Gt35r
10-20-14, 08:05 PM
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Gt35r
Hi guys need a little help here!!
I was going to run a efr8374 but my budget is a but low right now.. Will run it later on... So going with my second choice the gt35r that I will be getting form turblown.
So the goal is 500hp on a stock port but later on will go with a street port.. And pump gas not e83
So what else would I need to achieve this hp???
These are some of the parts that I'll be installing soon....
The Xcessive FD Lower Intake Manifold sports 4 and fuel rail, ACT 6 Puck Sprung Hub Clutch, rotary works CNC Cut Billet Aluminum Throttle Body and elbow, ETS RX-7 Front Mount Intercooler Kit from dragonmotorsport, a tail external 50mm bov, and a PFC..
So need help with wastgate, exhaust manifold, down pipe and what exhaust, fuel injectors and sizes, fuel pump also if I should run AN line starting at the firewall, I want to remove the fuel filter from it stock location!! Spark plugs and wires, and coils
What would you guys recommend????
Thanks jc
I was going to run a efr8374 but my budget is a but low right now.. Will run it later on... So going with my second choice the gt35r that I will be getting form turblown.
So the goal is 500hp on a stock port but later on will go with a street port.. And pump gas not e83
So what else would I need to achieve this hp???
These are some of the parts that I'll be installing soon....
The Xcessive FD Lower Intake Manifold sports 4 and fuel rail, ACT 6 Puck Sprung Hub Clutch, rotary works CNC Cut Billet Aluminum Throttle Body and elbow, ETS RX-7 Front Mount Intercooler Kit from dragonmotorsport, a tail external 50mm bov, and a PFC..
So need help with wastgate, exhaust manifold, down pipe and what exhaust, fuel injectors and sizes, fuel pump also if I should run AN line starting at the firewall, I want to remove the fuel filter from it stock location!! Spark plugs and wires, and coils
What would you guys recommend????
Thanks jc
10-21-14, 07:31 AM
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I would run a lower WHP target and run the EFR8374 turbo. Get the turbo with a wastegate, and they come with a BOV. so you save on that aspect from that kit. I would run low 400WHP and do a supra turbo fuel pump, run 650CC primary and 2000cc secondary with full function engineering fuel rails. run a A1000-6 aeromotive FPR. make your own fuel lines. have someone provide you a manifold and downpipe and be done with it. use the stock TB, UIM, LIM.
Run a V-mount with a modest size intercooler, nothing too large. run the intake next to it to the front of the mouth of the car. cool intake temps, fast response, cool water temps.
buy a remedy water pump, call it a day.
Run a V-mount with a modest size intercooler, nothing too large. run the intake next to it to the front of the mouth of the car. cool intake temps, fast response, cool water temps.
buy a remedy water pump, call it a day.
10-21-14, 08:02 AM
#5
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"gt35r... the goal is 500hp on a stock port... pump gas"
"I would recommend a much more modest hp goal if you plan on running a gt35r"
you have a potential mismatch as to your power target and turbo.
either adjust your power target lower or select a different turbo.
if you are on a tight budget i suggest the BW S300 63 (part number 177283). it is dirt cheap, OE build quality and can make up to 550 so it will not be straining at 500. it has a much much larger turbine wheel than the tiny GT35 hotside... 6.3 square inches to 5.1. the larger hotside promotes spool, lowers exhaust back pressure and intake air pollution/heat from the previous rotor face.
it will also give a very good account of itself after you have ported the motor and uprated your setup. you may not need the EFR. i am not totally convinced that having mega power at 2500 rpm is a great thing... your car will just go sideways as it can only hook up so much power and given a properly ported rotary is happy to 9000 rpm what are you doing at 2500? shifting puts you above 5000.
i see a throttle body on the list.... the stock throttle body works very well w the OE UIM. since the LIM runners are 5.70 total area, the stock TB is 8.54 what is gained w the 90 mm 9.85 TB? a 90 mm single plate throttle body presents one large hole which does not line up well w the OE UIM.
i suggest that you re-allocate the money to something you did not mention that will help your engine from breaking: a proper water meth system. /Coolingmist, Snow, Alkycontrol.
