UNDERRATED TECH: Journal Bearing
#1
2SoonJr
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UNDERRATED TECH: Journal Bearing
hello there Gurus,
i am currently in the process of pulling out my engine and rebuilding it myself, it is currently all stock, and plan on upgrading to a Single Turbine, but due to my budget with needing to purchasing all the supporting mods to complete this task, i have come to the conclusion of going "Journal Bearing" because it is a Tried & True technology with regards to Make and Model.
I plan on Daily Driving my FD as well as hitting up a few AutoX/Drag/Drift events in the future. i want my FD to be between 380-420 WHP hopefully @ 15psi on pump gas.
i am currently stuck between 3 turbos: 2 traditional 60-1 and a Hybrid 65
1) Classic GARRETT 60-1 (T04S)
PRICE: $800.
- Wheel: 60-1
- Wheel Type: P Trim
- Compressor In /Out: 4" / 2.5"
- T4 Divided Housing A/R with 3" V-Band: .84, 1.00
or
- T4 Undivided Housing A/R with 3" V-Band: .96
2) TURBONETICS T4 60-1 TURBO .81
PRICE: $750
- COMPRESSOR COVER SIZE: 60 SERIES
- Compressor Intake/Outtake: 4" / 2.5"
- H-61 COMPRESSOR WHEEL
- COMPRESSOR WHEEL DIAMETER: 61.41 / 81.99 mm
- F-1 65 TURBINE WHEEL
- TURBINE WHEEL DIAMETER : 64.99 / 74.16 mm
- TURBINE HOUSING AR : .81
- TURBINE FLANGE : T4 4 BOLT / 3" V BAND EXHAUST
- COOLING TYPE : DRY HOUSING ( OIL COOLED ONLY)
3) TURBONETICS HURRICANE TURBO CHARGER "LETY"
"The Hurricane 6665-4 (Code Name: Lety) is the third turbocharger in our Hurricane series. Our Hurricane Series turbochargers focus on packing our highest flowing compressor and turbine wheels into a compact unit for vehicles with space constraint issues that need big airflow to meet their horespower goals. The 6665-4 utilizes a 66mm compressor wheel within a traditional 60 series compressor cover. This uniquely packaged compressor configuration is married with a traditional T4 turbine wheel and housing combination (F1-65) to provide 500 to 600 HP worth of air and large pressure ratio potential in an extremely flexible package. This turbo is ideal for all out power 4 cylinders and most 6 cylinder and smaller displacement 8 cylinder engines. Available in either a standard beaing or Turbonetics patented ceramic ball bearing configuration." -Turobnetics Website
PRICE: $760
- TURBINE MODEL NUMBER : 6665-4
- HURRICANE NAME: LETY
- HORSE POWER: 500-600HP
- COMPRESSOR WHEEL: HP-66
- COMPRESSOR INTAKE/OUTTAKE: 4" / 2.5" PORTED SHROUD
- TURBINE WHEEL: F1-65
- TURBINE HOUSING: T4 FLANGE / .81 AR
- TURBINE IN / OUT : 3" V BAND
- PART NUMBER : 11226
- OIL COOLED ONLY
so far im leaning on the "LETY" but which of these turbos do you think would be the best option in regards to what i want to accomplish and finding the perfect "Sweet Spot" spool.
thank you very much for you time and consideration
-Rick
i am currently in the process of pulling out my engine and rebuilding it myself, it is currently all stock, and plan on upgrading to a Single Turbine, but due to my budget with needing to purchasing all the supporting mods to complete this task, i have come to the conclusion of going "Journal Bearing" because it is a Tried & True technology with regards to Make and Model.
I plan on Daily Driving my FD as well as hitting up a few AutoX/Drag/Drift events in the future. i want my FD to be between 380-420 WHP hopefully @ 15psi on pump gas.
i am currently stuck between 3 turbos: 2 traditional 60-1 and a Hybrid 65
1) Classic GARRETT 60-1 (T04S)
PRICE: $800.
