FD Rx7 Big-Brake Technology
02-12-02, 06:27 PM
#27
Senior Member
The '99 brakes look good, however, I purchased and installed the Brembo brakes on the front. From what I have seen and heard, it looks like you will need to remove the back plate if you intend to run the CWC brake ducts. This would be an awesome solution. I would assume with large wheels and the big brake setup - removing the backing plate will allow more air flow around the disk. The backing plate has a little scoop to draw in air. This is non-functional with larger wheels.
By the way, the front brakes are awesome!!! After about 500 miles, I exercised the brakes from about 60 mph. The stop was very short!
What kind of setup would you guys suggest for the rear brakes using the same stock calipers?
regards
Rick
1993 RX-7
By the way, the front brakes are awesome!!! After about 500 miles, I exercised the brakes from about 60 mph. The stop was very short!
What kind of setup would you guys suggest for the rear brakes using the same stock calipers?
regards
Rick
1993 RX-7
02-12-02, 06:44 PM
#28
Full Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
>>We're doing the brake ducts as an Autosport Outfitters project, and >>may offer them to other Mazda FD owners, once we get the >>prototypes done on my car
I can't wait to see this.
I can't wait to see this.
02-14-02, 04:42 AM
#30
Lives on the Forum
Car Crazy
There doesn't seem to be much you can do with the stock US spec rear rotors and calipers, short of swapping pads to a higher torque compound.
Type 99 RS rear brakes include larger calipers and rotors. The rear rotor diameter for the '99 RS is also 314 mm, same as the fronts, except the thickness of the rear rotor is unchanged from the US spec rear rotors.
As Max said, the '99 rears would be a nice kit to balance out the Brembo, AP, M2, or whatever--big brake kit you have up front. The swept area for the '99 rears is also increased by a similar amount of square inches from the US spec versions.
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Type 99 RS rear brakes include larger calipers and rotors. The rear rotor diameter for the '99 RS is also 314 mm, same as the fronts, except the thickness of the rear rotor is unchanged from the US spec rear rotors.
As Max said, the '99 rears would be a nice kit to balance out the Brembo, AP, M2, or whatever--big brake kit you have up front. The swept area for the '99 rears is also increased by a similar amount of square inches from the US spec versions.
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Last edited by SleepR1; 02-14-02 at 04:51 AM.
02-14-02, 10:39 AM
#31
Senior Member
Re: Car Crazy
Originally posted by SleepR1
There doesn't seem to be much you can do with the stock US spec rear rotors and calipers, short of swapping pads to a higher torque compound.
Type 99 RS rear brakes include larger calipers and rotors. The rear rotor diameter for the '99 RS is also 314 mm, same as the fronts, except the thickness of the rear rotor is unchanged from the US spec rear rotors.
As Max said, the '99 rears would be a nice kit to balance out the Brembo, AP, M2, or whatever--big brake kit you have up front. The swept area for the '99 rears is also increased by a similar amount of square inches from the US spec versions.
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
There doesn't seem to be much you can do with the stock US spec rear rotors and calipers, short of swapping pads to a higher torque compound.
Type 99 RS rear brakes include larger calipers and rotors. The rear rotor diameter for the '99 RS is also 314 mm, same as the fronts, except the thickness of the rear rotor is unchanged from the US spec rear rotors.
As Max said, the '99 rears would be a nice kit to balance out the Brembo, AP, M2, or whatever--big brake kit you have up front. The swept area for the '99 rears is also increased by a similar amount of square inches from the US spec versions.
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
However, with most of your braking power on the fronts anyways, what advantage would upgrading the rears to the '99 spec really give you? Would the dollars and effort be worth the return? The brakes right now are damn awesome.
regards
Rick
1993 RX-7
02-14-02, 11:28 AM
#32
Lives on the Forum
That's true ONLY IF--you're braking in a STRAIGHT LINE.
If you brake LATE into a corner and use the Skip Barber brake-turn technique, you DO use the rear brakes. Brake-turning is similar to trail braking, but you have to be much smoother in blending off-of-the brakes-and-on-the-gas, coming out of a turn.
