Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

What is the general rule RWHP limit for a single 044 running upgraded wiring and upgraded fuel lines?


I have a single Walbro 400, wired direct 12/14v 10ga, 8AN Feed 6AN Return on the 20b.

Car made 630rwhp on pump+meth at 16psi and 720+ (spinning) 22psi on SINGLE walbro 400.


I do not trust this pump as it gets very loud after extended driving time. I wish to switch to a 044. Is this adequate?

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

The Bosch '044 is king of high pressure still I think.

the '044 flows ~16% less at 70psi, ~10% less at 80psi, ~1% less at 90psi and ~55% more at 100psi compared to the Walbro 400l/hr.

The '044 draws 2amps less per given pressure.

If for some reason you overboost or raise the boost the '044 will have no problem supplying fuel at the resulting high fuel pressures, whereas the Walbro will take a dump in flow right when you need it most.

It would be interesting to see what the fuel pressures are at the pump compared to at the regulator in normal use as well.

Bosch '044 measured here-
Fuel Pump Shootout - Fueling for Power - Import Tuner Magazine

Walbro 400 here-

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for that information.

The car is not running much boost so fuel pressures are not much higher than 60-62psi.

My worry is that the walbro 400 is supplying an unusually high amount of fuel for my horsepower level as the 20b makes the power at such low pressures where the Walbro can soar. In most rx7 applications, comparable #'s would be achieved at 35-40psi of boost, where a 400 would suck !

So the flow chart shows 346liter/hr rating at 60psi.

Now the bosch only shows around 290liters at comparable pressure, although it holds steady to higher levels.

My worry is that I install the bosch, go for 16psi and run lean, as the 290l/hr isnt enough for 600hp on rotary applications.

Based upon what iv read seems that a bosch 044 should support 685-700 break horsepower. And lets not forgetim usinf 1000cc water meth to add more to the mixture.

So im wondering, do you think I should leave the wally 400 in tank, doa surge with twin 044 or find a way to run twin 044 in tank?

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

044 good for about 500hp in a rotary

you should have dual pumps, you can squeeze 2 044's in there if you really try or use a different pair of pumps. A lot has come out since the 044 was king of the hill, pumps that are much more compact. Look into the CJ Motorsports dual pump set up for your car.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Bummer.

Have you looked into the newer surge tank designs that have integrated pumps?

You might end up needing a fuel surge tank and these would simplify the mounting of the pumps.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

there is a pretty detailed analysis of pumps stickied in this section, go check it out

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Thanks guys, yea I liked the fact that the single 400 supplied enough fuel for 720rwhp

Today the pump acted fine. But when it gets hot after hrs of driving it becomes louder and pressure drops about 5psi. Weird.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

.....but some of these newer more compact pumps aren't all they're cracked up to be.

The Aeromotive Stealth 340 l/hr pump gave all sorts of issues on my friend's FD. Not holding fuel pressure at 'high' (20 psi) boost and the red plastic body of the pump degraded enough that the nipple got weak and broke off when swapping out the 5/16th hose:

340 Stealth Fuel Pump Center Inlet - Aeromotive

Granted this is a single instance we're talking about, but I'll stick with my Bosch 044

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

That is not good. Sounds like your pump is starting to go bad. 044 may not be the best pumps anymore but there are darn reliable. Anything used as OEM equipment in mas-produced vehicles should be.

If you do go with dual 044 do not do them in tank. The factory FD tanks baffle is horrible and adding 2 huge pumps make the issue 10x worse. I have gone lean during spirited driving with just under a 1/2 tank with 2 in tank 044's. It's honestly a ticking time bomb.

I have since moved them to a surge tank and have never had another issue. I have gone full boost and over 600whp with the low fuel light on with no issues what so ever. Surge tank is the way to go if you are going to use massive amounts of fuel which you are.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Thanks,

The 044 order has been cancelled. A spare Walbro 400 will be installed to confirm whether this is a specific pump issue or not. If problem persists, likely pump with a lesser amperage requirment will be installed, like the 044 and then that will be ran to a swirl pot, feeding an A1000 to the engine in-line.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

You should know the A1000 flows for crap even at normal fuel rail pressures.



