Hitachi Bathurst sp twins 650ps
09-02-16, 08:38 AM
#52
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I made 470whp 400wtq at 18-19psi using my BNR stage 3's and that was with ignition breakup due to greedy plug gaping. Also this is on 93 octance pump gas using water injection, I also used stock rails, stock FPR, and modified stock secondary injectors.
The car now has a 4" exhaust and can run 20-21psi so if you beat my record and I have to get it redynoed and I'm sure I can make a higher number to defend my stupid title.
I don't care what kind of Ginsu Samurai unicorn turbine wheels you run, the problem is that the stock turbine housings can not flow enough to make the power. You'll run into the same problem that I did, you'll keep upping boost and the HP increases will drop off and TQ will increase. This is because your exhaust manifold pressure will start to go through the roof and cause EGT's to rise and you can potentially pop a engine. I completely believe that there is more room to go with getting power from the twins, but the next piece to this puzzle would be fitting larger turbine housings.
I don't mean to be so frank about this, and trust me I love what you're trying to do, it's nice to see people pushing limits on the RX7 twins like I did. For Christ sake I figured out how to put a damn external gate on the twins! but unless someone makes a larger turbine housing then pushing this record further is stupid.
The car now has a 4" exhaust and can run 20-21psi so if you beat my record and I have to get it redynoed and I'm sure I can make a higher number to defend my stupid title.
I don't care what kind of Ginsu Samurai unicorn turbine wheels you run, the problem is that the stock turbine housings can not flow enough to make the power. You'll run into the same problem that I did, you'll keep upping boost and the HP increases will drop off and TQ will increase. This is because your exhaust manifold pressure will start to go through the roof and cause EGT's to rise and you can potentially pop a engine. I completely believe that there is more room to go with getting power from the twins, but the next piece to this puzzle would be fitting larger turbine housings.
I don't mean to be so frank about this, and trust me I love what you're trying to do, it's nice to see people pushing limits on the RX7 twins like I did. For Christ sake I figured out how to put a damn external gate on the twins! but unless someone makes a larger turbine housing then pushing this record further is stupid.
09-02-16, 12:27 PM
#53
but unless someone makes a larger turbine housing then pushing this record further is stupid.
You don't necessarily have to make a bigger turbine housing to get more flow out of the turbine housings (if you think that is the choke point).
If you port the turbo scroll slot that introduces the exhaust to the exhaust wheel you will create a divergent A/R. You can also port the runners entry to the turbo exhaust housing since the casting is fairly thick.
With the aid of a flow bench, you should be able to realize a bit of flow increase.
It will make the exhaust housings less efficient and create worse boost response though.
You don't necessarily have to make a bigger turbine housing to get more flow out of the turbine housings (if you think that is the choke point).
If you port the turbo scroll slot that introduces the exhaust to the exhaust wheel you will create a divergent A/R. You can also port the runners entry to the turbo exhaust housing since the casting is fairly thick.
With the aid of a flow bench, you should be able to realize a bit of flow increase.
It will make the exhaust housings less efficient and create worse boost response though.
09-02-16, 12:57 PM
#54
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but unless someone makes a larger turbine housing then pushing this record further is stupid.
You don't necessarily have to make a bigger turbine housing to get more flow out of the turbine housings (if you think that is the choke point).
If you port the turbo scroll slot that introduces the exhaust to the exhaust wheel you will create a divergent A/R. You can also port the runners entry to the turbo exhaust housing since the casting is fairly thick.
With the aid of a flow bench, you should be able to realize a bit of flow increase.
It will make the exhaust housings less efficient and create worse boost response though.
You don't necessarily have to make a bigger turbine housing to get more flow out of the turbine housings (if you think that is the choke point).
If you port the turbo scroll slot that introduces the exhaust to the exhaust wheel you will create a divergent A/R. You can also port the runners entry to the turbo exhaust housing since the casting is fairly thick.
With the aid of a flow bench, you should be able to realize a bit of flow increase.
It will make the exhaust housings less efficient and create worse boost response though.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...-done-1000553/
09-02-16, 03:07 PM
#55
Full Member
Thread Starter
It's seems that uses guys haven't done any experiments
With measuring the back pressure on the twins .
