howard coleman's FD Chassis/Setup
02-08-08, 01:00 AM
#77
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Ive been looking at Buddy club N+spec,has anybody had any experience with these...Howard??
All the specs on are here
http://www.buddyclub.com.au/
All the specs on are here
http://www.buddyclub.com.au/
02-08-08, 05:33 AM
#78
Rotary Enthusiast
Easier to explain with good diagrams, so I will post a few from a great basics book: Speed Secrets
http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Secrets-...2342622&sr=8-1
(See attachments)
If you have more questions on trail braking, lets take it to a different thread so we do not hijack Howard's thread with to much of this.
http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Secrets-...2342622&sr=8-1
(See attachments)
If you have more questions on trail braking, lets take it to a different thread so we do not hijack Howard's thread with to much of this.
Howard so on my coilovers u would recomend me to go down to 10/8 springs to make the car more easier to drive? And do u know if Tein uses the same spring specs in hight and diameter on all there coilovers?
JT
02-08-08, 07:16 AM
#79
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
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JT
assuming that your toe is set correctly, i think your understeering situation is either a camber issue as Peter posits in post 70 or, as i suspect,your rear wing setting.
as Damian correctly posts trailbraking can help but only until you get on the gas. trailbraking eases longitudinal transition by adding rear weight and helping the overburdened front. once you get on the gas weight shifts rearward and the last thing you want is to be on the brakes as it will impede your acceleration.
but you said that push is a problem thru most of the turn. i think, if your camber is correct, your wing is loading the rear and throwing off the balance so your front pushes. either add more downforce in front to balance or take wing out in the rear.
as i have stated aerodynamics is always an underestimated force. even in the slower corners your wing could easily generate enough downforce to destroy your balance.
it doesn't take much.
think of your car as a balanced teeter totter. if the fulcrum is in the exact middle how much weight does it take to make one end of the TT eventually touch the ground?
if the longitudinal balance is off just a touch it creates a positively re-enforcing negative situation. that's because one end of the car's tires will degrade. which leads to more degradation on each lap. which lead to more....
it is really all about balance. the most important instrument to gain control is the pyrometer.
FDrotor
it is always neat to converse w enthusiasts from other countries... like Austalia and Texas. anyway... i haven't dynoed the Buddy club N+ but i did check out the link. they look nice. i note they offer an optional "urethane isolated upper mount."
my single concern is the stated spring rate which is 10/10. the FD should have approx 42-44% of the total spring rate in the rear. these at 50% would oversteer lots. fine for drifting. NOT fine for anything else. so if you buy them, stipulate you either want 8 in the rear (making them 10/8) of 8/6. BTW, i love the SuperCars... that is great road racing.
carrying the coil over discussion a bit further... on a value basis.
the Buddy N+ appear to be priced at $2000 Aus which is $1800 U S.
they are independently height adj which the Tein SS isn't. since the Tein has no bottoming out problems at 25 inch ride height there is no advantage to having the height adj feature. BuddyN+ offers an optional Urethane upper mount which is a plus but probably an additional charge. both shocks have numerous adjustments which effect bump and rebound together. draw. both packages require some spring changes to get to either 10/8 or 8/6. while i have not dynoed the Buddies i have dynoed the Teins and their valving is excellent. overall build quality is excellent.
93silverbullet just bought a set of Tein SS for $839 shipped and will need to buy either 2 or 4 springs at $65 per.
i have zero affiliation w Tein, having paid $1339 for mine in 2000.
hc
assuming that your toe is set correctly, i think your understeering situation is either a camber issue as Peter posits in post 70 or, as i suspect,your rear wing setting.
as Damian correctly posts trailbraking can help but only until you get on the gas. trailbraking eases longitudinal transition by adding rear weight and helping the overburdened front. once you get on the gas weight shifts rearward and the last thing you want is to be on the brakes as it will impede your acceleration.
but you said that push is a problem thru most of the turn. i think, if your camber is correct, your wing is loading the rear and throwing off the balance so your front pushes. either add more downforce in front to balance or take wing out in the rear.
as i have stated aerodynamics is always an underestimated force. even in the slower corners your wing could easily generate enough downforce to destroy your balance.
it doesn't take much.
think of your car as a balanced teeter totter. if the fulcrum is in the exact middle how much weight does it take to make one end of the TT eventually touch the ground?
if the longitudinal balance is off just a touch it creates a positively re-enforcing negative situation. that's because one end of the car's tires will degrade. which leads to more degradation on each lap. which lead to more....
it is really all about balance. the most important instrument to gain control is the pyrometer.