Having large rear brakes that are as fade-resistant as your large front brakes is a an advantage if you use "Skippy's" method of turning into a corner. Using the Skippy method with small rear brakes that fade more quickly than your fronts, won't allow you to turn-in as well through the duration of a lapping or enduro race. You'll start to develop too much front brake bias, as the rear brakes fade.
Of course if you don't track the car at all, then you really don't need the large front brakes either, since the stock US spec FD brakes work perfectly well on the public roads!
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutifitters.com/mdc/
If you brake LATE into a corner and use the Skip Barber brake-turn technique, you DO use the rear brakes. Brake-turning is similar to trail braking, but you have to be much smoother in blending off-of-the brakes-and-on-the-gas, coming out of a turn.
Having large rear brakes that are as fade-resistant as your large front brakes is a an advantage if you use "Skippy's" method of turning into a corner. Using the Skippy method with small rear brakes that fade more quickly than your fronts, won't allow you to turn-in as well through the duration of a lapping or enduro race. You'll start to develop too much front brake bias, as the rear brakes fade.
Of course if you don't track the car at all, then you really don't need the large front brakes either, since the stock US spec FD brakes work perfectly well on the public roads!
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutifitters.com/mdc/
Last edited by SleepR1; 02-14-02 at 11:35 AM.
02-15-02, 12:29 AM
#33
There has been a lot of talk lately about the brake bias of the FD being too forward. In my own experience, it does feel like the front grabs and the back is just along for the ride. Surely the front brakes do most of the work, but stopping distances can be reduced with proper bias, which means more rear brake bias on the FD. It should keep the car more settled under heavy braking, too, as long as you don't lock the rears up (which would indiccate too much rear bias). With the front brakes upgraded, it seems certain that some additional rear braking power is in order. The RS brakes seem like the best option to increase rear braking power without spending thousands on a Brembo or AP setup.
I always run street pads in the rear and swap track pads into the front when I go to track events. Perhaps I should start with some better rear pads (like Hawk HP+, Blacks, or something from EBC), but with bigger front brakes, the RS rear brakes are probably in order.
What pads do they use, Manny? And do you plan to use a different master cylinder? The 929 master cylinder is said to be a reasonable upgrade when you increase the piston sizes of the brakes.
-Max
I always run street pads in the rear and swap track pads into the front when I go to track events. Perhaps I should start with some better rear pads (like Hawk HP+, Blacks, or something from EBC), but with bigger front brakes, the RS rear brakes are probably in order.
What pads do they use, Manny? And do you plan to use a different master cylinder? The 929 master cylinder is said to be a reasonable upgrade when you increase the piston sizes of the brakes.
-Max
02-15-02, 04:32 AM
#35
Lives on the Forum
MaxCooper and artowar2
Max,
The '99 Type RS "stock" pads use a different pad compound than the US spec versions. They're apparently "better" than the US spec pads, but I won't find out until I use them on track. Although the pad sizes are the same for the '99 Type RS as on the US Spec FD brakes, the front caliper M-springs are larger (wider). The only way to get the '99 Type RS front caliper spring kit, is to order the '99 RS front pads, which INCLUDE the larger M-springs. The '99 RS rears use the same size V-springs and shims.
I plan to use the '99 Type RS stock pads first to test them, then switch to EBC "greens" all around, and then to EBC "reds" up front and "greens" in back... With the front brake cooling ducts and hoses, I may be ok with either the stock pads or the greens all around, as the EBC reds (or Hawk blue/black for that matter), need to get really hot for those pads to work well...
I don't have any plans to upgrade the master cylinder. As far as I can tell the '99 Type RS caliper piston sizes are the same as US spec version front calipers...the Mazda Comp people didn't mention anything anyway?
BTW, Doug Livingston (Autosport Outfitters) has pricing on the P-Zero Cs...I'll copy and paste a memo detailing the sizes and prices to you in a PM. Good luck with the OTC! Make us PROUD!
artowar2,
Full report once I get the brakes installed and tested at Putnam Park. I'm still waiting on the '99 Type RS front calipers. They're on emergency air-order from Japan.