Here are my findings from my tests
Using Ht12 std turbine wheel with exhaust housing extremely ported
Manifold pressure 20psi and the exhaust back pressure = 52psi
Using Ht12 std turbine with exhaust housing unported manifold pressure 20psi and the exhaust back pressure = 52psi
BNRs 3 with 20psi manifold pressure , exhaust housing ported to the extreme , exhaust back pressure = 54psi , because the garrett turbine wheel was too wide this had increased the back pressure higher than oem wheel .
Bathurst sp 650ps version , exhaust housing un ported , manifold pressure 22psi , the exhaust back pressure = 38 psi .
So these are the facts .
external waste gating is a waste of time .
The only gain u got from this was it allowed u to run more boost than std actuators . Cause u can change the spring pressure to suit .
A higher Spring pressures on internal waste gates was the solution .
With measuring the back pressure on the twins .
Here are my findings from my tests
Using Ht12 std turbine wheel with exhaust housing extremely ported
Manifold pressure 20psi and the exhaust back pressure = 52psi
Using Ht12 std turbine with exhaust housing unported manifold pressure 20psi and the exhaust back pressure = 52psi
BNRs 3 with 20psi manifold pressure , exhaust housing ported to the extreme , exhaust back pressure = 54psi , because the garrett turbine wheel was too wide this had increased the back pressure higher than oem wheel .
Bathurst sp 650ps version , exhaust housing un ported , manifold pressure 22psi , the exhaust back pressure = 38 psi .
So these are the facts .
external waste gating is a waste of time .
The only gain u got from this was it allowed u to run more boost than std actuators . Cause u can change the spring pressure to suit .
A higher Spring pressures on internal waste gates was the solution .
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 09-02-16 at 07:16 PM.
09-02-16, 09:17 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Hopefully soon . .
Here are a list of power figures of the twins available.
These power figures are from a mainline dyno only .
So other dynos can show different power figures .
Hitachi Std ht10 : max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98ron (usa93 mon)
258rwkw ( 345rwhp) 15psi 6900rpm
Compressor wheel 41.6mm x57mm die cast
Turbine wheel 45mm x 51mm turbine wheel width 19mm
Hitachi std ht12 : max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98 Ron (Usa 93mon)
248rwkw (330rwhp) 15psi 6900rpm
Compressor wheel 41.6mm x57mm die cast
Turbine wheel 45mm x 50mm turbine wheel width 20mm
New hitachi HT 12 3ka1: max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98 Ron (Usa 93mon)
268rwkw(360rwhp)17psi 7200rpm
Compressor wheel type1 (43.2mmx 62mm) billet type Comp wheel
Turbine wheel 45mm x 50mm turbine wheel width 20mm
BNRs 3 : max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98 Ron (Usa 93mon)
Compressor wheel 46.5mm x60mm die cast
Turbine wheel 47mmx 53.8mm turbine wheel width 24mm
276rwkw (370rwhp)18psi 7200rpm
Hitachi Bathurst sp ht12-650ps : max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98 Ron (Usa 93mon)
309rwkw (400rwhp) 18psi 8200rpm
Currently on e85 340rwkw( 455rwhp) 22psi 8200rpm
Compressor wheel 47mm x68mm billet wheel type
Turbine wheel 51mm x 56mm turbine turbine wheel width 20mm
These figures are from my personal long term tuning , not hearsay or magazines , or forums and all cars had very similar mods done .
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 09-03-16 at 04:27 AM.
09-03-16, 05:22 PM
#58
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Well good luck to you, I hope you smash my record and prove something new with the twins that I couldn't find when I beat the record.
A couple points, the external gate was not a bad idea at the time and I will concede that aftermarket internal actuators are MILES better then what was offered at the time when I decided to do that mod. But to say that my only advantage is different springs rates is stupid, you literally have the exact same advantage with the internal gate actuators you are running, you an swap all the spring you want with those.