I suggest anything easy to install in tank to dual '044 in surge tank.

I would put the $260 Xenocron surge tank in the spare tire well with a sheetmetal cover.

zayrx7

Here is another pump to consider
DW350iL Fuel Pump Tech | Fuel Pump Tech | Resources | DeatschWerks

Vicoor

has anyone tried one of these yet?

veyron fuel pump

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

DW350il looks like a Bosch '044 rip off.

That could be a good thing.

DW350il is shown to flow more though, I bet that is mostly due to the larger -8an in and out fittings and the plumbing (lack of) of the test bench. Plumb it down to -6an and I bet it flows same as '044 it is a copy of.

On the other hand, if you already have a single -8an feed and trust DW quality then it looks like a great solution for aftermarket pumps.

I don't believe it is rated for Ethanol as the '044 is though.
------

Veyron pump also flows more than '044, and it looks like its dimensions would suit a dual in tank set-up very well if you are confident you won't need a surge tank (drag vs road course).

------


found Veyron one too

zayrx7

If I'm correct I think Bosch makes the pump for them and it is rate to run E85

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

If I'm correct I think Bosch makes the pump for them and it is rate to run E85

Sounds like the usual crap these knock off companies say about their products or allow such rumors to persist.

If this were fact DeatschWerks would proudly and loudly advertise this on their website as it is a great selling point.

Just Google "DeatschWerks fuel pump failure" and let me know if you want to take the chance on their pumps in such a critical application.

zayrx7

if Bosch is making the pump then it should be good

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

If Bosch made the pump then that would be good.

The DW350iL is NOT made by Bosch. It is another knock off.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

+1. A1000 is not ment to be run for long periods of time. A friend of mine with a boosted LS FD went through 3 of these before switching to dual 044's. His car is not a DD bit he does long canyon runs and the A1000 would always overheat when on for to long. Great for a race only car but not worth it for a street car.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Another '044 knock off to consider if you are interested in the DW350iL.

AEM 380lph inline pump. This one has -10 orb inlet and -6an outlet. This one has a metal (zamac) outlet instead of plastic like the DW350iL.




Chart shows impressive flow and its even cheaper ($180) than DW350iL and they have the decency to tell you its life will shorter used with E85.



Plus, it matches OP's car

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

What about the Pierburg E3L or "Veyron" pump. Outflows 044 by a substantial amount at normal pressures, is quiet and is supposed to use much less current.
I dont have info or links at my fingertips because on phone, but just wondering if anyone else has an opinion or insigjt into these.
I replaced my old noisy externally mounted 044 with the E3L because 044 was going to be marginal at normal base pressurse with the new power goals. Can confirm it is much easier on the ears but havent put it to the test yet.
Slightly pricey but was pretty much the only externally mountable pump i could find to suit my goals without going stupif overkill.
The otjer funny thing is the dicky 8mm 90° outlet on them.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

if you google the pierburg pump a picture of monsterbox's car pops up, so thats the one he should go with.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

You guys are awesome!

That AEM 380LPH looks great on the flow charts! It flows a few LPH more at each pressure point then the Walbro 400!



So far my pump has been doing "ok". When the car hits around 200F and heatsoaks in the traffic, the pump gets louder and the fuel pressure comes down about 5-7psi. After doing some more hunting around it seems its possible that this drop in pressure could also be attributed to the Regulator spring warming up and expanding and/or the density of the fuel changing.

I'm going to try "correcting" the pressure when its hot and dropped. While doing so, we'll see if the pump can crank out say 70-80psi base as a test in this environment.

Have you guys noticed fuel pressure changes with heat?

I'm thinking its possible that one must set the base pressure at max operating temp!

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

^That looks interesting

billyboy

A lot of these big pumps put huge amounts of heat into the fuel with the amount of recirculation, especially when the tank level is lower, so wouldn't be surprised.

Dual 044s seem to be the worst - and a fuel cooler should be in place. If someone devised a deadhead system, that would be the way to go.