ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

We're still not 100% sure but I think I have a bad coolant seal which means it's time for a rebuild. While the engine is out (and it needs to be retuned anyway) it's a great time to go single and do things right.

I'm aiming for no more than 450whp but want a turbo that can support about 500. Reason being is that I know power is addictive and if I start with 400 I'll end up going higher later and I'd hate to completely replace the setup later. So a LITTLE headroom is desired. Steve Kan will be tuning the car and likely doing the rebuild. I also want this thing to spool like a monster. I have 290whp on stock sequential twins right now and like the spool time.

Current Mods

• Peter Farrell Supercars SMIC
• ID2000 secondaries and stock primaries
• Apexi PowerFC
• 3" exhaust all the way back
• Rotary Performance high flow fuel pump
• Cooling Stuff (Fluidyne rad, stock dual oil coolers, Pettit AST)
• Street/strip clutch (not sure what kind, it was on the car when I bought it)

When we do the rebuild I'm also planning to do a streetport. So far I'm liking the way the BorgWarner setups look. Having everything contained on the turbo itself seems like a neat idea but I'd like to hear how that works in reality from someone who has been running one for a while.

What should I be looking at and what else will I need to support my desired ~450whp goal?

Slow2k

iTrader: (9)

Bw efr.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

That's what I'm looking at right now. The 8374 seems to support the ultimate power level I'm wanting but I'm worried about spool time. The 7670 will spool quicker but their site says the 7670 will only support 400whp on the 13b. Is that true? Seems beefy for only 400...

ItalynStylion

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And thank you mods for moving this thread to the appropriate section. I basically live in the 3rd gen section and didn't realize this single specific section existed.

shawnm565

iTrader: (3)

Italyn I am using the 8374 and the car is a rocket! I made 27lbs boost at 3200 rpms... Full TQ at 3600 rpms. When I am on the track and I hit the gas there is no delay pretty much instant spool. Its interesting you don't feel that punch of power of a late spooling car it just goes. I will be retuning the car for 35PSI on september 4th should be fun . I would go with Turblown full kit as it fits well and produces great power/response!

Here is a video of me rolling racing at the local track in my area... If you are not interested in the IWG check out Mannykiller's build thread his 8374 External WG setup is pretty wicked as well.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

^ I actually watched your video earlier today. I saw your mods list at the end but I didn't see how much power you were making. Mind sharing?

PS: Nice save near the end!

shawnm565

iTrader: (3)

I made 486hp 408tq on the first dyno of the year @ 26lbs boost. I had my fuel pump jumper for 1/2 speed so at the top end I was loosing fuel pressure. I wired the pump to my adaptronic 440 Ecu so that at 3lbs boost the pump would go from 1/2 to full. We attempted to redyno the car again but the place I had went to was not able to produce the boost I could on the street for some reason. So in the video I am not sure what my hp is... we assume over 500... So that is why I am going back on the dyno on the 4th to hopefully get an official number.

GrossPolluter

iTrader: (1)

what fuel are you planning on running? shawnm565 mod list says e85, I would set your goals with the fuel your going to use. I would find out how much power that fuel pump is good to. And remember if you run e85, you need even more fuel to hit that hp. 450whp I would consider changing all the fuel line on the pressure side to -6, and you will probably want bigger primary injectors . Basically I'm saying fuel, fuel, fuel!

Vicoor

Ditto on that!
If you are wanting headroom you'll need to address the fuel supply.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

I'm coming to terms with the fact that I'll likely need to upgrade primaries but we'll see. Honestly, I want to run pump gas (93 here in TX) for the most part but dump some race fuel in on occasion. I really can't anything over 93 except at local race tracks. Sure E85 is able to make great power but I drive my RX7 a lot (10k miles last year ) and I want to be able to enjoy it without worrying about where my next tank is coming from.

But I may have just answered my own question then. Nearing 450 I'll have to be running more than 93 so maybe the 7670 is a better option? What else is out there that I should be considering? Anything from the GTX line or similar?

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

An ecu that supports flex fuel allows one to use both fuels(pump gas and e85). 7670 will hard stretched to make 450rwhp.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

Turblown, what's the RPM difference in spool for the 7670 and the 8374? Is it a huge difference?

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

If you want something in the 450-500 range, the efr7670 is probably too small a turbo. The EFR8374 is what you want.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

^That's what I'm thinking.

Also, since we're on the topic of e85 and flex fuel ECUs. What all needs to be replaced with regards to fuel lines and such to ensure it doesn't rot out? I know the older fuel systems weren't built for it.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

the 7670 is not appropriate for your 450/500 power objective.

