enough, e.g. when I pulled the lower coolant line I had to catch some of the coolant in a pan from below - I need to drain some more before pulling the hose completly off - I suppose it would be best to drain all that you can get from the block

Back to my original question, still looking for an answer to where the 2nd set of O rings are located

I am assuming the second set are indeed located under the cooler, where those 3 nuts that are labeled "Never remove" are located.
I have never removed a beehive (yet), so the best I can do is guess.

4 o-rings, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom of the beehive in recessed openings. While you have it out, take it to a garage to have the insides flushed. A small mirror on a telescoping antennae is useful for finding the third nut.

I flush my cooling system with water, and then drain it. I hate getting that stuff on hands and paint.

flushing and leaving plain water is a good idea

"2 on the top and 2 on the bottom of the beehive" ????? when I remove the beehive, will the bottom of what I take off be what you are calling the bottom or top? - its still not clear to me where all the O rings go. Originally I thought you removed the beehive and replaced the 2 O rings there, then took off the pestle and replaced 2 more - but some on the forum seem to be saying that the 2nd set of O rings are in between the finned part of the cooler and the bottom piece that attaches the pestle. So I know that 2 of the O rings go where I separate the cooler from the pestle. But do I remove the pestle and install 2 more O rings or do I remove the 3 bolts just below the finned part (the bolts the factory manual says do not remove) and install O rings 3 & 4 there?

If you have a couple hundred bucks handy, now would be a very good time to scrap that useless beehive altogether and swap in a much more efficient under-rad oil cooler. Also, it's way easier to install than the beehive and will free up space under the hood. And changing out the clutch slave cylinder will no longer be such a bitch of a task. :cool:

I just swapped out engines this past weekend, and the beehive has 3 bolts altogether, I only replaced two O-rings between the hive and pedestal.

my 1983 beehive had 2 o-rings on the bottom and two on the top (the o-rings were identical) , three nuts attached the beehive to the pedistal. The nuts were a real pain to get to with the engine installed.
I first tried just replacing the 2 o-rings, oil went everywhere upon start up (antifreeze also went everywhere). And this was in an apartment parking lot where I wasn't supposed to work on cars. No one said anything to me, I looked to pissed off, grungy, and tired. And that mushroom brass thing is the oil pressure sensor, I forgot to install that too.

With so many things going on at once, I can't recall now if I had to remove the pedistal and beehive together. It was a pain, as you well know now.

The beehive is quite efficient for normal use even in 100 degree temperatures.

If you feel a need to replace it, then the easiest way is to backdate to the earlier FMOC and radiator. The latter is shorter to allow the oil cooler to be mounted underneath.

I'm still not clear where the 2nd set of O rings are - guess I will just have to find the 3rd bolt and remove the cooler and hopefully the location of the 2nd set of O rings will be obvious

As for replacing the BeeHive, this is a mint 85 with 59K original miles, so I would like to keep it 100% original

These are the first two O-rings:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...d/f42ae928.jpg

These are the second pair O-rings:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...6/f42ae92d.jpg

And this was one of the nuts that took me over 3 days to remove:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...9/f42ae8e6.jpg


Hope this helps!

darkfrost - Thanks - the pictures really help - someone should post this to FAQ

Question on re-installing: Is it better to mount the finned part to the pestle then install it or put the pestle on, then mount the finned part to the pestle as step #2?

So if you have the beehive, could you start by taking the finned part off (even though the manual says "do not remove") vs. at the pestle connection to the engine block, e.g. if those bolts are easier to get to? [ask for future people trying to tackle this very unpleasant chore - I already have 2 of the 3 bolts holding the pestle to the engine block off & the bolts holding the finned part to the pestle seemed like they might have been easier to get to, even though the factory manual says "do not remove", so I did not start with them - also have seen some posts where the poster said they did not see the 2nd set of O rings, thus did not change them - I suppose they also saw the "do not remove" notice in the manual!!!]

And yea Jon did come down and proclaim:


ARCHIVED!

darkfrost, that 3rd nut gave you one hell of a wrestling match!! Ya, I've been there too!

As for Mach, maybe the 2nd set of o-rings were under the pedistal. My rebuilt engine install took 3 weeks to get everything sorted out. The beehive issue was the 3rd most challenging issue which was followed by timing, and busted water pump housing issues.

Since/whenever you get the beehive out, have a processional flush it

okay, that was weird... I didn't even go into the Edit window.... I went into the posting window..

wtf?

Oh well.. it's archived anyway.

Jon