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Old 05-11-13, 06:39 PM   #1
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LSX swap.

...sooo yeah,

what does an LSX swap require besides the swap kit (if you use the Hinson kit)?

What is the best overal LSX and transmission to use? (considering price, power, and quality) The GTO engine?

What needs to be modified?

What happens to A/C and P/S?

Are the wiring mods and gauge mods a lot of work?

Do you need to upgrade the rear end if it's an NA base car?
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Old 05-11-13, 08:28 PM   #2
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Honestly it all depends on what you'll be using the car for, how much you want to spend, and what your build timeline looks like. Some things will be regardless across the board but a little info on what you're looking to do will help.
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Old 05-11-13, 09:00 PM   #3
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Go really fast for less than $10,000. Autocross, street, and track day.

But since I'm from AL I might just do a turnkey build... just want to know if the $3000 in labor is worth the difference.
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Old 05-11-13, 10:40 PM   #4
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Try the v8 section.

Rotary > Pistons
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Old 05-12-13, 12:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
Go really fast for less than $10,000. Autocross, street, and track day.

But since I'm from AL I might just do a turnkey build... just want to know if the $3000 in labor is worth the difference.
If you're building it for fun I'd just find a crashed GTO with a good drive train. Quick rebuild with upgrade internals and swap kit. From my understanding the rear end will need upgraded if you'll be pushing it hard. Specifics would definitely be in the V8 section though. I've seen S13s LS1 and LS3 swapped with a T56 tranny fully rebuilt for around the 10 grand mark So I'd take a leap and say you could do it right for 10-15 K from start to finish. Also, what do you mean by the extra 3000?
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Old 05-12-13, 03:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wthdidusay82 View Post
try the v8 section.

Rotary > pistons
This!

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well it does get tiring seeing so many people bash on the rotary, give up, install a LS engine that is only 5 years old and say it is the best thing they ever did for their car.
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Old 05-12-13, 05:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post

What needs to be modified?

What happens to A/C and P/S?

Are the wiring mods and gauge mods a lot of work?

Do you need to upgrade the rear end if it's an NA base car?
First of all, don't use the Hinson kit, use Ronin Speedworks.

Pretty much everything needs to be modified...fuel delivery, exhaust, electrical, cooling.

Both AC and PS can be retained if desired.

The wiring needed to just get running is actually quite minimal, it gets more involved if you want the new ECU to control things like the efans, etc.

All your sub-gauges (fuel level, oil pressure, water temp, voltage) will work as before (assuming you reuse the stock sending units).
The tach signal will require "conditioning" to read the new coils properly (Digital Dakota is a common fix).
The speedo will need to be replaced altogether as the common trannys (i.e., "T-56) have no provision for a cable drive. Certain Honda electronic speedometers will fit the stock cluster and work (again, Digital Dakota).

You will almost certainly need to upgrade the differential.
A T2 diff will work much better but kits are now available to install a Cobra diff.
This may not be strictly necessary but does provide a better range of gearing options because the standard 4.10 is way too short for the new engine.
You'll probably want to be in the 3.55 range to make first/second gear even marginally useful.

Mounting the engine/trans is the work of a morning (especially in the FC, which retains the stock subframe), it's everything else that takes the time.

Go to norotors for a v-8 swap dedicated forum.
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Old 05-12-13, 06:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wthdidusay82 View Post
Try the v8 section.

Rotary > Pistons
Sure they are... that must be why it takes $20,000 to get 400 RWHP and eight miles to the gallon instead of ~$9,000 and 30 MPG.