- Wheel: 60-1
- Wheel Type: P Trim
- Compressor In /Out: 4" / 2.5"
- T4 Divided Housing A/R with 3" V-Band: .84, 1.00
or
- T4 Undivided Housing A/R with 3" V-Band: .96
2) TURBONETICS T4 60-1 TURBO .81
PRICE: $750
- COMPRESSOR COVER SIZE: 60 SERIES
- Compressor Intake/Outtake: 4" / 2.5"
- H-61 COMPRESSOR WHEEL
- COMPRESSOR WHEEL DIAMETER: 61.41 / 81.99 mm
- F-1 65 TURBINE WHEEL
- TURBINE WHEEL DIAMETER : 64.99 / 74.16 mm
- TURBINE HOUSING AR : .81
- TURBINE FLANGE : T4 4 BOLT / 3" V BAND EXHAUST
- COOLING TYPE : DRY HOUSING ( OIL COOLED ONLY)
3) TURBONETICS HURRICANE TURBO CHARGER "LETY"
"The Hurricane 6665-4 (Code Name: Lety) is the third turbocharger in our Hurricane series. Our Hurricane Series turbochargers focus on packing our highest flowing compressor and turbine wheels into a compact unit for vehicles with space constraint issues that need big airflow to meet their horespower goals. The 6665-4 utilizes a 66mm compressor wheel within a traditional 60 series compressor cover. This uniquely packaged compressor configuration is married with a traditional T4 turbine wheel and housing combination (F1-65) to provide 500 to 600 HP worth of air and large pressure ratio potential in an extremely flexible package. This turbo is ideal for all out power 4 cylinders and most 6 cylinder and smaller displacement 8 cylinder engines. Available in either a standard beaing or Turbonetics patented ceramic ball bearing configuration." -Turobnetics Website
PRICE: $760
- TURBINE MODEL NUMBER : 6665-4
- HURRICANE NAME: LETY
- HORSE POWER: 500-600HP
- COMPRESSOR WHEEL: HP-66
- COMPRESSOR INTAKE/OUTTAKE: 4" / 2.5" PORTED SHROUD
- TURBINE WHEEL: F1-65
- TURBINE HOUSING: T4 FLANGE / .81 AR
- TURBINE IN / OUT : 3" V BAND
- PART NUMBER : 11226
- OIL COOLED ONLY
so far im leaning on the "LETY" but which of these turbos do you think would be the best option in regards to what i want to accomplish and finding the perfect "Sweet Spot" spool.
thank you very much for you time and consideration
-Rick
#3
I made 384rwhp on a s4 engine (100% stock block no porting and so on) @ 15psi on the T04S (60-1) with fully divided ar 1.0.
U have a s6 engine and should be well over 400rwhp at 15psi!
Mine had ball bearing thou and i had full boost at about 3.6k rpm
U have a s6 engine and should be well over 400rwhp at 15psi!
Mine had ball bearing thou and i had full boost at about 3.6k rpm
#6
2SoonJr
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I dont know how I over looked the Borg Warner Air works modle.
But it seems like a very great option but my question with regards to the S300/S360 is:
Does this come with a 3" V-band?
OR
Do I have to actually opt to mill out the and weld on a 3" V-band turbo flange?
&
What spec should provide me the HP and excellent Spool "Sweet Spot" ?
I.E.
Turbine Wheel size?
Inlet/Outlet size?
A/R size?
Twin Scroll/Open Scroll?
☆ Thank you guys for all your input very useful information ☆
- Rick
But it seems like a very great option but my question with regards to the S300/S360 is:
Does this come with a 3" V-band?
OR
Do I have to actually opt to mill out the and weld on a 3" V-band turbo flange?
&
What spec should provide me the HP and excellent Spool "Sweet Spot" ?
I.E.
Turbine Wheel size?
Inlet/Outlet size?
A/R size?
Twin Scroll/Open Scroll?
☆ Thank you guys for all your input very useful information ☆
- Rick
#7
Rotary Motoring
iTrader: (9)
I would stick with the smaller 60-1 compressor for fastest spool and quality of the Garret over Turbonetics with the power goals you list.