One point that is still odd in all this, you might have more efficient turbine wheels according to your testing but I'm still getting better results then you on pump gas (with water injection) at much lower boost pressures. It seems to me like you're gloating about your results and haven't hit the wall yet on the power numbers like me and others have with the twins.
One last point, please stop calling your twins 650ps, that number implies about 640HP and unless you're running a single 75mm+ turbo you'll never see those numbers. I'm a firm believer that the twins can hit 500whp, but it won't be sustainable or reliable. Even the numbers I made I concede are not reliable, quit that bull ****.
Anyway, best of luck!
A couple points, the external gate was not a bad idea at the time and I will concede that aftermarket internal actuators are MILES better then what was offered at the time when I decided to do that mod. But to say that my only advantage is different springs rates is stupid, you literally have the exact same advantage with the internal gate actuators you are running, you an swap all the spring you want with those.
One point that is still odd in all this, you might have more efficient turbine wheels according to your testing but I'm still getting better results then you on pump gas (with water injection) at much lower boost pressures. It seems to me like you're gloating about your results and haven't hit the wall yet on the power numbers like me and others have with the twins.
One last point, please stop calling your twins 650ps, that number implies about 640HP and unless you're running a single 75mm+ turbo you'll never see those numbers. I'm a firm believer that the twins can hit 500whp, but it won't be sustainable or reliable. Even the numbers I made I concede are not reliable, quit that bull ****.
Anyway, best of luck!
09-03-16, 06:14 PM
#59
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Another point, the only reason I'm here is because some of your mates made some claims on Facebook about 500whp+ on twins and then I got involved.
Another point, how much are these turbos? Are they even available to the public? One of the reasons why BNR's became popular was because they were vastly cheaper then a single turbo setup and were easy to install, that's the whole point. If your turbos are attainable then I will concede you have something, but so far from what your mates on Facebook have been saying is that they cost as much or more then a single EFR setup.
Another point, how much are these turbos? Are they even available to the public? One of the reasons why BNR's became popular was because they were vastly cheaper then a single turbo setup and were easy to install, that's the whole point. If your turbos are attainable then I will concede you have something, but so far from what your mates on Facebook have been saying is that they cost as much or more then a single EFR setup.
09-03-16, 06:34 PM
#60
One last point, please stop calling your twins 650ps, that number implies about 640HP and unless you're running a single 75mm+ turbo you'll never see those numbers. I'm a firm believer that the twins can hit 500whp, but it won't be sustainable or reliable. Even the numbers I made I concede are not reliable, quit that bull ****.
Anyway, best of luck!
on another note, ball joint, did you hear about my twins? im gonna do a 7670 seq twins setup. one sxe, one efr, testing on the sxe now in a few weeks. i could have 800 fully turned up. but am shootin for 550.
i also though about using the stock exhuast housing and making some hybrids using two 6258 efr turbos like the bnrs do. food for thought.
09-03-16, 07:07 PM
#61
Full Member
Thread Starter
Firstly your 470rwhp figure u done on a mustang dyno in wrong ,that dyno is known to read 15 to 20 %more than a mainline dyno as stated on this thread,which works out to be 280rwkw on a manline dyno , so you don't hold no record .
The record is held firmly by the Bathurst sp 650ps hitachi twins , which were devolved by hitachi Japan engineers and funded by me on special request .
Bnrs upgrades as u said are a cheap fix and it's a fact they are unreliable as I've seem multiple issues with them , for god sake there garret Core made in China and can't handle the high temps
BNRs Upgrades uses std compressor covers , Std actuators , chine made Garrett cores , and the figure of 280rwkw that you really achieve is 100% correct .
And the only reason you got 280rwkw with pump is because you used water meth injection
And if u didn't use water meth injection you would of got less like 270rwkw like with get in Australia on those bnrs twins .
The facts why Bnrs upgrade can't achieve more than the Bathurst sp twins can .
bnr uses std actuators 0.45 bar Spring rating , Std compressor cover , and turbine wheel that is more restrictive than the oem turbine wheel .
So let's not debate about something that's clear and please don't come on to this thread with bullshit statements .
Get your car onto a manline dyno and u will wait up to reallitly .