FDrotor
it is always neat to converse w enthusiasts from other countries... like Austalia and Texas. anyway... i haven't dynoed the Buddy club N+ but i did check out the link. they look nice. i note they offer an optional "urethane isolated upper mount."
my single concern is the stated spring rate which is 10/10. the FD should have approx 42-44% of the total spring rate in the rear. these at 50% would oversteer lots. fine for drifting. NOT fine for anything else. so if you buy them, stipulate you either want 8 in the rear (making them 10/8) of 8/6. BTW, i love the SuperCars... that is great road racing.carrying the coil over discussion a bit further... on a value basis.
the Buddy N+ appear to be priced at $2000 Aus which is $1800 U S.
they are independently height adj which the Tein SS isn't. since the Tein has no bottoming out problems at 25 inch ride height there is no advantage to having the height adj feature. BuddyN+ offers an optional Urethane upper mount which is a plus but probably an additional charge. both shocks have numerous adjustments which effect bump and rebound together. draw. both packages require some spring changes to get to either 10/8 or 8/6. while i have not dynoed the Buddies i have dynoed the Teins and their valving is excellent. overall build quality is excellent.
93silverbullet just bought a set of Tein SS for $839 shipped and will need to buy either 2 or 4 springs at $65 per.
i have zero affiliation w Tein, having paid $1339 for mine in 2000.
hc
02-08-08, 10:22 AM
#81
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You can get the FLEX system form TEIN that already comes with:
Front Springs :10kg/559lb
Part # SQ100-01175
Rear Springs: 8kg/448lb
Part # SQ080-01175
DSM32-6USS1: TEIN Type Flex Coilovers
$1225.00
http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/dsm32-6uss1.asp
Front Springs :10kg/559lb
Part # SQ100-01175
Rear Springs: 8kg/448lb
Part # SQ080-01175
DSM32-6USS1: TEIN Type Flex Coilovers
$1225.00
http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/dsm32-6uss1.asp
02-08-08, 01:58 PM
#82
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
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Chassis/road racing
track prep --- it really never ends.
now that we have a pretty good base as far as suspension let's focus on a few other areas.
the stock FD engine makes 217 foot pounds of torque at 5000. that's 184 foot pounds at the rear wheels.
184 ft pounds.
that explains why there is NO ENGINE TORQUE ARM (ETA) and also why there are torn motor mounts. (how about larger stickier tires..)
my engine makes 364 foot pounds at 15.8 psi boost.
184-----364 hmmmm. time for some driveline help.
and no, removing the stock motor mounts and replacing them with plastic or steel is not the deal. the motor mounts single job SHOULD be to support the weight of the engine and transmission NOT to resist torque. rubber is good... it absorbs vibration.
however we have this pesky problem of 300 and something foot pounds of torque yanking on the poor old rubber mounts.
the answer is an engine torque arm. think of the engine as a triangle. the bottom face of the triangle is fixed by the motor mounts. what we need to do to resist the torque is fix the top triangle point to the inner fender well.
win win. we get to keep our nice rubber mounts and we totally remove torque from them and transfer it to the chassis.
this also greatly helps the PPF (Power Plant Frame). the PPF does 2 things. it holds the nose of the differential and it resists the torque twist from the motor. the ETA absorbs ALL the torque and makes the PPF's job much easier.
speaking of the PPF, again keep in mind we double the rear wheel torque on our FDs when we mod them. when you apply power the pinion gear tries to ride up the ring gear. (it is only the resistance to this upward force that moves the car forward.) while road racing is infinitely easier on the drive train than drag racing the faster you go ontrack the more force tests the PPF which is the sole resistor to this force.
there is an easy and relatively inexpensive fix. Banzai sells a bolt in PPF support that will greatly buttress the PPF. if you are fixing to drag race alot and plan on running in the 10s you might consider a more elaborate version that PFS Supercars (Ray Wilson) offers. Ernie T know all about the piece. if you don't drag race i recommend the Banzai piece.
