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Old 11-17-05, 04:57 PM   #1
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ls7 rx7 anyone?

Is this swap possible? what about ls6 or ls2?
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Old 11-17-05, 05:00 PM   #2
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yes quiquite a few people have swapped in the LS series motors and some the LT, the LS7 would be a very nice option if you wanted to swap in the piston motor.

But dont those have a huge price tag ? something like $ 12 K .

well if you go to the swap section on the forum theres quite a few people that have doen this.
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Old 11-17-05, 06:45 PM   #3
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happens all the time. do a search
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Old 11-17-05, 08:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhalin
Is this swap possible? what about ls6 or ls2?
Has been done a number of times. All LS series motors share the same mounts. So any one will work. Even the iron block truck motors will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FC3S.USD
the LS7 would be a very nice option if you wanted to swap in the piston motor.

But dont those have a huge price tag ? something like $ 12 K .
Yeah, they are almost 13K out the crate; however, he said LS6 or LS2 which are both significantly cheaper than an LS7.
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Old 11-18-05, 06:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXMDR787BOY
Has been done a number of times. All LS series motors share the same mounts. So any one will work. Even the iron block truck motors will work.



Yeah, they are almost 13K out the crate; however, he said LS6 or LS2 which are both significantly cheaper than an LS7.
Well the title of the thread IS "LS7 RX7 anyone"


I think there are some intake fitment issues to be worked out. Check Jimlab's project thread in this section for some info on the LS7. If I remember correctly it's Jim's latest choice.

I've heard of one or two LS2 swaps, and probably about 50 LS1/LS6 swaps are either done or being worked on now.
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Old 11-18-05, 04:30 PM   #6
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hmm... compound super/turbocharged LS7..... 1200 whp?? hehehe
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Old 11-19-05, 12:03 PM   #7
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That would simply be a dyno queen for some guy with money to burn, that would be totally useless unless it had a solid axle and wheeliebars.. and tubbed out fenders. lol.

Now, a N/A LS7 would make it one hell of a track terror...
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Old 01-19-06, 10:28 PM   #8
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to swap a 20b into a 2nd gen it can cost as much as $37,000 (About $9,000 of that is labor cost and I've heard of a few lucky people getting cosmo clips for about $5000 so that'd only be about $14K). In order to swap in an LS7 motor you'd pay about $35,000-$40,000. In the end it's your choice....i'd personally go with the LS7, but if you care that it is rotary more than you care about horsepower go with the 20b.
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Old 01-20-06, 05:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12RotorMonster
to swap a 20b into a 2nd gen it can cost as much as $37,000 (About $9,000 of that is labor cost and I've heard of a few lucky people getting cosmo clips for about $5000 so that'd only be about $14K). In order to swap in an LS7 motor you'd pay about $35,000-$40,000. In the end it's your choice....i'd personally go with the LS7, but if you care that it is rotary more than you care about horsepower go with the 20b.
The only one spending that kind of money is jimlab. It wouldn't cost anywhere near that to use an LS7. Look at his thread for info on what he is doing in order to use an LS7 (in his current configuration anyway). I've got an LS1 installed and running in my FD, and I've only spent $25k including the car. You're not going to spend an additional $10-15k just changing to an LS7 - and if you have the car already, that's about half (or more) of the cost of the finished product.
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Old 01-20-06, 10:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash Test Joey
The only one spending that kind of money is jimlab.
I'll be coming close. Fortunately I'm not in Jimlab land just yet. He's probably got me by a cool $50-$75K

Quote:
It wouldn't cost anywhere near that to use an LS7. Look at his thread for info on what he is doing in order to use an LS7 (in his current configuration anyway). I've got an LS1 installed and running in my FD, and I've only spent $25k including the car. You're not going to spend an additional $10-15k just changing to an LS7 - and if you have the car already, that's about half (or more) of the cost of the finished product.
I bet you get closer than you think. The crate motor itself is $13K + shipping. Then you need a fuel computer to run it. BS3 is about $2.5K

Then you need a new TB setup. Figure $450-$500.

Then an oil reservoir, lines to the tank. Those will be custom since the LS7 stuff won't fit.

You'll need a new cradle to use the motor. The HSC won't fit. That's either custom, or through Jim. Jim's will be at least $1100.

You still need a tranny, bellhousing, etc.

It all adds up in a hurry.

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Old 01-20-06, 12:20 PM   #11
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If HP Tuners gets their 58 tooth reluctor conversion stuff working, an LS1/LS2 PCM could be used, along with that harness.

I'd expect within 6-8 months an LS7 swap could be reasonably accomplished for 20K if you have the car already, and can do your own fabrication. Likely it could be done for less if you shop smart.
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Old 01-20-06, 12:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalsolo
If HP Tuners gets their 58 tooth reluctor conversion stuff working, an LS1/LS2 PCM could be used, along with that harness.
And If your aunt had a ***** she'd be your uncle.

When/if HP Tuners provides that support there will be a lot of happpy people.

Still, there's the tiny matter of the $13K asking price on the crate motor to scare people away.