And the real proof will be when we go do 1/4 mile, dyno figures are not clear cause of different dyno variations.
The record is held firmly by the Bathurst sp 650ps hitachi twins , which were devolved by hitachi Japan engineers and funded by me on special request .
Bnrs upgrades as u said are a cheap fix and it's a fact they are unreliable as I've seem multiple issues with them , for god sake there garret Core made in China and can't handle the high temps
BNRs Upgrades uses std compressor covers , Std actuators , chine made Garrett cores , and the figure of 280rwkw that you really achieve is 100% correct .
And the only reason you got 280rwkw with pump is because you used water meth injection
And if u didn't use water meth injection you would of got less like 270rwkw like with get in Australia on those bnrs twins .
The facts why Bnrs upgrade can't achieve more than the Bathurst sp twins can .
bnr uses std actuators 0.45 bar Spring rating , Std compressor cover , and turbine wheel that is more restrictive than the oem turbine wheel .
So let's not debate about something that's clear and please don't come on to this thread with bullshit statements .
Get your car onto a manline dyno and u will wait up to reallitly .
And the real proof will be when we go do 1/4 mile, dyno figures are not clear cause of different dyno variations.
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 09-03-16 at 07:22 PM.
09-03-16, 08:51 PM
#62
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Thread Starter
ah thank you! i was wanting someone too say that. i could wrap my head around where the 650ps turbos where at? are we to assume thats engine ps. even then 450 with 30 percent loss is only 585..
on another note, ball joint, did you hear about my twins? im gonna do a 7670 seq twins setup. one sxe, one efr, testing on the sxe now in a few weeks. i could have 800 fully turned up. but am shootin for 550.
i also though about using the stock exhuast housing and making some hybrids using two 6258 efr turbos like the bnrs do. food for thought.
on another note, ball joint, did you hear about my twins? im gonna do a 7670 seq twins setup. one sxe, one efr, testing on the sxe now in a few weeks. i could have 800 fully turned up. but am shootin for 550.
i also though about using the stock exhuast housing and making some hybrids using two 6258 efr turbos like the bnrs do. food for thought.
Anyway Ill clear it up just for u .
So we all know Japs talk ps which 0.98 x ps = Hp
650ps = 637hp and that engine power or flywheel power .
Now the losses from engine through gear box and diff is not 30% it's 20% so
0.8 x 637 = 509hp from rear wheels
Now to convert to kw 0.746 x 509rwhp = 380rwkw
Currently the Bathurst sp twins are flowing 340rwkw on e85 and with another 30-40rwkw to go .
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 09-04-16 at 02:39 AM.
09-04-16, 02:01 PM
#63
Hitachi Bathurst sp ht12-650ps : max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98 Ron (Usa 93mon)
309rwkw (400rwhp) 18psi 8200rpm
Currently on e85 340rwkw( 455rwhp) 22psi 8200rpm
Compressor wheel 47mm x68mm billet wheel type
Turbine wheel 51mm x 56mm turbine turbine wheel width 20mm
Those are some big turbos!
If they weren't stuck in stock turbo exhaust side they should be good for over 700rwhp.
That larger exhaust wheel are definitely helping the stock turbine housing flow more.
As you know, I think the fact that you are only making 456rwhp at 22psi on E85 is because of the terrible stock twins turbo exit/merge into the downpipe, but we will see as you turn up the boost.
I was looking at ex-indy car EFR 6758 (the compressor and exhaust wheel major diameters) turbos because they are ~$650 used and should do ~695rwhp as twins on a rotary.
As long as you don't stick them in the stock exhaust housings/downpipe merge...
309rwkw (400rwhp) 18psi 8200rpm
Currently on e85 340rwkw( 455rwhp) 22psi 8200rpm
Compressor wheel 47mm x68mm billet wheel type
Turbine wheel 51mm x 56mm turbine turbine wheel width 20mm
Those are some big turbos!
If they weren't stuck in stock turbo exhaust side they should be good for over 700rwhp.
That larger exhaust wheel are definitely helping the stock turbine housing flow more.