FWIW, the rotors fr/rr and rr calipers arrived. The front rotors are quite massive for factory rotors. 1.25 inches thick and 12.4 inches in diameter, AS ADVERTISED. The rears are also 12.4 inches in diameter, but the same thickness as the US spec rotors.
For purely aesthetic reasons, I plan to have the '99 Type RS calipers, and rotor hats and vent fins powder coated "bright silver" to match the finish of my new 9 x 17, 45-mm offset SSR Integral A2s. The brakes gotta look good when I'm NOT on track (hee hee)
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
The '99 Type RS "stock" pads use a different pad compound than the US spec versions. They're apparently "better" than the US spec pads, but I won't find out until I use them on track. Although the pad sizes are the same for the '99 Type RS as on the US Spec FD brakes, the front caliper M-springs are larger (wider). The only way to get the '99 Type RS front caliper spring kit, is to order the '99 RS front pads, which INCLUDE the larger M-springs. The '99 RS rears use the same size V-springs and shims.
I plan to use the '99 Type RS stock pads first to test them, then switch to EBC "greens" all around, and then to EBC "reds" up front and "greens" in back... With the front brake cooling ducts and hoses, I may be ok with either the stock pads or the greens all around, as the EBC reds (or Hawk blue/black for that matter), need to get really hot for those pads to work well...
I don't have any plans to upgrade the master cylinder. As far as I can tell the '99 Type RS caliper piston sizes are the same as US spec version front calipers...the Mazda Comp people didn't mention anything anyway?
BTW, Doug Livingston (Autosport Outfitters) has pricing on the P-Zero Cs...I'll copy and paste a memo detailing the sizes and prices to you in a PM. Good luck with the OTC! Make us PROUD!
artowar2,
Full report once I get the brakes installed and tested at Putnam Park. I'm still waiting on the '99 Type RS front calipers. They're on emergency air-order from Japan.
FWIW, the rotors fr/rr and rr calipers arrived. The front rotors are quite massive for factory rotors. 1.25 inches thick and 12.4 inches in diameter, AS ADVERTISED. The rears are also 12.4 inches in diameter, but the same thickness as the US spec rotors.
For purely aesthetic reasons, I plan to have the '99 Type RS calipers, and rotor hats and vent fins powder coated "bright silver" to match the finish of my new 9 x 17, 45-mm offset SSR Integral A2s. The brakes gotta look good when I'm NOT on track (hee hee)
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Last edited by SleepR1; 02-15-02 at 04:42 AM.
02-18-02, 05:08 PM
#36
Full Member
Just as well since Mazda Comp has no part numbers for replacing the backing plates...either the US model car backing plates work with the J-spec '99 FD RS, or people are just removing the backing plates and installing the '99 RS brake calipers and rotors?
The '99 parts catalog does list new backing plates for the larger rotors.
Front L: F138-33-271A
Front R: F138-33-261A
Rear L&R: F124-26-261 (order 2)
I'll be waiting for your opinion on this upgrade to determine if I go with it or an aftermarket kit.
02-18-02, 08:04 PM
#37
Lives on the Forum
Lunar7,
Thanks for the part numbers! I'll see if I can order them through Mazda Comp!
Of course I'll give a full report once I have the brakes on for my March 23 track event.
Regards,
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Thanks for the part numbers! I'll see if I can order them through Mazda Comp!
Of course I'll give a full report once I have the brakes on for my March 23 track event.
Regards,
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
02-19-02, 04:36 AM
#39
Lives on the Forum
02-19-02, 10:59 AM
#40
Lives on the Forum
Lunar7,
I've set up the part numbers you gave me for the backing plates with Mazda Competition Parts.
I'll have pricing for them tomorrow.
It's a minimum of 2 months to get the backing plates from Japan, so if can't wait for them, you'll be able to order them, when you're ready!
Best regards,
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
I've set up the part numbers you gave me for the backing plates with Mazda Competition Parts.
I'll have pricing for them tomorrow.
It's a minimum of 2 months to get the backing plates from Japan, so if can't wait for them, you'll be able to order them, when you're ready!
Best regards,
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
02-22-02, 08:30 PM
#41
Lives on the Forum
Lunar 7,
The set of '99 Type RS FD brake backing plates are $129.20 for the set (fr/rr) from Mazda Competition Parts. I've placed the order today. I'm still waiting on the front calipers...won't be able to install until the backing plates arrive...