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I'd expect within 6-8 months an LS7 swap could be reasonably accomplished for 20K if you have the car already, and can do your own fabrication. Likely it could be done for less if you shop smart.
$20K is probably a reasonable guesstimate. Maybe a few K more.

The oiling system will end up being a major hassle. Custom tank/reservoir and lines are an absolute requirement. The stock reservoir is too tall, an dthe stock lines are too short.

I'm not sure how you can "shop smart" on something custom like that. You likely won't have many choices for suppliers.
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Old 01-20-06, 02:02 PM   #13
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Anyone have a guess as to how much a short block LS7 would cost? What would be the pros/cons of a LS7 shortblock vs. a stroked LS2 427?
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Old 01-20-06, 02:32 PM   #14
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Anyone have a guess as to how much a short block LS7 would cost? What would be the pros/cons of a LS7 shortblock vs. a stroked LS2 427?
They're vaporware at this point. The only way to get an LS7 is to buy a crate motor, or pull one out of an 06 Z06.

There's a rumor that the block will be released this spring, but so far it's just a rumor.

Pros for the LS7 would be the Titanium connecting rods, LS7 heads , Ti valves, dry sump oiling, factory 7000 rpm redline.

Cons are expense, the wait, availability, fabrication required for engine mounting, oiling, engine management, etc.

A Stroked LS2 is available right now. ETP sells heads that outflow the LS7 heads, and you can even run the LS7 manifold if you want. It'll work with the LS1/2 oil system. Cons are the expense and finding a reputable engine builder. Resleeving is like voodoo. You have to find someone good at it.
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Old 01-20-06, 02:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsfan
I bet you get closer than you think.
That's true. I was just pointing out that $35-40k to do the SWAP was just not true. Including the car? Sure, that would be close. Unless you're one of those people who actually pays for the mint condition $35k RX7 - in which case, you a)probably wouldn't take the engine out, or b)would have mint condition parts to sell, reducing your net expense by over $10k.
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Old 01-20-06, 06:17 PM   #16
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Well, having a custom tank fabricated is easy if ya know people. I have most of my overflow, oil storage, PCV and other things done by friends out of scrap metal and a few mail order from Summit bungs.
Sure no big deal if you can fabricate or know someone. Not everyone falls into that category.

The oil reservoir is more than just a cylinder too. It has a mesh in it to condense the oil out of the vapor and whatnot. Not complicated, but not an empty tube either. I doubt many people are going to be making them out of scrap they have lying around in the garage.

Quote:
Realistically, modifying the pan for AN fittings is a pretty simple operation too.
You're speaking from experience right? Having had the pan in front of you?

It doesn't look very weldable to me.

The oil ports are not a common AN size. They're 7/8", which would be AN-14, a size which isn't made. The openings are also recessed, and it's powdered aluminum, so determinging what alloy it's made from is anyone's guess. I wouldn't weld on it, and won't be on mine. I'm sure someone will try it, but I don't think it will be the walk in the park you described.

The better bet is to build an adapter piece (which is what we're doing), with the o-ringed press fit 7/8" tube on one side, and AN-12 fittings on the other. That way we won't warp the pan, don't have to worry about alloy compatibility, and it'll be reversible.

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I guess the difficulty/price of the swap depends on how much you can fabricate yourself, or have fabricated for you for free/cheap.
You think? You just described every hot rod project anyone has ever been attempted. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that even with your connections you won't be doing an LS7 swap. Of course, you'll have plenty of company considering the majority bitch about $4k motors being too expensive, I can't see everyone running out to drop the cash on an LS7.

Quote:
Even a reluctor wheel swap isn't a particularly big deal, once you get past the whole tearing into a 13K dollar brand new engine part.


There are some other subtle differences here and there that will need to be addressed (like where you're going to put the alternator, since you have to use a Y-body damper, etc.). The cam sensor on the front of the timing cover supposedly uses a different shape than the LS2 does too. Lots of changes that add up for Joe average swapper.

A reluctor swap is $100 at Wheel to Wheel to have a 24x reluctor put on it. I won't be tearing into a $13K crate motor though. I have other plans.

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And who the hell told you about my Aunt Roger?
Wild guess.
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Old 01-20-06, 06:32 PM   #17
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Talking LS7 Swap

Didn't someone on the forum buy a new 06 Z06 and then proceed to rip the motor out of it to do an LS7 swap?
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Old 01-20-06, 09:55 PM   #18
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Didn't someone on the forum buy a new 06 Z06 and then proceed to rip the motor out of it to do an LS7 swap?
I though that was a poor attempt to impress people with a non-existent swap.
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Old 01-20-06, 10:13 PM   #19
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...or to test how gullible the 20 yr olds were on this forum

answer: very
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Old 01-21-06, 12:33 PM   #20
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Wingsfan, I wanted a comparison of just the shortblocks, but you are right on the wait and at this point I already see what the cost are, i just wanted to know what would be the pros/cons as far as reliability, power etc minus cost. The reputable engine builder part has me worried a little.