Bushings
bushing companies like to sell..... bushings. LOTS of bushings. bushings are important the FD, having a real racecar suspension uses both spherical and rubber. since the steering in the front, by virtue of the rod ends, is rubber free i recommend you do nothing in the front re bushings.
the rear does require some help. replace the big rubber bushing in the front of the lower longitudinal link w either some sort of nylon, or the stiffer (higher durometer) rubber bushing that Mazdaspeed sells or switch to an aftermarket link w a rod end. the removal of the stock rubber bushing is a must as it effects toe on acceleration and braking. since it doesn't carry any weight it won't change your around town experience.
there are differing opinions on whether the toe links should be swapped for aftermarket. apparently there is some rubber in the link. the amount is open for discussion. i have run stock toe links. my wife has aftermarket. i may make the switch.
the other bushing area that should be changed is the large rubber bushings on top of the differential. if you jack up an FD under the diff you will note that diff rises almost an inch before the chassis moves. that's a no no. replace w nylon.
Fuel slosh
this thread is about dual purposing your FD. there is a problem w the chamber built in to the gas tank. simply put it needs a roof over the walls of the chamber. Hyperion has a group buy going (which i am in on) for such a fix. you really don't want to get into a fuel starvation problem in a corner. it is an easy install, inexpensive and appears well designed.
here's a few pics of the aforementioned items on my car.
Garfinkle's Engine Torque Arm
Boardmember David Garfinkle designed it right. notice the torque arm is in the same latitudinal plane as the motor mounts. that's the way it needs to be. just the right amount of rubber. David's ETA should be on every modded FD.
here's a pic of the Banzai Racing PPF brace. braking a diff is expensive. easy to install. Banzai's default color is screaming red. i had it specially painted in Coleman International Racing Black. i really didn't want the competiton to know what i was running.
4 tie wraps and you save $1000. instead of buying that full suspension instrumentation package buy.... 4 tie wraps. slap them on your shock rods, push them down before you go on track. measure how much they were pushed up after 3-4 laps. 1 inch of wheel travel in front is .6 on the shock rod. it is .68 in the rear. do the math. you want no more than 2 inches of travel.
that's all for now.
hc
track prep --- it really never ends.
now that we have a pretty good base as far as suspension let's focus on a few other areas.
the stock FD engine makes 217 foot pounds of torque at 5000. that's 184 foot pounds at the rear wheels.
184 ft pounds.
that explains why there is NO ENGINE TORQUE ARM (ETA) and also why there are torn motor mounts. (how about larger stickier tires..)
my engine makes 364 foot pounds at 15.8 psi boost.
184-----364 hmmmm. time for some driveline help.
and no, removing the stock motor mounts and replacing them with plastic or steel is not the deal. the motor mounts single job SHOULD be to support the weight of the engine and transmission NOT to resist torque. rubber is good... it absorbs vibration.
however we have this pesky problem of 300 and something foot pounds of torque yanking on the poor old rubber mounts.
the answer is an engine torque arm. think of the engine as a triangle. the bottom face of the triangle is fixed by the motor mounts. what we need to do to resist the torque is fix the top triangle point to the inner fender well.
win win. we get to keep our nice rubber mounts and we totally remove torque from them and transfer it to the chassis.
this also greatly helps the PPF (Power Plant Frame). the PPF does 2 things. it holds the nose of the differential and it resists the torque twist from the motor. the ETA absorbs ALL the torque and makes the PPF's job much easier.
speaking of the PPF, again keep in mind we double the rear wheel torque on our FDs when we mod them. when you apply power the pinion gear tries to ride up the ring gear. (it is only the resistance to this upward force that moves the car forward.) while road racing is infinitely easier on the drive train than drag racing the faster you go ontrack the more force tests the PPF which is the sole resistor to this force.
there is an easy and relatively inexpensive fix. Banzai sells a bolt in PPF support that will greatly buttress the PPF. if you are fixing to drag race alot and plan on running in the 10s you might consider a more elaborate version that PFS Supercars (Ray Wilson) offers. Ernie T know all about the piece. if you don't drag race i recommend the Banzai piece.