Tial makes a 60 mm wastegate which will work properly if you have a good turbo manifold. the 60 mm WG has 22% more area. you will need it.
hard wire a Walbro 9000262 fuel pump and you are fine at 550 gas.
the Power FC is (still) an excellent ECU choice when combined w a Datalogit. of course there are many newer ECU options but there is nothing wrong w the PFC.
good luck,
howard
"I would recommend a much more modest hp goal if you plan on running a gt35r"
you have a potential mismatch as to your power target and turbo.
either adjust your power target lower or select a different turbo.
if you are on a tight budget i suggest the BW S300 63 (part number 177283). it is dirt cheap, OE build quality and can make up to 550 so it will not be straining at 500. it has a much much larger turbine wheel than the tiny GT35 hotside... 6.3 square inches to 5.1. the larger hotside promotes spool, lowers exhaust back pressure and intake air pollution/heat from the previous rotor face.
it will also give a very good account of itself after you have ported the motor and uprated your setup. you may not need the EFR. i am not totally convinced that having mega power at 2500 rpm is a great thing... your car will just go sideways as it can only hook up so much power and given a properly ported rotary is happy to 9000 rpm what are you doing at 2500? shifting puts you above 5000.
i see a throttle body on the list.... the stock throttle body works very well w the OE UIM. since the LIM runners are 5.70 total area, the stock TB is 8.54 what is gained w the 90 mm 9.85 TB? a 90 mm single plate throttle body presents one large hole which does not line up well w the OE UIM.
i suggest that you re-allocate the money to something you did not mention that will help your engine from breaking: a proper water meth system. /Coolingmist, Snow, Alkycontrol.
Tial makes a 60 mm wastegate which will work properly if you have a good turbo manifold. the 60 mm WG has 22% more area. you will need it.
hard wire a Walbro 9000262 fuel pump and you are fine at 550 gas.
the Power FC is (still) an excellent ECU choice when combined w a Datalogit. of course there are many newer ECU options but there is nothing wrong w the PFC.
good luck,
howard
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-21-14 at 10:22 AM.
10-21-14, 09:21 AM
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"gt35r... the goal is 500hp on a stock port... pump gas"
"I would recommend a much more modest hp goal if you plan on running a gt35r"
you have a potential mismatch as to your power target and turbo.
either adjust your power target lower or select a different turbo.
if you are on a tight budget i suggest the BW S300 63 (part number 177283). it is dirt cheap, OE build quality and can make up to 550 so it will not be straining at 500. it has a much much larger turbine wheel than the tiny GT35 hotside... 6.3 square inches to 5.1. the larger hotside promotes spool, lowers exhaust back pressure and intake air pollution/heat from the previous rotor face.
it will also give a very good account of itself after you have ported the motor and uprated your setup. you may not need the EFR. i am not totally convinced that having mega power at 2500 rpm is a great thing... your car will just go sideways as it can only hook up so much power and given a properly ported rotary is happy to 9000 rpm what are you doing at 2500? shifting puts you above 5000.
i see a throttle body on the list.... the stock throttle body works very well w the OE UIM. since the LIM runners are 5.70 total area, the stock TB is 8.54 what is gained w the 90 mm 9.85 TB? a 90 mm single plate throttle body presents one large hole which does not line up well w the OE UIM.
i suggest that you re-allocate the money to something you did not mention that will help your engine from breaking: a proper water meth system. /Coolingmist, Snow, Alkycontrol.
Tial makes a 60 mm wastegate which will work properly if you have a good turbo manifold. the 60 mm WG has 22% more area. you will need it.
hard wire a Walbro 9000262 fuel pump and you are fine at 550 gas.
the Power FC is (still) an excellent ECU choice when combined w a Datalogit. of course there are many newer ECU options but there is nothing wrong w the PFC.
good luck,
howard
"I would recommend a much more modest hp goal if you plan on running a gt35r"
you have a potential mismatch as to your power target and turbo.
either adjust your power target lower or select a different turbo.
if you are on a tight budget i suggest the BW S300 63 (part number 177283). it is dirt cheap, OE build quality and can make up to 550 so it will not be straining at 500. it has a much much larger turbine wheel than the tiny GT35 hotside... 6.3 square inches to 5.1. the larger hotside promotes spool, lowers exhaust back pressure and intake air pollution/heat from the previous rotor face.