Additionally, I would try to get a "P" trim exhaust wheel in a "big" 1.06AR GT35R T3 divided exhaust housing (or the Holset HX35 18.5 cm) on a divided T3 manifold for best spool while not choking out on the top end.
Now, my brilliant idea is to use the stock 3rd gen sequential turbo manifold/switching actuator as a quickspool valve.
send all the exhaust through 1 manifold/turbo runner at low rpm for maximum exhaust velocity and then switching to both manifold/turbo runners with an rpm switch for more top end flow. Obviously, it will only work with dual wastegate manifold- so there is some extra cost there.
Additionally, I would try to get a "P" trim exhaust wheel in a "big" 1.06AR GT35R T3 divided exhaust housing (or the Holset HX35 18.5 cm) on a divided T3 manifold for best spool while not choking out on the top end.
Now, my brilliant idea is to use the stock 3rd gen sequential turbo manifold/switching actuator as a quickspool valve.
send all the exhaust through 1 manifold/turbo runner at low rpm for maximum exhaust velocity and then switching to both manifold/turbo runners with an rpm switch for more top end flow. Obviously, it will only work with dual wastegate manifold- so there is some extra cost there.
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#9
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Assuming you spent the time to reinstall the supporting cast correctly, why would you do a small single for ~400hp for street use when sequential BNR's will easily do that and not give up so much down low...?
BNR's + Greddy V mount(only like 2400 from RHDJapan right now w/o shipping/duty fees) is about the same price as a decently sorted single setup using the basics but has OEM fitment(with a few OEM draw backs) retains all emissions components so it will pass visual(can atleast show it has the EGR/Air pump installed and argue the V-mount is just fixing the severe factory cooling limitation) and tail pipe inspection which in CA might be a good thing to keep.
Jason
BNR's + Greddy V mount(only like 2400 from RHDJapan right now w/o shipping/duty fees) is about the same price as a decently sorted single setup using the basics but has OEM fitment(with a few OEM draw backs) retains all emissions components so it will pass visual(can atleast show it has the EGR/Air pump installed and argue the V-mount is just fixing the severe factory cooling limitation) and tail pipe inspection which in CA might be a good thing to keep.
Jason
Last edited by Jason94R2; 04-16-15 at 05:51 PM.
#10
Rotary Motoring
iTrader: (9)
Jason94R2
Assuming you spent the time to reinstall the supporting cast correctly, why would you do a small single for ~400hp for street use when sequential BNR's will easily do that and not give up so much down low...?
BNR's + Greddy V mount(only like 2400 from RHDJapan right now w/o shipping/duty fees) is about the same price as a decently sorted single setup using the basics but has OEM fitment(with a few OEM draw backs) retains all emissions components so it will pass visual(can atleast show it has the EGR/Air pump installed and argue the V-mount is just fixing the severe factory cooling limitation) and tail pipe inspection which in CA might be a good thing to keep.
Jason
Reasons I can think of-
1) If you owned an FC.
2) If you couldn't figure out how stock sequentials work/how to maintain them.
3) If you are looking for a simpler robust set up to track.
4) If you really want 380-420rwhp and 350-380rwhp isn't enough.
For the record, I like my sequential twins FD powerband much more than my 60-1 FC and equal to my EFR 7670 FC.
Assuming you spent the time to reinstall the supporting cast correctly, why would you do a small single for ~400hp for street use when sequential BNR's will easily do that and not give up so much down low...?
BNR's + Greddy V mount(only like 2400 from RHDJapan right now w/o shipping/duty fees) is about the same price as a decently sorted single setup using the basics but has OEM fitment(with a few OEM draw backs) retains all emissions components so it will pass visual(can atleast show it has the EGR/Air pump installed and argue the V-mount is just fixing the severe factory cooling limitation) and tail pipe inspection which in CA might be a good thing to keep.
Jason
Reasons I can think of-
1) If you owned an FC.
2) If you couldn't figure out how stock sequentials work/how to maintain them.
3) If you are looking for a simpler robust set up to track.
4) If you really want 380-420rwhp and 350-380rwhp isn't enough.