I'm sure the guys who bought the first generation AC roadster thought the same thing about Mr. Shelby.
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Old 05-12-13, 07:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
instead of ~$9,000 and 30 MPG.
You won't be getting 30mpg but 25 or so should be doable.
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Old 05-12-13, 02:09 PM   #10
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motor/trans - obviously a LSx swap, i got mine from a 02 camaro, trans was a T56 6speed
engine harness - oem camaro harness, you'll need to send it out to get modified, or you can buy a pre-modifed harness from Pez or Rywire
computer/ecu/pcm - oem camaro ecu, you'll need to send it out to get modified, or you can get EMS like AEM or something, you'd need to tune it afterwards
headers - i went with spoolin' performance longtubes
intake - i went with the samberg kit, so it includes an intake/radiator combo, but you can run 90* off the throttle body and another 90* down as a cold air intake
mount kit - i went with samberg complete mount kit with driveshaft, had to get it powdercoated since it comes raw metal, you could also go with hinson kit
drive shaft - drive shaft shop makes one, keep in mind M/T and A/T RX7's have different rear diff flanges, so you need to get the correct one
radiator - i went with samberg intake/radiator combo, you could go custom, mishimoto, hinson, etc.
keep the oil pressure and water temp sensor from the 13b, so you could buy an adapter from autometer and keep the factory gauges
shifter - get a steeda tri-ax if you're using a camaro t-56, puts the shifter as close as possible to oem shift boot location
battery relocation kit - you can do your own extension or buy a kit, relocate it to any rear cargo bin or trunk space
exhaust - y-pipe or x-pipe to a 3" or 3.5" muffler, this is where you and your muffler shop/fab guy can get creative
power steering - Pez has a power steering line for $100, use a f-body pump
air conditioning - Pez makes a A/C kit, forget how much it is, i do not intend on keeping A/C
traction control - racelogic makes a kit, from $1200-1800 depending on what options you want, or if you go with AEM infinity, it has traction control settings, make sure you keep your factory ABS speed sensors since it'll save you a couple hundred bucks
clutch + flywheel - since the motor is out of the car, here's your chance to replace the clutch + flywheel kit to something better
clutch slave cylinder - these are notorious for failing, replace it with a new OEM unit for peace of mind, and get a remote slave bleeder to save yourself headaches when it comes to bleeding the clutch, i bought it from speedway and it was a 48" line that i ran up into the engine bay and mounted it by the brake master cylinder
fuel pump - i used a walbro 255, some guys used 94+ supra TT pumps
fuel lines/regulator - i used a fuel filter/regulator combo from a 03 c5 vette base, it's clean, simple, prefixed pressure to 58psi, and all stock lines from the motor, you could go with aftermarket but you'll end up spending more
rear diff - the stock FD one will work, some guys have gotten by with it, some guys break it on the first launch, but most people i know upgrade to a turbo-II FC internals in a A/T rear diff housing for an affordable upgrade, you can go 8.8 or cobra, those are more expensive

depending on motor/mount kit/intake manifold/intake arm set up, you might need to notch the firewall lip for clearance, "massage" the transmission tunnel for header clearances, notch the hood, etc.
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Old 05-12-13, 11:57 PM   #11
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Stop by norotors buddy. You will find all the info you need. My build thread there will walk you through the process if you own an FC.

I swapped in an 04 GTO ls1(ls6 essentially) with a camaro t-56. Put in a cam, let it breathe and exhale better and had it retuned. I made 425whp and 417 rwtrq corrected. Swap cost around 8.5k but I made 7k off my rotary **** so it was almost a wash.

You won't regret it.
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Old 05-13-13, 05:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automationLED View Post
motor/trans - obviously a LSx swap, i got mine from a 02 camaro, trans was a T56 6speed
engine harness - oem camaro harness, you'll need to send it out to get modified, or you can buy a pre-modifed harness from Pez or Rywire
computer/ecu/pcm - oem camaro ecu, you'll need to send it out to get modified, or you can get EMS like AEM or something, you'd need to tune it afterwards
headers - i went with spoolin' performance longtubes
intake - i went with the samberg kit, so it includes an intake/radiator combo, but you can run 90* off the throttle body and another 90* down as a cold air intake
mount kit - i went with samberg complete mount kit with driveshaft, had to get it powdercoated since it comes raw metal, you could also go with hinson kit
drive shaft - drive shaft shop makes one, keep in mind M/T and A/T RX7's have different rear diff flanges, so you need to get the correct one
radiator - i went with samberg intake/radiator combo, you could go custom, mishimoto, hinson, etc.
keep the oil pressure and water temp sensor from the 13b, so you could buy an adapter from autometer and keep the factory gauges
shifter - get a steeda tri-ax if you're using a camaro t-56, puts the shifter as close as possible to oem shift boot location
battery relocation kit - you can do your own extension or buy a kit, relocate it to any rear cargo bin or trunk space
exhaust - y-pipe or x-pipe to a 3" or 3.5" muffler, this is where you and your muffler shop/fab guy can get creative
power steering - Pez has a power steering line for $100, use a f-body pump
air conditioning - Pez makes a A/C kit, forget how much it is, i do not intend on keeping A/C
traction control - racelogic makes a kit, from $1200-1800 depending on what options you want, or if you go with AEM infinity, it has traction control settings, make sure you keep your factory ABS speed sensors since it'll save you a couple hundred bucks
clutch + flywheel - since the motor is out of the car, here's your chance to replace the clutch + flywheel kit to something better
clutch slave cylinder - these are notorious for failing, replace it with a new OEM unit for peace of mind, and get a remote slave bleeder to save yourself headaches when it comes to bleeding the clutch, i bought it from speedway and it was a 48" line that i ran up into the engine bay and mounted it by the brake master cylinder
fuel pump - i used a walbro 255, some guys used 94+ supra TT pumps
fuel lines/regulator - i used a fuel filter/regulator combo from a 03 c5 vette base, it's clean, simple, prefixed pressure to 58psi, and all stock lines from the motor, you could go with aftermarket but you'll end up spending more
rear diff - the stock FD one will work, some guys have gotten by with it, some guys break it on the first launch, but most people i know upgrade to a turbo-II FC internals in a A/T rear diff housing for an affordable upgrade, you can go 8.8 or cobra, those are more expensive