it will also give a very good account of itself after you have ported the motor and uprated your setup. you may not need the EFR. i am not totally convinced that having mega power at 2500 rpm is a great thing... your car will just go sideways as it can only hook up so much power and given a properly ported rotary is happy to 9000 rpm what are you doing at 2500? shifting puts you above 5000.
i see a throttle body on the list.... the stock throttle body works very well w the OE UIM. since the LIM runners are 5.70 total area, the stock TB is 8.54 what is gained w the 90 mm 9.85 TB? a 90 mm single plate throttle body presents one large hole which does not line up well w the OE UIM.
i suggest that you re-allocate the money to something you did not mention that will help your engine from breaking: a proper water meth system. /Coolingmist, Snow, Alkycontrol.
Tial makes a 60 mm wastegate which will work properly if you have a good turbo manifold. the 60 mm WG has 22% more area. you will need it.
hard wire a Walbro 9000262 fuel pump and you are fine at 550 gas.
the Power FC is (still) an excellent ECU choice when combined w a Datalogit. of course there are many newer ECU options but there is nothing wrong w the PFC.
good luck,
howard
I'm glad that somebody else is convinced that the EFR may not the be the best application on a rotary.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-21-14 at 10:23 AM.
10-21-14, 10:30 AM
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If you take a step back and try to work a build from a simplicity stand point, the EFR is an awesome turbo. It comes with the BOV on the turbo, the wastegate on the turbo with an IWG model. This means no wastegate on the manifold, no coolant lines going to the wastegate, no vacuum lines going to the wastegate next to a piping hot manifold. Then you don't have to worry about welding on a BOV to an intercooler pipe. this is all money and extra failure points. Then you have the lower moment of inertia turbine wheel for better spool and a great size turbine to compressor wheel ratio. It wins in all areas. I am not dissing the GT35, I own one, but the EFR8374 is superior w/respect to simplicity, durability, wheel ratio's, spool, and cost. less components, OEM mfger, etc.
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10-21-14, 10:34 AM
#8
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"... is convinced that the EFR may not the be the best application on a rotary."
there are many attractive aspects to BW's EFR line. given boost control management, the early power may not be an issue and of course there is always your right foot.
dynamic spool is a good thing especially as it carries over into the upper RPM areas on shifting. it is just that it is important to understand that gobs of power down low doesn't translate generally into vehicle response because there's this thing called traction.
turbo buyers might also look at the mid price range BW options which are the FMW options. priced between the S300 base turbos and the EFR line, the FMW sports the same (as the EFR) seriously engineered billet 21st century compressor wheels w an uprated journal bearing assembly.
i expect to dyno the S300 64 FMW after dynoing my EFR 9180.
the FMW line might offer the best value of the bunch.
howard
there are many attractive aspects to BW's EFR line. given boost control management, the early power may not be an issue and of course there is always your right foot.
dynamic spool is a good thing especially as it carries over into the upper RPM areas on shifting. it is just that it is important to understand that gobs of power down low doesn't translate generally into vehicle response because there's this thing called traction.
turbo buyers might also look at the mid price range BW options which are the FMW options. priced between the S300 base turbos and the EFR line, the FMW sports the same (as the EFR) seriously engineered billet 21st century compressor wheels w an uprated journal bearing assembly.
i expect to dyno the S300 64 FMW after dynoing my EFR 9180.
the FMW line might offer the best value of the bunch.
howard
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-21-14 at 10:37 AM.
10-21-14, 10:38 AM
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The EFR wins in so many categories that it makes other options much less attractive. That is why I recommend them to people on here. I have ridden in an EFR7670, and I have a GT3574R turbo on my ride. I have tuned a few single turbo's as well. so I know how their fuel maps look like and how the car feels when driven.
If you take a step back and try to work a build from a simplicity stand point, the EFR is an awesome turbo. It comes with the BOV on the turbo, the wastegate on the turbo with an IWG model. This means no wastegate on the manifold, no coolant lines going to the wastegate, no vacuum lines going to the wastegate next to a piping hot manifold. Then you don't have to worry about welding on a BOV to an intercooler pipe. this is all money and extra failure points. Then you have the lower moment of inertia turbine wheel for better spool and a great size turbine to compressor wheel ratio. It wins in all areas. I am not dissing the GT35, I own one, but the EFR8374 is superior w/respect to simplicity, durability, wheel ratio's, spool, and cost. less components, OEM mfger, etc.