For the record, I like my sequential twins FD powerband much more than my 60-1 FC and equal to my EFR 7670 FC.
#11
Rotary Enthusiast
The stock be s360 does not have a 3" vband it has a marmon flange which as I understand is very common in diesels. Either way you can buy the marmon flange easily and quite cheaply
#12
2SoonJr
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so with some but not very extensive research is that i plan on getting a Borg Warner S300 with a 90 degree Compressor Outlet
but the trouble with getting these turbos the way i want them gets a lil more expensive
so far the three models from the s300 line up all seem like a very great option but two of the three models (S300SX3-60 & S300SX3-63) come with a .88 A/R open scroll undivided
the BW S300SX3-66 is the only one that actually comes with sought after .91 A/R Twin Scroll Divided.
i found a place online that is selling the S300SX3-66 for $600 and don't get me wrong i am very sure that many people who track their cars think the compromise of getting the SX3-66 over the (SX3-60 or SX3-63) is all good, but for a street driven/a few track days car like mine, the S3-60 or the S3-63 seems like the better option with seeking out a .91 twin scroll divided housing of course, but thats another $140 + Shipping added to the price tag
can anyone with the the S3-66 .91 A/R have any good input on how laggy they are on the street?
thanks again for all your time and consideration
- RICK
but the trouble with getting these turbos the way i want them gets a lil more expensive
so far the three models from the s300 line up all seem like a very great option but two of the three models (S300SX3-60 & S300SX3-63) come with a .88 A/R open scroll undivided
the BW S300SX3-66 is the only one that actually comes with sought after .91 A/R Twin Scroll Divided.
i found a place online that is selling the S300SX3-66 for $600 and don't get me wrong i am very sure that many people who track their cars think the compromise of getting the SX3-66 over the (SX3-60 or SX3-63) is all good, but for a street driven/a few track days car like mine, the S3-60 or the S3-63 seems like the better option with seeking out a .91 twin scroll divided housing of course, but thats another $140 + Shipping added to the price tag
can anyone with the the S3-66 .91 A/R have any good input on how laggy they are on the street?
thanks again for all your time and consideration
- RICK
#15
Rotary Enthusiast
you can get them all with the .91 divided housing. see below link for the s300 / s360 , it dosent have a 90deg compressor outlet but that's not really a major.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BorgWarner-Airwerks-S360-S300-83-75-91-A-R-Twin-Scroll-Turbocharger-/121270709480?hash=item1c3c4c2ce8&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BorgWarner-Airwerks-S360-S300-83-75-91-A-R-Twin-Scroll-Turbocharger-/121270709480?hash=item1c3c4c2ce8&vxp=mtr
Last edited by 96fd3s; 04-18-15 at 09:03 PM.
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I am running the BW S300 .88 with the 90* compressor outlet and I absolutely love it!!
~10psi by 3800rpm. Don't know hp yet. But it's response is brutal in 2nd and 3rd
~10psi by 3800rpm. Don't know hp yet. But it's response is brutal in 2nd and 3rd
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for street cars in this power range - the 61.4mm S300SX FMW is my recommendation, with 0.91 a/r -- it includes a beefy journal bearing, Forged-milled compressor wheel (aka billet) and cupped tip turbine wheel option is a good consideration on 13B
#22
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i will also recommend the S300SX - S360 .91
i am running 9-10psi and the response is good -- not the best, but good, especially for $700 (177272).
i got mine for $620 while boostlab.com had them on sale, but now they're back up to $730
and really, you'll love the borg warner "whistle". haha.
i am running 9-10psi and the response is good -- not the best, but good, especially for $700 (177272).
i got mine for $620 while boostlab.com had them on sale, but now they're back up to $730
and really, you'll love the borg warner "whistle". haha.
#24
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I was just wondering if there was a reason nobody mentioned them. Im running one on a large street-port, hits max boost (7psi) at 3000rpm with no boost controller in effect and no lag between gear changes. Embarrassingly i am still yet to source a decent tune to find out what she can really do.
Last edited by WANKfactor; 05-06-15 at 03:02 AM.
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