depending on motor/mount kit/intake manifold/intake arm set up, you might need to notch the firewall lip for clearance, "massage" the transmission tunnel for header clearances, notch the hood, etc.
Kewl. What kind of rev limit can you use with a cammed/headered/tuned GTO engine? Like, 7,000? At least 6,500?
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Old 05-13-13, 12:22 PM   #13
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7,000 will start to push your reliability a bit (you'll need rod bolts minimum and regular oil analyis would be recommended). I set my rev limit at 6,850.

If you're running an FC, the Ronin kit is the only one that lets you run an exhaust below the trans mount while not losing ground clearance. Like others have said, if you do some looking at manufacturer's reviews on "norotors", I think you'll like what you find about Ronin and I'll put our kit up against anyone's.

If this is an FD, then our good friends over at Samberg Fabrication have the mount kit to beat. The guys here at Ronin decided the Samberg kit was so good that we've just become a dealer for them and will be offering the mounts powder coated rather than making our own.

FWIW if you're at all mechnically capable I'd always recommend doing the work yourself. You'll appreciate it more, learn a ton, and it sucks to be troubleshooting gremlins someone else was responsible for after the fact. If you must pay someone, either Greg Jones (aka Pez Performance), or Charlie Shatzen (Mazcare) are known for doing high quality swaps. Greg's in SC, Charlie in GA.
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Old 05-15-13, 12:42 PM   #14
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I think most of the information needed has been covered in this thread already. But to echo, look into Samberg for FD and Ronin for FC. They are the best in the business and actually support their customers as well.

Also, for cooling systems, Jags That Run has a good FC option, and Samberg has a slick FD setup.
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Old 05-15-13, 07:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clokker View Post
You won't be getting 30mpg but 25 or so should be doable.
No previous owner of my car got 30mpg and it puts down 430rwhp 440tq.
Another one with an LS2 gets 33.6mpg... it's not a fluke.. But YMMV.
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Old 05-16-13, 10:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomZoom View Post
No previous owner of my car got 30mpg and it puts down 430rwhp 440tq.
Another one with an LS2 gets 33.6mpg... it's not a fluke.. But YMMV.
I agree but you need a proper tune & gearing. I used to get over 30mpg with my z06.
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Old 05-16-13, 12:02 PM   #17
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if you plan to track your car, make sure you get some proper cooling.... my car tends to heat up quick after 3-4 fast paced laps in the high rpm band.

the stock bumper sucks for airflow......

why are you guys so worried about how high you can rev? the v8 motor has plenty of torque through the power band. its not like imports, you don't need to rev to7-8k everytime to make peak power.

when i track it, i usually just stay around 5-6k

oh btw... i hate my spec stage 3 clutch! i want a ls2/ls7 clutch combo =\ or the newer tremac t56 =[
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Old 05-16-13, 12:07 PM   #18
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Old 05-16-13, 10:03 PM   #19
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if you plan to track your car, make sure you get some proper cooling.... my car tends to heat up quick after 3-4 fast paced laps in the high rpm band.

the stock bumper sucks for airflow......

why are you guys so worried about how high you can rev? the v8 motor has plenty of torque through the power band. its not like imports, you don't need to rev to7-8k everytime to make peak power.

when i track it, i usually just stay around 5-6k

oh btw... i hate my spec stage 3 clutch! i want a ls2/ls7 clutch combo =\ or the newer tremac t56 =[

It just doesn't feel like a sports car if you don't rev it to at least to 7000. lol.