If you take a step back and try to work a build from a simplicity stand point, the EFR is an awesome turbo. It comes with the BOV on the turbo, the wastegate on the turbo with an IWG model. This means no wastegate on the manifold, no coolant lines going to the wastegate, no vacuum lines going to the wastegate next to a piping hot manifold. Then you don't have to worry about welding on a BOV to an intercooler pipe. this is all money and extra failure points. Then you have the lower moment of inertia turbine wheel for better spool and a great size turbine to compressor wheel ratio. It wins in all areas. I am not dissing the GT35, I own one, but the EFR8374 is superior w/respect to simplicity, durability, wheel ratio's, spool, and cost. less components, OEM mfger, etc.
10-21-14, 10:40 AM
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"... is convinced that the EFR may not the be the best application on a rotary."
there are many attractive aspects to BW's EFR line. given boost control management, the early power may not be an issue and of course there is always your right foot.
dynamic spool is a good thing especially as it carries over into the upper RPM areas on shifting. it is just that it is important to understand that gobs of power down low doesn't translate generally into vehicle response because there's this thing called traction.
turbo buyers might also look at the mid price range BW options which are the FMW options. priced between the S300 base turbos and the EFR line, the FMW sports the same (as the EFR) seriously engineered billet 21st century compressor wheels w an uprated journal bearing assembly.
i expect to dyno the S300 64 FMW after dynoing my EFR 9180.
the FMW line might offer the best value of the bunch.
howard
there are many attractive aspects to BW's EFR line. given boost control management, the early power may not be an issue and of course there is always your right foot.
dynamic spool is a good thing especially as it carries over into the upper RPM areas on shifting. it is just that it is important to understand that gobs of power down low doesn't translate generally into vehicle response because there's this thing called traction.
turbo buyers might also look at the mid price range BW options which are the FMW options. priced between the S300 base turbos and the EFR line, the FMW sports the same (as the EFR) seriously engineered billet 21st century compressor wheels w an uprated journal bearing assembly.
i expect to dyno the S300 64 FMW after dynoing my EFR 9180.
the FMW line might offer the best value of the bunch.
howard
10-21-14, 11:17 AM
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I am not sure on the exact cost of the BW S362 series turbo, but what are the extra costs of running a wastegate or dual wastegates off the manifold, extra manifold welding costs? cost for creating the water lines to the wastegate, risk of vacuum line failing to one or both wastegates, cost of BOV, and the welding of the BOV to the intercooler?
Perhaps the value approach isn't of any greater value as a whole package. That is the point I am making.
I see HUGE value on track or the street pulling a gear higher at 3500-4000rpms and going through a corner in a higher gear.
The 4 stroke dirt bikes dominated because riders could ride through a gear higher in a corner and pull out without shifting. dominating the 2 cycle engines.
10-21-14, 02:39 PM
#14
I really like the simplicity of the IWG EFR turbos first off. Secondly, many many people are wanting a fast spooling turbo for more power sooner. Just ask all the v8 swapped rx7 owners. I think this turbo may bridge the gap between the v8 and the rotary's peaky nature. Perhaps a solution to the no traction issue is to use a boost controller that's capable of different boost levels in different gears.
10-21-14, 04:49 PM
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i understand re the EFR internal WG and BOV... makes things simple.
for those who already have an external WG setup... i took a quick look at the EFR 8374 and S300 64 FMW compressor maps...
the EFR and the 64 FMW both do 74/75 pounds (565 rotary rwhp SAE) at 29.4 psi.
this is at 64% efficiency so you can add another almost 7% additional hp compared to the typical comp map at 60%...
pretty much the same compressor as the EFR...
howard
for those who already have an external WG setup... i took a quick look at the EFR 8374 and S300 64 FMW compressor maps...
the EFR and the 64 FMW both do 74/75 pounds (565 rotary rwhp SAE) at 29.4 psi.
this is at 64% efficiency so you can add another almost 7% additional hp compared to the typical comp map at 60%...
pretty much the same compressor as the EFR...