Thanks again for the part numbers for the backing plates! You've helped other FD owners considering the Type RS brakes upgrade!
Cheers,
Manny Lozano
The set of '99 Type RS FD brake backing plates are $129.20 for the set (fr/rr) from Mazda Competition Parts. I've placed the order today. I'm still waiting on the front calipers...won't be able to install until the backing plates arrive...
Thanks again for the part numbers for the backing plates! You've helped other FD owners considering the Type RS brakes upgrade!
Cheers,
Manny Lozano
Last edited by SleepR1; 02-22-02 at 08:32 PM.
02-23-02, 01:25 AM
#42
Full Member
Manny;
I'm real close to putting my order in as well.
I have been compiling a list of required parts.
There is another part that I just discovered.
The hard line that joins the flexible hose to the front caliper.
There are new part numbers listed for the RS.
Right: F124-43-710
Left: F124-43-720
I don''t know if you ordered these.
If not, you could probably bend the original hard lines to reach the RS calipers.
I'm real close to putting my order in as well.
I have been compiling a list of required parts.
There is another part that I just discovered.
The hard line that joins the flexible hose to the front caliper.
There are new part numbers listed for the RS.
Right: F124-43-710
Left: F124-43-720
I don''t know if you ordered these.
If not, you could probably bend the original hard lines to reach the RS calipers.
02-23-02, 06:14 AM
#43
Lives on the Forum
Lunar 7,
No, I wasn't aware of these parts. Mazda Competition hasn't mentioned anything about that (same with the backing plates!).
Are you sure we need these? With the larger, wider RS front calipers it seems the flexible hoses would be closer to the hard lines?
I'm not keen on bending hard lines to get them to to reach the front caliper flex hose lines!
If I DO need the new hard lines, I'll get the order numbers set up on Monday, as I'm sure Mazda Comp doesn't have these part numbers set up in their computer system!
Thanks!
Regards,
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
No, I wasn't aware of these parts. Mazda Competition hasn't mentioned anything about that (same with the backing plates!).
Are you sure we need these? With the larger, wider RS front calipers it seems the flexible hoses would be closer to the hard lines?
I'm not keen on bending hard lines to get them to to reach the front caliper flex hose lines!
If I DO need the new hard lines, I'll get the order numbers set up on Monday, as I'm sure Mazda Comp doesn't have these part numbers set up in their computer system!
Thanks!
Regards,
Manny Lozano
Motorsports Driving Club
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
02-23-02, 11:28 PM
#44
Full Member
Manny;
If you could get those lines set up it would be very cool.
Since the junction between the flex line and the hard line is fixed by a bracket on the knuckle, the original hard line will need to be bent so that the other end of it will mate with the RS caliper.
The bending may be very slight but I'm not sure, since I have not done this mod yet. I guess Mazda comp does not have it listed since most race teams can build or bend their own lines.
If you could get those lines set up it would be very cool.
Since the junction between the flex line and the hard line is fixed by a bracket on the knuckle, the original hard line will need to be bent so that the other end of it will mate with the RS caliper.
The bending may be very slight but I'm not sure, since I have not done this mod yet. I guess Mazda comp does not have it listed since most race teams can build or bend their own lines.
02-25-02, 02:01 PM
#45
Lives on the Forum
All you wanted to know about brakes
GRM wrote this must read article; found it online here: Brake Primer
02-25-02, 02:05 PM
#46
Lives on the Forum
Lunar 7,
Got those hard line part numbers set up with Mazda Comp today. They're cheap at $8 each.
My front calipers shipped from Japan last Friday, so this week, I should have them (yay!).
Now waiting for backing plates and hard lines, and we'll be all set for the install!
Thanks for the part numbers!
Regards,
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Got those hard line part numbers set up with Mazda Comp today. They're cheap at $8 each.
My front calipers shipped from Japan last Friday, so this week, I should have them (yay!).
Now waiting for backing plates and hard lines, and we'll be all set for the install!
Thanks for the part numbers!