So LS2 > LS1, right? And how does the gearing with a GTO six speed and a stock automatic final gear feel compared to the stock gearing?
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Old 10-21-13, 12:31 AM   #20
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Sounds about right
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Old 10-22-13, 12:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automationLED View Post
motor/trans - obviously a LSx swap, i got mine from a 02 camaro, trans was a T56 6speed
engine harness - oem camaro harness, you'll need to send it out to get modified, or you can buy a pre-modifed harness from Pez or Rywire
computer/ecu/pcm - oem camaro ecu, you'll need to send it out to get modified, or you can get EMS like AEM or something, you'd need to tune it afterwards
headers - i went with spoolin' performance longtubes
intake - i went with the samberg kit, so it includes an intake/radiator combo, but you can run 90* off the throttle body and another 90* down as a cold air intake
mount kit - i went with samberg complete mount kit with driveshaft, had to get it powdercoated since it comes raw metal, you could also go with hinson kit
drive shaft - drive shaft shop makes one, keep in mind M/T and A/T RX7's have different rear diff flanges, so you need to get the correct one
radiator - i went with samberg intake/radiator combo, you could go custom, mishimoto, hinson, etc.
keep the oil pressure and water temp sensor from the 13b, so you could buy an adapter from autometer and keep the factory gauges
shifter - get a steeda tri-ax if you're using a camaro t-56, puts the shifter as close as possible to oem shift boot location
battery relocation kit - you can do your own extension or buy a kit, relocate it to any rear cargo bin or trunk space
exhaust - y-pipe or x-pipe to a 3" or 3.5" muffler, this is where you and your muffler shop/fab guy can get creative
power steering - Pez has a power steering line for $100, use a f-body pump
air conditioning - Pez makes a A/C kit, forget how much it is, i do not intend on keeping A/C
traction control - racelogic makes a kit, from $1200-1800 depending on what options you want, or if you go with AEM infinity, it has traction control settings, make sure you keep your factory ABS speed sensors since it'll save you a couple hundred bucks
clutch + flywheel - since the motor is out of the car, here's your chance to replace the clutch + flywheel kit to something better
clutch slave cylinder - these are notorious for failing, replace it with a new OEM unit for peace of mind, and get a remote slave bleeder to save yourself headaches when it comes to bleeding the clutch, i bought it from speedway and it was a 48" line that i ran up into the engine bay and mounted it by the brake master cylinder
fuel pump - i used a walbro 255, some guys used 94+ supra TT pumps
fuel lines/regulator - i used a fuel filter/regulator combo from a 03 c5 vette base, it's clean, simple, prefixed pressure to 58psi, and all stock lines from the motor, you could go with aftermarket but you'll end up spending more
rear diff - the stock FD one will work, some guys have gotten by with it, some guys break it on the first launch, but most people i know upgrade to a turbo-II FC internals in a A/T rear diff housing for an affordable upgrade, you can go 8.8 or cobra, those are more expensive

depending on motor/mount kit/intake manifold/intake arm set up, you might need to notch the firewall lip for clearance, "massage" the transmission tunnel for header clearances, notch the hood, etc.
Thannks for the breakdown...this is exactly what I needed for myself
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Old 10-23-13, 03:58 PM   #22
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It just doesn't feel like a sports car if you don't rev it to at least to 7000. lol.

So LS2 > LS1, right? And how does the gearing with a GTO six speed and a stock automatic final gear feel compared to the stock gearing?

you are correct, I LOVE the high Rev range of 90's Japanese sports car, the driving experience is non the other. The feeling of smooth shifting, smooth driving from a fairly stock Rx7 will disappear once you go V8.

however, the car still handles great, the torque from the V8 makes the RX7 really really RAW... imagine driving a dodge viper but without being tail happy.

AM i faster in the corner and track? YES, is the car more reliable for me to beat on? YES. however its definitely something you either love or hate, there is really no middle ground.

i'm running the older T56 not the newer magnum, so i cant speak from experience.

I daily mine, knowing parts are available everywhere, repair cost is cheap.

lot of people do shortcuts on the swap .. or slap on insane big cams making the car not very drive-able. you see those guys selling the project 2-3 weeks after its done.

in the end its all about balance.
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Old 10-23-13, 03:58 PM
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