Bushings
bushing companies like to sell..... bushings. LOTS of bushings. bushings are important the FD, having a real racecar suspension uses both spherical and rubber. since the steering in the front, by virtue of the rod ends, is rubber free i recommend you do nothing in the front re bushings.
the rear does require some help. replace the big rubber bushing in the front of the lower longitudinal link w either some sort of nylon, or the stiffer (higher durometer) rubber bushing that Mazdaspeed sells or switch to an aftermarket link w a rod end. the removal of the stock rubber bushing is a must as it effects toe on acceleration and braking. since it doesn't carry any weight it won't change your around town experience.
there are differing opinions on whether the toe links should be swapped for aftermarket. apparently there is some rubber in the link. the amount is open for discussion. i have run stock toe links. my wife has aftermarket. i may make the switch.
the other bushing area that should be changed is the large rubber bushings on top of the differential. if you jack up an FD under the diff you will note that diff rises almost an inch before the chassis moves. that's a no no. replace w nylon.
Fuel slosh
this thread is about dual purposing your FD. there is a problem w the chamber built in to the gas tank. simply put it needs a roof over the walls of the chamber. Hyperion has a group buy going (which i am in on) for such a fix. you really don't want to get into a fuel starvation problem in a corner. it is an easy install, inexpensive and appears well designed.
here's a few pics of the aforementioned items on my car.
Garfinkle's Engine Torque Arm
Boardmember David Garfinkle designed it right. notice the torque arm is in the same latitudinal plane as the motor mounts. that's the way it needs to be. just the right amount of rubber. David's ETA should be on every modded FD.
here's a pic of the Banzai Racing PPF brace. braking a diff is expensive. easy to install. Banzai's default color is screaming red. i had it specially painted in Coleman International Racing Black. i really didn't want the competiton to know what i was running.
4 tie wraps and you save $1000. instead of buying that full suspension instrumentation package buy.... 4 tie wraps. slap them on your shock rods, push them down before you go on track. measure how much they were pushed up after 3-4 laps. 1 inch of wheel travel in front is .6 on the shock rod. it is .68 in the rear. do the math. you want no more than 2 inches of travel.
that's all for now.
hc
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 04-16-08 at 01:22 PM.
02-08-08, 05:05 PM
#83
there is an easy and relatively inexpensive fix. Banzai sell a bolt in PPF support that will greatly buttress the PPF. if you are fixing to drag race alot and plan on running in the 10s you might consider a more elaborate version that PFS Supercars (Ray Wilson) offers. Ernie T know all about the piece. if you don't drag race i recommend the Banzai piece.
Ideally both of these devices should be integrated into one unit, but we are not there yet.
Excellent thread BTW.
Rob Labardee
02-08-08, 05:26 PM
#84
Rotary Enthusiast
JT
assuming that your toe is set correctly, i think your understeering situation is either a camber issue as Peter posits in post 70 or, as i suspect,your rear wing setting.
as Damian correctly posts trailbraking can help but only until you get on the gas. trailbraking eases longitudinal transition by adding rear weight and helping the overburdened front. once you get on the gas weight shifts rearward and the last thing you want is to be on the brakes as it will impede your acceleration.
but you said that push is a problem thru most of the turn. i think, if your camber is correct, your wing is loading the rear and throwing off the balance so your front pushes. either add more downforce in front to balance or take wing out in the rear.
as i have stated aerodynamics is always an underestimated force. even in the slower corners your wing could easily generate enough downforce to destroy your balance.
it doesn't take much.
think of your car as a balanced teeter totter. if the fulcrum is in the exact middle how much weight does it take to make one end of the TT eventually touch the ground?
if the longitudinal balance is off just a touch it creates a positively re-enforcing negative situation. that's because one end of the car's tires will degrade. which leads to more degradation on each lap. which lead to more....