Thank you for your input it is always appreciated, you are very knowledgeable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsfan
They're vaporware at this point. The only way to get an LS7 is to buy a crate motor, or pull one out of an 06 Z06.

There's a rumor that the block will be released this spring, but so far it's just a rumor.

Pros for the LS7 would be the Titanium connecting rods, LS7 heads , Ti valves, dry sump oiling, factory 7000 rpm redline.

Cons are expense, the wait, availability, fabrication required for engine mounting, oiling, engine management, etc.

A Stroked LS2 is available right now. ETP sells heads that outflow the LS7 heads, and you can even run the LS7 manifold if you want. It'll work with the LS1/2 oil system. Cons are the expense and finding a reputable engine builder. Resleeving is like voodoo. You have to find someone good at it.
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Old 01-21-06, 12:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wptrx7
Wingsfan, I wanted a comparison of just the shortblocks,
Well, you can't buy an LS7 shortblock yet, so that makes it easy. I haven't heard anything about plans to release it either. Evne the crate motors may be difficult to get your hands on, as they are all low volume builds, and most are spoken for by the Z06.
Quote:
but you are right on the wait and at this point I already see what the cost are, i just wanted to know what would be the pros/cons as far as reliability, power etc minus cost.
I don't see much difference between the two (other than the oiling). The LS2 stroker is basically the same as the LS7, minus the exotic con rods and heads, The power will be determined by the head and cam choice anyway, so you're not really limiting yourself there.

Quote:
The reputable engine builder part has me worried a little.
I'd go with either a Wheel to wheel motor http://www.w2wpowertrain.com or a rapid motorsports build http://www.rapidmotorsports.com/mode...=2&intYearId=3


Both are more expensive than other choices, but have excellent reputations.
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Old 01-23-06, 07:27 AM   #22
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From what I read up on, a lot of people also recommend MTI's Devil Ray 427. Any opinions on them?
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Old 01-23-06, 08:06 AM   #23
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From what I read up on, a lot of people also recommend MTI's Devil Ray 427. Any opinions on them?
I don't know anything about the specific package, though it looks to be a vette conversion rather than just an engine offering.

My impression of MTI is that they're expensive. I know that some people had some problems with dropping sleeves on some of their early setups.

Since the LS2 resleeving is a dry sleeve setup those problems should be fixed and it should be fine. Plenty of people seemed satisfied with their z07 offerings. I'd guess that they're on par with Rapid and W2W.

SDPC (http://www.sdpc2000.com )and Texas Speed (http://www.texas-speed.com ) seem to produce good motors too.
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Old 01-23-06, 01:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsfan
Sure no big deal if you can fabricate or know someone. Not everyone falls into that category.

The oil reservoir is more than just a cylinder too. It has a mesh in it to condense the oil out of the vapor and whatnot. Not complicated, but not an empty tube either. I doubt many people are going to be making them out of scrap they have lying around in the garage.
That doesn't change the fact that's it not hard or complicated to do though. You could pick up a used NASCAR sump tank and modify it pretty easily as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsfan

You're speaking from experience right? Having had the pan in front of you?

It doesn't look very weldable to me.

The oil ports are not a common AN size. They're 7/8", which would be AN-14, a size which isn't made. The openings are also recessed, and it's powdered aluminum, so determinging what alloy it's made from is anyone's guess. I wouldn't weld on it, and won't be on mine. I'm sure someone will try it, but I don't think it will be the walk in the park you described.

The better bet is to build an adapter piece (which is what we're doing), with the o-ringed press fit 7/8" tube on one side, and AN-12 fittings on the other. That way we won't warp the pan, don't have to worry about alloy compatibility, and it'll be reversible.
Welding to a cast pan isn't hard if you know how to do it, nor is welding that without warping it. Making the adapter plate is certainly a good solution, but I gotta say it's the more complicated way of doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsfan
You think? You just described every hot rod project anyone has ever been attempted. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that even with your connections you won't be doing an LS7 swap. Of course, you'll have plenty of company considering the majority bitch about $4k motors being too expensive, I can't see everyone running out to drop the cash on an LS7.
Depends, their would be a substantial investment, but I'm at 15K in the car in the past 8 months, another 15K in the next 8 isn't unreasonable. I still need to drive it with the nitrous working on my LS1 swap before I worry about that though. Not all of us 23 year olds are broke ya know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsfan
There are some other subtle differences here and there that will need to be addressed (like where you're going to put the alternator, since you have to use a Y-body damper, etc.). The cam sensor on the front of the timing cover supposedly uses a different shape than the LS2 does too. Lots of changes that add up for Joe average swapper.
The accessory spacing can be taken care of several ways, you could likely get off the shelf S&P bracketry for that, if not, machine work on F-Body accessory brackets wouldn't be particularly difficult.

I guess I just tend to look at this from the perspective of someone with the necessary resources to have fabrication accomplished for them at little/no cost on the components I can't do myself, and the 95% of it I can do. If someone wanted to put the time/effort into it, none of it is really THAT hard. It's just an engine.
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Old 01-23-06, 01:47 PM
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