As you know, I think the fact that you are only making 456rwhp at 22psi on E85 is because of the terrible stock twins turbo exit/merge into the downpipe, but we will see as you turn up the boost.
I was looking at ex-indy car EFR 6758 (the compressor and exhaust wheel major diameters) turbos because they are ~$650 used and should do ~695rwhp as twins on a rotary.
As long as you don't stick them in the stock exhaust housings/downpipe merge...
09-04-16, 04:44 PM
#64
Rotary Freak
ARD, your measuring stick is wrong on "width", at least on the ht10s and BNRs, would have thought the 12s would be different on the compressor side too. I doubt very much the hypothesis that the chord is affecting back pressure, I'd suspect 9 v 10 blade wheel might be more likely.
09-04-16, 05:54 PM
#65
Full Member
Thread Starter
ARD, your measuring stick is wrong on "width", at least on the ht10s and BNRs, would have thought the 12s would be different on the compressor side too. I doubt very much the hypothesis that the chord is affecting back pressure, I'd suspect 9 v 10 blade wheel might be more likely.
Anyway Billy bob are u a single lover or a twins lover ?
Your full of theories but no facts .
Last edited by THE DOCTOR; 09-05-16 at 07:48 AM.
09-05-16, 07:20 AM
#67
Hitachi Bathurst sp ht12-650ps : max output from rear wheels with safe tune on pump 98 Ron (Usa 93mon)
309rwkw (400rwhp) 18psi 8200rpm
Currently on e85 340rwkw( 455rwhp) 22psi 8200rpm
Compressor wheel 47mm x68mm billet wheel type
Turbine wheel 51mm x 56mm turbine turbine wheel width 20mm
Those are some big turbos!
If they weren't stuck in stock turbo exhaust side they should be good for over 700rwhp.
That larger exhaust wheel are definitely helping the stock turbine housing flow more.
As you know, I think the fact that you are only making 456rwhp at 22psi on E85 is because of the terrible stock twins turbo exit/merge into the downpipe, but we will see as you turn up the boost.
I was looking at ex-indy car EFR 6758 (the compressor and exhaust wheel major diameters) turbos because they are ~$650 used and should do ~695rwhp as twins on a rotary.
As long as you don't stick them in the stock exhaust housings/downpipe merge...
309rwkw (400rwhp) 18psi 8200rpm
Currently on e85 340rwkw( 455rwhp) 22psi 8200rpm
Compressor wheel 47mm x68mm billet wheel type
Turbine wheel 51mm x 56mm turbine turbine wheel width 20mm
Those are some big turbos!
If they weren't stuck in stock turbo exhaust side they should be good for over 700rwhp.
That larger exhaust wheel are definitely helping the stock turbine housing flow more.
As you know, I think the fact that you are only making 456rwhp at 22psi on E85 is because of the terrible stock twins turbo exit/merge into the downpipe, but we will see as you turn up the boost.
I was looking at ex-indy car EFR 6758 (the compressor and exhaust wheel major diameters) turbos because they are ~$650 used and should do ~695rwhp as twins on a rotary.
As long as you don't stick them in the stock exhaust housings/downpipe merge...
09-05-16, 07:15 PM
#68
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My record speaks for itself, I have dyno charts that aren't upside down and logged in RPM instead of your goofy numbers that others didn't have a problem with when I posted them (unlike your weird torque numbers). Your results don't not do doubtfully make sense.
The record is held firmly by the Bathurst sp 650ps hitachi twins , which were devolved by hitachi Japan engineers and funded by me on special request .
Bnrs upgrades as u said are a cheap fix and it's a fact they are unreliable as I've seem multiple issues with them , for god sake there garret Core made in China and can't handle the high temps
Bnrs upgrades as u said are a cheap fix and it's a fact they are unreliable as I've seem multiple issues with them , for god sake there garret Core made in China and can't handle the high temps
You also haven't answered the question of how much these turbos cost? How did you even come across these turbos? Hitachi doesn't cater to the aftermarket just like Holset doesn't, why are you special? If you are gloating about stock frame turbos that cannot be bought then why are you gloating and **** talking BNR's at every chance? Are you trying to sell something or not?