Regards,
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
02-28-02, 08:40 PM
#47
Lives on the Forum
Type '99 RS Front calipers arrived today. They look identical to the US spec FD calipers, only the Type RS calipers are BIGGER to clear the larger Type RS front rotors!
The Tyep RS caliper pistons are also asymetric in size--the lower piston is much larger than the upper piston--perhaps the US spec pistons are the same way, but I never paid attention to the size difference?
I'm having the calipers and rotor hats (and vents) painted bright silver to match the SSR Integral A2's bright silver finish
Still waiting for the backing plates and "hard" lines from Mazda Japan.
Can't wait to slap everything on and do some track testing at my Putnam Park event March 23! I plan to have EBC reds up front and greens in back. I'll have brand new DOT approved stainless lines, and Motul 600 F.
One note about the '99 Type RS M-spring kit for the front calipers. You must order a set of Type RS front pads, to get the larger "M" springs. The "M" springs are NOT available separately. The Type RS pad dimensions are identical to the US spec FD pads, but the Type RS pad material is apparently a "better" perfoming material.
The Type RS rear caliper "V" springs are identical to the US spec FD rear calipers, but the V-springs are only available if you buy a rear pad set--I like to run two "V" springs--I'm **** that way
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
The Tyep RS caliper pistons are also asymetric in size--the lower piston is much larger than the upper piston--perhaps the US spec pistons are the same way, but I never paid attention to the size difference?
I'm having the calipers and rotor hats (and vents) painted bright silver to match the SSR Integral A2's bright silver finish
Still waiting for the backing plates and "hard" lines from Mazda Japan.
Can't wait to slap everything on and do some track testing at my Putnam Park event March 23! I plan to have EBC reds up front and greens in back. I'll have brand new DOT approved stainless lines, and Motul 600 F.
One note about the '99 Type RS M-spring kit for the front calipers. You must order a set of Type RS front pads, to get the larger "M" springs. The "M" springs are NOT available separately. The Type RS pad dimensions are identical to the US spec FD pads, but the Type RS pad material is apparently a "better" perfoming material.
The Type RS rear caliper "V" springs are identical to the US spec FD rear calipers, but the V-springs are only available if you buy a rear pad set--I like to run two "V" springs--I'm **** that way
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
02-28-02, 11:58 PM
#48
SleepR1,
The rear V springs are available individually. I also got a set of front (U.S. spec, not RS) shims and springs as a set, without the pads. I got them from MazdaComp (now Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development according to the package I got today!).
The RS brakes sound great. I can't wait to hear how they perform.
-Max
The rear V springs are available individually. I also got a set of front (U.S. spec, not RS) shims and springs as a set, without the pads. I got them from MazdaComp (now Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development according to the package I got today!).
The RS brakes sound great. I can't wait to hear how they perform.
-Max
03-01-02, 04:53 AM
#49
Lives on the Forum
Max,
Yeah there is a hardware kit available, but the front caliper "M" springs aren't available with that kit.
Yes, the rear "V" springs are available separately (that's how I bought the extras)
I'll let you know, once PaulyDee mounts everything up!
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
Yeah there is a hardware kit available, but the front caliper "M" springs aren't available with that kit.
Yes, the rear "V" springs are available separately (that's how I bought the extras
)I'll let you know, once PaulyDee mounts everything up!
ML
MDC
www.autosportoutfitters.com/mdc/
03-02-02, 05:45 AM
#50
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: The Ultimate Garage
Originally posted by HedgeHog
Ultimate Garage = Mov'It = modified Porsche brakes. Very nice but higher unsprung weight than the others. Pricing is similar.
UNLESS.....they release a version of the new 996 Turbo ceramic matrix rotors.
Ultimate Garage = Mov'It = modified Porsche brakes. Very nice but higher unsprung weight than the others. Pricing is similar.
UNLESS.....they release a version of the new 996 Turbo ceramic matrix rotors.
There are carbon composite rotors available for Porsche brake systems, but they too are $$$! Carbon fibre setups go for around $9000, all hw included... or so I have seen on the web.
- BSM ->
2000 Audi S4//GIAC Stage 1
1994 RX7 (on it's way, to replace S4 - hopefully)