it is really all about balance. the most important instrument to gain control is the pyrometer.
hc
assuming that your toe is set correctly, i think your understeering situation is either a camber issue as Peter posits in post 70 or, as i suspect,your rear wing setting.
as Damian correctly posts trailbraking can help but only until you get on the gas. trailbraking eases longitudinal transition by adding rear weight and helping the overburdened front. once you get on the gas weight shifts rearward and the last thing you want is to be on the brakes as it will impede your acceleration.
but you said that push is a problem thru most of the turn. i think, if your camber is correct, your wing is loading the rear and throwing off the balance so your front pushes. either add more downforce in front to balance or take wing out in the rear.
as i have stated aerodynamics is always an underestimated force. even in the slower corners your wing could easily generate enough downforce to destroy your balance.
it doesn't take much.
think of your car as a balanced teeter totter. if the fulcrum is in the exact middle how much weight does it take to make one end of the TT eventually touch the ground?
if the longitudinal balance is off just a touch it creates a positively re-enforcing negative situation. that's because one end of the car's tires will degrade. which leads to more degradation on each lap. which lead to more....
it is really all about balance. the most important instrument to gain control is the pyrometer.
hc
Will also work more with the front suspension to get it to slightly oversteer or neutral.
What do u think about ride hight? Should they be ecual at both ends, or should the front be alittle lower then the rear? I used to proffesionaly race modell electric touring cars when i was younger. And we normaly run the car slightly lower in the front to give the car more stearing. But im not sure how that would be on a full scale car.
JT
02-09-08, 09:08 AM
#85
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
swaybars
i am in process of a DIY Speedway Engineering/Tripoint front bar. i believe the
.188 wall bar raises the roll stiffness approx 60% w an adj on either side....
so far i have $283 into it and still have to bend the arms, drill & tap 3 adj holes, and purchase and fixture the links. there is lots of work adapting the Speedway Eng mounting bracket to my Widefoot bar chassis mount. in retrospect i should have bought Widefoot's elegant bar to chassis mount.
my takeaway is that the Tripoint price, especially the yearend deal of $440, is a good deal. i do believe it is the best bar setup for the FD.
should you wish to spend lots less and have it almost all you might look at either the Racing Beat bar package or...
Tanabe.
i just received the info on the front bar so here is the info on the package.
front bar
chrome moly 30 MM O D// 20.4 I D up 30% V OEM
rear bar
chrome moly 20 MM O D// 15 MM I D up 38% V 93 OEM
these look good to me and i am going to purchase the rear bar to go w my front bar.
if you look around you will find them for $153 each. not bad.
hc
i am in process of a DIY Speedway Engineering/Tripoint front bar. i believe the
.188 wall bar raises the roll stiffness approx 60% w an adj on either side....
so far i have $283 into it and still have to bend the arms, drill & tap 3 adj holes, and purchase and fixture the links. there is lots of work adapting the Speedway Eng mounting bracket to my Widefoot bar chassis mount. in retrospect i should have bought Widefoot's elegant bar to chassis mount.
my takeaway is that the Tripoint price, especially the yearend deal of $440, is a good deal. i do believe it is the best bar setup for the FD.
should you wish to spend lots less and have it almost all you might look at either the Racing Beat bar package or...
Tanabe.
i just received the info on the front bar so here is the info on the package.
front bar
chrome moly 30 MM O D// 20.4 I D up 30% V OEM
rear bar
chrome moly 20 MM O D// 15 MM I D up 38% V 93 OEM
these look good to me and i am going to purchase the rear bar to go w my front bar.
if you look around you will find them for $153 each. not bad.
hc
02-09-08, 11:28 AM
#86
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02-09-08, 03:31 PM
#87
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Thread Starter
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i have the Widefoot swaybar chassis mount which i consider to be one of the very best engineered items ever to be offered for the fd. it makes everything else look like junk.