BNRs Upgrades uses std compressor covers , Std actuators , chine made Garrett cores , and the figure of 280rwkw that you really achieve is 100% correct .
And the only reason you got 280rwkw with pump is because you used water meth injection
And if u didn't use water meth injection you would of got less like 270rwkw like with get in Australia on those bnrs twins .
And the only reason you got 280rwkw with pump is because you used water meth injection
And if u didn't use water meth injection you would of got less like 270rwkw like with get in Australia on those bnrs twins .
On another note, you're discrediting my numbers (by a hilarious 10KW (13HP)) because I use water injection... Are you actually serious? Bloke! You're RUNNING E85!!! Are you in all certainty comparing a E85 car to a water injected car!? Do you know anything about the tuning difference between the two and power output? It's harder to make numbers on a water injected car then a E85 car, I can't even dream about the amount of ignition timing you can run compared to me. Basic point is that I'm running water injection, which is more streetable and harder on ignition systems while you're running E85! You're a hypocrite.
Wait, do Bathurst twins have a bigger compressor side or turbine/exhaust side, you seem to be mixing them. Even if they have a bigger compressor side then you run into the same wall with the turbine AR.
So let's not debate about something that's clear and please don't come on to this thread with bullshit statements .
Get your car onto a manline dyno and u will wait up to reallitly .
And the real proof will be when we go do 1/4 mile, dyno figures are not clear cause of different dyno variations.
Get your car onto a manline dyno and u will wait up to reallitly .
And the real proof will be when we go do 1/4 mile, dyno figures are not clear cause of different dyno variations.
If you actually have something to add to making the stock frame turbos great then I'd love to hear it. But so far all I've seen is a guy who says he has a rare set of the Bathurst twins that he attached aftermarket wastegate actuators to and is now setting world records without setting any records.
09-05-16, 07:20 PM
#69
Full Member
The best way to prove power is on the track, I think we should put those numbers to test on a track and back it up with not just the ET but the miles per hour, that will dictate and prove the real power of these 650PS turbos. Not bashing, just my two cents.
09-05-16, 07:30 PM
#70
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Thread Starter
Why don't u keep your criticisms to yourself bud . Your a mech Eng
Why don't you post up some usefull info.
09-05-16, 07:54 PM
#71
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Rx7 Fd3s are my passion and I've spend a lot of time and money to bring something to the rx7 fd3s enthusiast , we don't need clowns like yourself posting up smart *** comments .
Why don't u keep your criticisms to yourself bud . Your a mech Eng
Why don't you post up some usefull info.
Why don't u keep your criticisms to yourself bud . Your a mech Eng
Why don't you post up some usefull info.
09-05-16, 09:37 PM
#73
Full Member
Thread Starter
So I don't hold no record? Didn't know you knew our quaint double negative speak, well just to say first and foremost, I ain't got no point in saying that your results are BS!
My record speaks for itself, I have dyno charts that aren't upside down and logged in RPM instead of your goofy numbers that others didn't have a problem with when I posted them (unlike your weird torque numbers). Your results don't not do doubtfully make sense.
Unreliable!? If anyone is to make a point about BNR reliability it's me and after pressuring them with stupid manifold pressures I have had no issues. I've also been a member of this forum for many years and have yet to hear of any kind of systemic failure rate of BNR's. Also, I don't care if the cores are made in China or Afghanistan, they have been proven to be reliable across multiple platforms and multiple architectures. I don't know where they're made and don't care, because they work and are reliable. Give me sources on BNR failures that don't coincide with Apex Seals being fed into them.
You also haven't answered the question of how much these turbos cost? How did you even come across these turbos? Hitachi doesn't cater to the aftermarket just like Holset doesn't, why are you special? If you are gloating about stock frame turbos that cannot be bought then why are you gloating and **** talking BNR's at every chance? Are you trying to sell something or not?
They do use standard housings, just because your housings are maybe bigger on the compressor side doesn't make yours some kind of unicorns. Also, you're saying 280KW's, you do know that 280KW's means 375HP right? Between this and your 650SP claim you seem to love pulling numbers out of nowhere.