7670

at 14.7 psi boost max (rotary rw) power 354
at 20 psi 392
at max output (41 psi) 471

8374

at 14.7 psi 459
at 20 psi 527
at 40 psi 580

the 7670 is a small (but very efficient and well designed) turbo

compressor wheel has 5.5 sq inches average area, compares to GT35 at 6.38...

the 8374 has a 6.6 sq inch compressor and is a mid range power turbo.

given your objective of 500 hp you are looking for a mid size turbo.

two other options (both BW) are the

S300 63 (P/N 177283) inexpensive, excellent with a rotary friendly hotside

S300 64 FMW same size but w a stronger more efficient billet compressor wheel and upgraded bearing assembly, slightly more $ but significantly less exp than the 8374

as to spool... there are a million factors BESIDES the turbo that influence spool significantly. i find FD owners that are contemplating going single worry about losing midrange power. a properly engineered single makes so much midrange power that your primary concern will be finding any traction in the midrange.

for instance, my 2013 setup w a larger GT4094r (8.1 sq inch compressor) made over 400 SAE rwhp at 5000 rpm! a great deal of the reason for good midrange relates to factors other than the turbo.

my recommendation to you is if you have the $ go for the EFR 8374 as it is a clean sheet of paper high performance turbo. if you are more budget minded either of the other turbos will make you a very happy camper.

good luck,

howard

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

Wow, thank you for the extremely detailed response Howard. I've read a number of your posts and you definitely take a lot of time to give a proper explanation.

I'm aware that spool is related to a lot of things but I think there are still a few generalizations we can make when comparing two turbos on a similar/equal setup. I'm just trying to get an idea of what midrange power band I'd be giving up by going with a larger setup. But I agree with you, my current stock twins are already enough to render first gear useless even with 275s on the rear.

I'm not opposed to the idea of the 8374 (in fact I think it's in the lead right now for me). I'm very interested in the flex fuel ECUs though. Does that change the tune on the fly depending on what's in the tank? Meaning, I roll up to the gas station with an almost empty tank of 93 and the engine has been making let's say 350whp and then I fill it up with E85. Is the ECU smart enough to up the boost and change the map such that when I drive away it starts making 400+ or whatever the E85 tune is?

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I will have some data by end of this year beginning of next year. I will be tuning or at the minimum riding in the following cars that are all local here to COS (6300FT above sea level).

I own a GT3574R, I am tuning very soon a GT3574, One guy is running a S300? or S360. Speedjunkie runs the EFR 7670, Jason is swapping to a EFR 8374. We have all the turbo's you are contemplating....the only thing is we need to tune all these cars and get everything installed which is happening right now.

My GT3574R spools fine, has power everywhere, and does great. I can cruise without much boost, get good MPG, and its got good midrange power and top end.

the EFR7670 is a low end to mid range powerhouse, spools like a beast, runs ***** out fast, might give a little up top but man does it get there fast for an awesome street car. The downside is you are boosting some in low rpms when cruising, eats a little more fuel, but you can boost like made cruising in 5th gear to pass someone.

I will get you more info on the others as I ride or tune them.

GrossPolluter

iTrader: (1)

I don't think any ecu will recognize a fuel without you telling it even though it has a small learning curve. You would have a completely different map for the 2 fuels.

don3vor

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LOOKatme i have a question, at what rpm does the 7670 runout of steam 7K ? And also the 8374 thanks

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Running out of steam is based off of many variables.

I don't think anyone on this forum has dyno tuned a 7670( if so no one is sharing so far).

In theory it should start fading around 6500rpms just like the GT35R.

It should also " spool " around 400rpms faster than the 8374.

We have sent a ton more 8374 kits out and I know of at least 3 that are very close to be tuned. We've got one more engine build to finish and I will be tuning a 7670 to 20+psi on E85. I've attached a picture of another 8374 kit that is being I will be tuning by the end of next month if all goes to plan...

We are also wrapping up another 7670 IWG kit( and 2 EWG kits also).

In addition we are delivering a few more 9180 EWG kits too...

I intend to do back to back dyno tests this winter with our latest shop car addition for both IWG VS EWG, long vs short runner and 7670 vs 8374 vs 9180, low and high boost etc...

don3vor

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply turblown! Ill keep an eye out for your thread, cant wait to see what you guys find

Spalato

iTrader: (32)

Agreed! Can't wait to see some comparison results!

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Just drove the EFR 7670 in my FC the first time today, should get it tuned this week- though it will be lower Dyno Dynamics #s.

I might be able to get Dynojet #s on the 6th when a dyno rolls into town for the diesel guys.

I am running ~12psi now off wastegates and it hits full boost ~2,600rpm rolling on in 5th.

Its like 1-2psi @ 1,500rpm, 3-4psi @ 2,000rpm, 8psi @ 2,250rpm with a little wastegate noise and 12psi @ 2,600rpm.

Might get better with tuning as I wasn't seeing as much boost below 3,000rpm with my old turbo.

Its not as snappy as my FDs stock sequential twins, but its really good for a single turbo.

It feels like it will be a solid 350rwhp turbo on the rotary with the *possibility* of stretching it to 400rwhp.

Basically the same as stock twins, with more simplicity, less power 1,000-2,000rpm and the ability to run higher boost (but not really make more power so what does that matter really?).

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

and the ability to run higher boost (but not really make more power so what does that matter really?)

Actually, running higher boost should yield more low end to midrange power than the twins can muster- so it might be good for something. We shall see.

Spalato

iTrader: (32)

Great photos BLUE TII and thx for the info, keep us updated!