Widefoot also offers a bracket that the Speedway Engineering/Tripoint bar slides thru and then bolts to the chassis mount.
i bought Speedway's bar bracket. there's a bunch of adaptive fabbing that is required to mate it to the widefoot.
i definitely should have bought the entire Widefoot package considering the time required...
hc
Widefoot also offers a bracket that the Speedway Engineering/Tripoint bar slides thru and then bolts to the chassis mount.
i bought Speedway's bar bracket. there's a bunch of adaptive fabbing that is required to mate it to the widefoot.
i definitely should have bought the entire Widefoot package considering the time required...
hc
02-09-08, 04:03 PM
#89
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My only worry about the Tien SS coilovers is that I will be scrapping my bumper.
I run the Sanai bumper which is not as large as say a GTC bumper but I think it is 1 inch lower than a stocker w/ R1 lip. FWIW I run 17*9 wheels on 255/40 tires all around. Think I would have a problem with these coilovers?
I was planning on going for the Cusco Zero 2-e because of their "Fully threaded" feature which according to them helps to promote wheel travel and prevent bottoming out. Is this pure marketing BS or does it have some merit to it?
Thanks for the great thread.
I run the Sanai bumper which is not as large as say a GTC bumper but I think it is 1 inch lower than a stocker w/ R1 lip. FWIW I run 17*9 wheels on 255/40 tires all around. Think I would have a problem with these coilovers?
I was planning on going for the Cusco Zero 2-e because of their "Fully threaded" feature which according to them helps to promote wheel travel and prevent bottoming out. Is this pure marketing BS or does it have some merit to it?
Thanks for the great thread.
02-10-08, 12:15 AM
#91
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02-10-08, 01:13 PM
#92
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i have the Widefoot swaybar chassis mount which i consider to be one of the very best engineered items ever to be offered for the fd. it makes everything else look like junk.
Widefoot also offers a bracket that the Speedway Engineering/Tripoint bar slides thru and then bolts to the chassis mount.
i bought Speedway's bar bracket. there's a bunch of adaptive fabbing that is required to mate it to the widefoot.
i definitely should have bought the entire Widefoot package considering the time required...
hc
Widefoot also offers a bracket that the Speedway Engineering/Tripoint bar slides thru and then bolts to the chassis mount.
i bought Speedway's bar bracket. there's a bunch of adaptive fabbing that is required to mate it to the widefoot.
i definitely should have bought the entire Widefoot package considering the time required...
hc
Damn, I'm going to have to hire you as my publicist, Howard.
Thanks, that's really high praise. I'm really happy how well the Widefoot
mount's been accepted by FD people (rotary and V8) as the best swaybar
bracket available. I do get some folks balking at the price (now $245,
which is the cheapest billet version ever), but it's definitely a "get what
you pay for" part.
The Tri-Point style three piece swaybar adapter bushing that Howard
was talking about can be seen on this page, about 1/10th of the way
down:
http://www.v8rx7forum.com/scca-autoc...ot-mounts.html
They use the same type of bronze bushing as other vendors, but in
a custom aluminum base that bolts directly to the Widefoot mount.
However, spacers are also needed to drop the swaybar closer to the
OEM height, to avoid interference with the steering tie rods during
extreme suspension movements.
David Breslau
Widefoot Racing Co.
02-11-08, 04:07 PM
#93
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
swaybars (cont)
if you plan to run any stiffer aftermarket swaybar you will need to replace the OEM swaybar mount.
as i previously stated, Widefoot's swaybar mounts may be one of the best designed aftermarket items ever made for the FD
they are also as essential as they are elegant. as you can see they are more than sturdy enough to support vertical load but where they differ from other mounts is that the second piece sandwiches the frame rail so there is zero lateral deflection.
cool.
these just came off my car and have been in service for 8 years.
hc
if you plan to run any stiffer aftermarket swaybar you will need to replace the OEM swaybar mount.
as i previously stated, Widefoot's swaybar mounts may be one of the best designed aftermarket items ever made for the FD
they are also as essential as they are elegant. as you can see they are more than sturdy enough to support vertical load but where they differ from other mounts is that the second piece sandwiches the frame rail so there is zero lateral deflection.
cool.
these just came off my car and have been in service for 8 years.
hc
02-11-08, 05:58 PM
#95
Derwin
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My only worry about the Tien SS coilovers is that I will be scrapping my bumper.