On another note, you're discrediting my numbers (by a hilarious 10KW (13HP)) because I use water injection... Are you actually serious? Bloke! You're RUNNING E85!!! Are you in all certainty comparing a E85 car to a water injected car!? Do you know anything about the tuning difference between the two and power output? It's harder to make numbers on a water injected car then a E85 car, I can't even dream about the amount of ignition timing you can run compared to me. Basic point is that I'm running water injection, which is more streetable and harder on ignition systems while you're running E85! You're a hypocrite.
BNR's do use standard actuators (they do make them adjustable), compressor and turbine/exhaust housings; nothing new there. Once again, how much are your turbos?
Wait, do Bathurst twins have a bigger compressor side or turbine/exhaust side, you seem to be mixing them. Even if they have a bigger compressor side then you run into the same wall with the turbine AR.
So far you've been nothing but the king of BS, you talked about special made Hitachi wheels when Hitachi hasn't made a aftermarket turbo for the RX-7 since the Apexi kit that is now literally old enough to drive a car. You call 650PS (640HP) for your turbos (is this just dumb branding?) and BNR's making 280KW (375HP) with water injection (which only adds 10KW according to you) while you run E85. You post dyno graphs that don't chart RPM and others have torn them apart for being damn near impossible to happen.
If you actually have something to add to making the stock frame turbos great then I'd love to hear it. But so far all I've seen is a guy who says he has a rare set of the Bathurst twins that he attached aftermarket wastegate actuators to and is now setting world records without setting any records.
My record speaks for itself, I have dyno charts that aren't upside down and logged in RPM instead of your goofy numbers that others didn't have a problem with when I posted them (unlike your weird torque numbers). Your results don't not do doubtfully make sense.
Unreliable!? If anyone is to make a point about BNR reliability it's me and after pressuring them with stupid manifold pressures I have had no issues. I've also been a member of this forum for many years and have yet to hear of any kind of systemic failure rate of BNR's. Also, I don't care if the cores are made in China or Afghanistan, they have been proven to be reliable across multiple platforms and multiple architectures. I don't know where they're made and don't care, because they work and are reliable. Give me sources on BNR failures that don't coincide with Apex Seals being fed into them.
You also haven't answered the question of how much these turbos cost? How did you even come across these turbos? Hitachi doesn't cater to the aftermarket just like Holset doesn't, why are you special? If you are gloating about stock frame turbos that cannot be bought then why are you gloating and **** talking BNR's at every chance? Are you trying to sell something or not?
They do use standard housings, just because your housings are maybe bigger on the compressor side doesn't make yours some kind of unicorns. Also, you're saying 280KW's, you do know that 280KW's means 375HP right? Between this and your 650SP claim you seem to love pulling numbers out of nowhere.
On another note, you're discrediting my numbers (by a hilarious 10KW (13HP)) because I use water injection... Are you actually serious? Bloke! You're RUNNING E85!!! Are you in all certainty comparing a E85 car to a water injected car!? Do you know anything about the tuning difference between the two and power output? It's harder to make numbers on a water injected car then a E85 car, I can't even dream about the amount of ignition timing you can run compared to me. Basic point is that I'm running water injection, which is more streetable and harder on ignition systems while you're running E85! You're a hypocrite.
BNR's do use standard actuators (they do make them adjustable), compressor and turbine/exhaust housings; nothing new there. Once again, how much are your turbos?
Wait, do Bathurst twins have a bigger compressor side or turbine/exhaust side, you seem to be mixing them. Even if they have a bigger compressor side then you run into the same wall with the turbine AR.
So far you've been nothing but the king of BS, you talked about special made Hitachi wheels when Hitachi hasn't made a aftermarket turbo for the RX-7 since the Apexi kit that is now literally old enough to drive a car. You call 650PS (640HP) for your turbos (is this just dumb branding?) and BNR's making 280KW (375HP) with water injection (which only adds 10KW according to you) while you run E85. You post dyno graphs that don't chart RPM and others have torn them apart for being damn near impossible to happen.