howard
10-21-14, 04:58 PM
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i understand re the EFR internal WG and BOV... makes things simple.
for those who already have an external WG setup... i took a quick look at the EFR 8374 and S300 64 FMW compressor maps...
the EFR and the 64 FMW both do 74/75 pounds (565 rotary rwhp SAE) at 29.4 psi.
this is at 64% efficiency so you can add another almost 7% additional hp compared to the typical comp map at 60%...
pretty much the same compressor as the EFR...
howard
for those who already have an external WG setup... i took a quick look at the EFR 8374 and S300 64 FMW compressor maps...
the EFR and the 64 FMW both do 74/75 pounds (565 rotary rwhp SAE) at 29.4 psi.
this is at 64% efficiency so you can add another almost 7% additional hp compared to the typical comp map at 60%...
pretty much the same compressor as the EFR...
howard
Is anybody on here running it??
10-21-14, 05:25 PM
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I think we have one local guy who is running that turbo. I am going to tune his car but not sure if it is ready yet. I can get the specifics of the turbo when I tune it...if that happens this year.
10-23-14, 02:47 PM
#20
A standard gt35r can hit 500 rwhp, but it is going to take close to 30 lbs of boost on a rotary. I did 476 at 26 lbs with a pretty aggressive tune and porting years ago. If you are on a budget I wouldn't spend the money on the 35r. Turblown's TDX 60 and 61 would be more suitable to break 500 and will be less expensive.
10-24-14, 01:56 AM
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A standard gt35r can hit 500 rwhp, but it is going to take close to 30 lbs of boost on a rotary. I did 476 at 26 lbs with a pretty aggressive tune and porting years ago. If you are on a budget I wouldn't spend the money on the 35r. Turblown's TDX 60 and 61 would be more suitable to break 500 and will be less expensive.
10-24-14, 07:21 AM
#22
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here's the best of the (non-GTX) GT35 compressor maps
the maps are generated by compressed air powering the wheel and as such can show flow where they may not be able to be driven by a particular engine... many of the previous posts do square w the map.
for instance...
494 around 20.
20 is 2.36 absolute pressure ratios on the Y scale. the max flow at 60% efficiency is around 67 pounds per minute.
67 X 14.471 is 969 CFM / 1.92 = 505 rw rotary hp (SAE)
476 at 26
2.76 on the Y scale
68 X 14.471 = 984 CFM / 1.92 = 512 rw rotary hp (SAE)
take a look at the RPM line at these areas on the map. it is almost vertical which means STALL.
Stall means the forces against the wheel are equal to the driven force. when this happens temperatures skyrocket above 400 F and your motor IATs will quickly reach the point where detonation is right around the corner.
you do not want to go there.
so can a GT35 do 500? yes but you in a dangerous neighborhood for motor health.
that's why i recommend a medium (7 inch compressor) size turbo for 500.
howard
the maps are generated by compressed air powering the wheel and as such can show flow where they may not be able to be driven by a particular engine... many of the previous posts do square w the map.
for instance...
494 around 20.
20 is 2.36 absolute pressure ratios on the Y scale. the max flow at 60% efficiency is around 67 pounds per minute.
67 X 14.471 is 969 CFM / 1.92 = 505 rw rotary hp (SAE)
476 at 26
2.76 on the Y scale
68 X 14.471 = 984 CFM / 1.92 = 512 rw rotary hp (SAE)
take a look at the RPM line at these areas on the map. it is almost vertical which means STALL.
Stall means the forces against the wheel are equal to the driven force. when this happens temperatures skyrocket above 400 F and your motor IATs will quickly reach the point where detonation is right around the corner.
you do not want to go there.
so can a GT35 do 500? yes but you in a dangerous neighborhood for motor health.
that's why i recommend a medium (7 inch compressor) size turbo for 500.
howard
10-24-14, 09:29 PM
#24
I've seen 48xrwhp @ 30psi trailing down to 21psi by 8k rpms on a T4 GT35R. On race gas, large street port etc.
Now our TDX61 will make 550rwhp @ 24-26psi, as it will hold much higher boost pressures to redline( bigger turbine wheel).
Now our TDX61 will make 550rwhp @ 24-26psi, as it will hold much higher boost pressures to redline( bigger turbine wheel).