I run the Sanai bumper which is not as large as say a GTC bumper but I think it is 1 inch lower than a stocker w/ R1 lip. FWIW I run 17*9 wheels on 255/40 tires all around. Think I would have a problem with these coilovers?
I was planning on going for the Cusco Zero 2-e because of their "Fully threaded" feature which according to them helps to promote wheel travel and prevent bottoming out. Is this pure marketing BS or does it have some merit to it?
Thanks for the great thread.
I run the Sanai bumper which is not as large as say a GTC bumper but I think it is 1 inch lower than a stocker w/ R1 lip. FWIW I run 17*9 wheels on 255/40 tires all around. Think I would have a problem with these coilovers?
I was planning on going for the Cusco Zero 2-e because of their "Fully threaded" feature which according to them helps to promote wheel travel and prevent bottoming out. Is this pure marketing BS or does it have some merit to it?
Thanks for the great thread.
02-11-08, 06:23 PM
#96
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swaybars (cont)
if you plan to run any stiffer aftermarket swaybar you will need to replace the OEM swaybar mount.
as i previously stated, Widefoot's swaybar mounts may be one of the best designed aftermarket items ever made for the FD
they are also as essential as they are elegant. as you can see they are more than sturdy enough to support vertical load but where they differ from other mounts is that the second piece sandwiches the frame rail so there is zero lateral deflection.
cool.
these just came off my car and have been in service for 8 years.
hc
if you plan to run any stiffer aftermarket swaybar you will need to replace the OEM swaybar mount.
as i previously stated, Widefoot's swaybar mounts may be one of the best designed aftermarket items ever made for the FD
they are also as essential as they are elegant. as you can see they are more than sturdy enough to support vertical load but where they differ from other mounts is that the second piece sandwiches the frame rail so there is zero lateral deflection.
cool.
these just came off my car and have been in service for 8 years.
hc
Hi Howard,
They do look to be in great shape - how'd you keep them so pretty? ;-)
Those are the "V2" mounts, I'm on V4 now. V3 was a change in design
(although the functionality is exactly the same), and they were also made
from 7075 aluminum, where all the rest have been 6061. V4 simplified
the side clamp a bit, and I went from three clamp screws to two.
Man, I've been making these things for over ten years now - where's
the time go...?
David Breslau
Widefoot Racing Co.
02-11-08, 07:04 PM
#97
Derwin
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An answer to my query would be especially appreciated since I got this email from ProStreet:
Hello sir,
We can special order a set for you with the spring rates you requested. This would be a special order and will also be an additional $150 for the custom spring rates. Please let us know if there is anything further we can assist you with sir.
Ryan Paek
Pro Street Motorsports
www.prostreetonline.com
1-888-776-7022
Hello sir,
We can special order a set for you with the spring rates you requested. This would be a special order and will also be an additional $150 for the custom spring rates. Please let us know if there is anything further we can assist you with sir.
Ryan Paek
Pro Street Motorsports
www.prostreetonline.com
1-888-776-7022
02-11-08, 07:53 PM
#98
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
dradon03... raises an excellent question.
"I was planning on going for the Cusco Zero 2-e because of their "Fully threaded" feature which according to them helps to promote wheel travel and prevent bottoming out. Is this pure marketing BS or does it have some merit to it?"
here's the deal.
as i mentioned 25 inches at the wheel well is the ride height you want for the track and street. and ride height, being one of the 2 determinents of lateral weight transfer, is IMPORTANT.
low is fast.
could you go lower? yes and no. as you lower the car w coil overs you are actually moving the static wheel position into "bump." that is the tire is going up in to the wheel well as you lower ride height. the FD, having a racecar geometry, increases negative camber in bump. that's because you get bump from roll in a corner. the negative camber gain offsets body roll and makes the FD rip.
as you lower the FD there comes a point where you can't adjust enough of the negative camber OUT to get back to, say, your 1.2 negative static setting. that's why you really can't go much lower.
of course you could make adj upper A arms
back to the point about height adj on coil overs independent from the lower spring perch.... it is all about securing enough shock travel. as you lower the car you lower the piston in the shock. at a certain point it is so low that the shock piston can bottom out in the shock tube.