If you actually have something to add to making the stock frame turbos great then I'd love to hear it. But so far all I've seen is a guy who says he has a rare set of the Bathurst twins that he attached aftermarket wastegate actuators to and is now setting world records without setting any records.
FDmotorsports.com.au
The site is incomplete but there is some info in the galley incon.
Now can u answer how can you make more boost than 15psi with bnrs twins upgrades when they use standard actuators ? 0.45bar Spring
And as for failure rate the bnrs China made garrett cores, it's a known fact in Australia , that everyone that has used bnrs they all complain that they leak a heap of oil through the compress covers . Which means the seals failing from rotary engine extreme temps .
Now with the exhaust housing ,hitachi engineers said that the turbine exhaust housings are still exceptable at these boost levels ,which I've concluded with my own back pressures testing, the exhaust manifold back pressure has decrease from 52psi to 38psi With the boost at 22 psi
Your bnrs will have 54 plus psi from turbo exhaust manifold .
The only thing that's keeping u from a blowing up your engine is water meth injection .
These are facts , and can u stop going around circles with the questions that I've explained on this thread already.
To finalise this as last stated by another member ,the proof will be in the 1/4 mile run.
09-06-16, 05:18 AM
#74
Full Member
I myself I'm very interested to see the end result of your turbos. Whenever you have the compressor and turbine maps please post them up. Same for the quarter mile results, please post them up when they become available. You have to understand pricing is a very important factor when comparing twins vs single turbo setups, it is only logical people want to know how expensive these will be and how readily available they will be.
I have been following your write up for a long time, but I think bashing BNR is not a good marketing tool as it makes you look not so professional, just show what your product can do and post all the facts and forget about the competition; I do not intend to disrespect you in anyway, but the BNR thing is not looking good in my honest opinion.
I have been following your write up for a long time, but I think bashing BNR is not a good marketing tool as it makes you look not so professional, just show what your product can do and post all the facts and forget about the competition; I do not intend to disrespect you in anyway, but the BNR thing is not looking good in my honest opinion.
09-06-16, 06:26 AM
#75
For one thing, talking down a well proven and testet product like the BNRs are only doing one thing: hurting your credibility.
This board is full of people who have run BNRs without issues, and with nice numbers, and when you come and say this is ****, people feel that you are just talking bullshit to make your kit look better. And then when you present some info about yours, why would we not think that is the same kind of bullshit to make your kit look good?
Talking down a well known product with a good reputation makes you look stupid. Because obviously, the BNRs are good turbos. A quick read on the forum tells anyone that there are few easier and cheaper ways to reach 350+ reliable horsepowers than BNRs. And if you cant understand that, then you cant know much about turbos, and that does not look good when you are trying to sell turbos.
But yours may be better. Who knows. The issue is that there is a difference between saying BNR is **** and yours are good, and BNRs are very good, but yours are even better.
And for me, a potential customer, i can find 100 dyno charts saying BNRs are good for 400rwhp. While there is only one (yours) saying the same about your setup. And even i, with my limited knowledge about how torque and effect works, can spot the issues with that dyno chart. Add the bashing of the proven BNRs, and the whole thing become suspicious.
This board is full of people who have run BNRs without issues, and with nice numbers, and when you come and say this is ****, people feel that you are just talking bullshit to make your kit look better. And then when you present some info about yours, why would we not think that is the same kind of bullshit to make your kit look good?
Talking down a well known product with a good reputation makes you look stupid. Because obviously, the BNRs are good turbos. A quick read on the forum tells anyone that there are few easier and cheaper ways to reach 350+ reliable horsepowers than BNRs. And if you cant understand that, then you cant know much about turbos, and that does not look good when you are trying to sell turbos.
But yours may be better. Who knows. The issue is that there is a difference between saying BNR is **** and yours are good, and BNRs are very good, but yours are even better.
And for me, a potential customer, i can find 100 dyno charts saying BNRs are good for 400rwhp. While there is only one (yours) saying the same about your setup. And even i, with my limited knowledge about how torque and effect works, can spot the issues with that dyno chart. Add the bashing of the proven BNRs, and the whole thing become suspicious.