at 25 inches this does not happen w the Tein SS so it doesn't need the additional adj feature.
one interesting feature of the Cusco zero 2e is they add a layer of rubber between the spring and the upper mount. i couldn't find the spring rate for the FD model. it needs to be 10/8 or 8/6.....
hc
"I was planning on going for the Cusco Zero 2-e because of their "Fully threaded" feature which according to them helps to promote wheel travel and prevent bottoming out. Is this pure marketing BS or does it have some merit to it?"
here's the deal.
as i mentioned 25 inches at the wheel well is the ride height you want for the track and street. and ride height, being one of the 2 determinents of lateral weight transfer, is IMPORTANT.
low is fast.
could you go lower? yes and no. as you lower the car w coil overs you are actually moving the static wheel position into "bump." that is the tire is going up in to the wheel well as you lower ride height. the FD, having a racecar geometry, increases negative camber in bump. that's because you get bump from roll in a corner. the negative camber gain offsets body roll and makes the FD rip.
as you lower the FD there comes a point where you can't adjust enough of the negative camber OUT to get back to, say, your 1.2 negative static setting. that's why you really can't go much lower.
of course you could make adj upper A arms
back to the point about height adj on coil overs independent from the lower spring perch.... it is all about securing enough shock travel. as you lower the car you lower the piston in the shock. at a certain point it is so low that the shock piston can bottom out in the shock tube.
at 25 inches this does not happen w the Tein SS so it doesn't need the additional adj feature.
one interesting feature of the Cusco zero 2e is they add a layer of rubber between the spring and the upper mount. i couldn't find the spring rate for the FD model. it needs to be 10/8 or 8/6.....
hc
02-11-08, 08:10 PM
#99
Derwin
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The spring rate from them is 10/8.
With your recommendation I am really leaning for this Tien SS setup with softer springs. I am just really worried that my bumper will be taking a big hit.
The facts pushing me towards Cusco Zero-2e are:
Stainless Body
Shocks by Showa
Fully threaded feature
Height adjustability is supposed to reduce shock travel
But for 700$ more than the Tiens how much is it really going to do for a mostly street driven car?
On a sidenote David your shock mounts look great definitively will be something to do when I upgrade swaybars.
With your recommendation I am really leaning for this Tien SS setup with softer springs. I am just really worried that my bumper will be taking a big hit.
The facts pushing me towards Cusco Zero-2e are:
Stainless Body
Shocks by Showa
Fully threaded feature
Height adjustability is supposed to reduce shock travel
But for 700$ more than the Tiens how much is it really going to do for a mostly street driven car?
On a sidenote David your shock mounts look great definitively will be something to do when I upgrade swaybars.
02-12-08, 04:25 PM
#100
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
i was sizing front tires today. i removed my coil over and front swaybar in order to enable me to move the LF tire up into the wheelwell.
while i was at it i decided to actually measure the camber gain.
wow.
the front wheel gained THREE DEGREES OF NEGATIVE CAMBER from ride height (25 inches) to two inches of bump. 2 inches looks like MAX STROKE at 25 BTW. you will not want any more than 2 inches. (that would be 1.2 inches on your tie wrap which should be on your front shock piston rod.
that's race car geometry. the car rolls two inches and you gain 3 degrees negative!
as to the tires for the front.... i really can't do the 265/35/18s. i will be going w the 255/35/18s for the front and 295/30/18s rear. (i have Burnout rear fender flares).
hc
while i was at it i decided to actually measure the camber gain.
wow.
the front wheel gained THREE DEGREES OF NEGATIVE CAMBER from ride height (25 inches) to two inches of bump. 2 inches looks like MAX STROKE at 25 BTW. you will not want any more than 2 inches. (that would be 1.2 inches on your tie wrap which should be on your front shock piston rod.
that's race car geometry. the car rolls two inches and you gain 3 degrees negative!
as to the tires for the front.... i really can't do the 265/35/18s. i will be going w the 255/35/18s for the front and 295/30/18s rear. (i have Burnout rear fender flares).
hc