Finally Going Single!
02-24-10, 11:51 PM
#1
Finally Going Single!
Well, after 2 years of downtime, since I lost an Apex seal, and saving a lot of money, I'm going single and giving the car a complete work-over! I'll try to keep this post up to date with pics as best as I can. I'm in the process of pulling the motor right now and hope to have it shipped off next week to Pineapple Racing.
Here's my parts list:
Power FC
Pineapple Racing Mild Street Port W/Stage 3 Oil Mods.
GT4088 Turbo kit
Synapse 50mm Wastegate
CJ Motorsports Dual Walbro Fuel Pump Assy.
Sakebomb Dual Oil Cooler 25 Row Track Kit
AEM Water/Meth injection
AEM UEGO Wideband A/F Sensor
M-Spec Style Front Mount Intercooler
850CC Primaries
1680CC Secondaries
HKS Twin Power Ignition
Apexi Grounding System
GM 3 Bar Map Sensor
Greddy Elbow
Greddy Type RS BOV
Shine Auto Project Sanai Wide Fenders, side skirts, bumper, & rear add-ons
Full Paint (including Engine Bay)
99 Spec Tail Lights
I can't wait to have it all finished so that I can drive it again. I am also very interested to see what Steve Kan can do for me when we put it on the dyno. My plans are to tune the Power FC with one map at Max HP and another with a more conservative 400-450 HP for daily driving.
Stay Tuned for more...
Here's my parts list:
Power FC
Pineapple Racing Mild Street Port W/Stage 3 Oil Mods.
GT4088 Turbo kit
Synapse 50mm Wastegate
CJ Motorsports Dual Walbro Fuel Pump Assy.
Sakebomb Dual Oil Cooler 25 Row Track Kit
AEM Water/Meth injection
AEM UEGO Wideband A/F Sensor
M-Spec Style Front Mount Intercooler
850CC Primaries
1680CC Secondaries
HKS Twin Power Ignition
Apexi Grounding System
GM 3 Bar Map Sensor
Greddy Elbow
Greddy Type RS BOV
Shine Auto Project Sanai Wide Fenders, side skirts, bumper, & rear add-ons
Full Paint (including Engine Bay)
99 Spec Tail Lights
I can't wait to have it all finished so that I can drive it again. I am also very interested to see what Steve Kan can do for me when we put it on the dyno. My plans are to tune the Power FC with one map at Max HP and another with a more conservative 400-450 HP for daily driving.
Stay Tuned for more...
02-26-10, 08:37 AM
#4
I have had some people ask me questions as to why I chose this turbo and to be honest, when I called up Jason at the RX7 store to order a GT40R, he recommended that I should go with the GT4088. Originally I wanted the GT40R because I have heard good things about it, it makes good numbers, and is dual BB so I figured that would help it spool quicker for a larger turbo.
Now, I am not an expert with turbos and have never tried to pretend I was, but I'm no idiot either. I've been working on my own car (and other poeples) since I was 15, as well as being a AGE Mechanic in the Air Force and then a heavy equip. mechanic after that. I am pretty knowledgable when it comes to turning wrenches but I was never exposed to a turbo until I bought my 3rd gen.
According to Jason, the GT4088 spools almost identically to the GT40R even though it in non BB. It also makes higher HP numbers and costs $700 less. So, it sounds like a win, win situation for me. Jason has never steered me wrong in the past 8 years I've been ordering parts from him, so I do trust him, and his advice, but these recent questions have me second guessing the GT4088. I can't imagine that he would talk me into a turbo that is not as good as the one I was going to buy when it costs $700 less (so they're making less money) unless it was something I was going to be happy with.
I would appreciate anyone's advice on this turbo, ESPECIALLY someone who has had first-hand experience with a GT4088. I'm spending a lot of money on this project and if I'm disappointed with the performance I will be a very unhappy camper. So if that is you, or someone you know, please chime in!
My goals here is to make 550-650 RWHP and then detune it for daily driving to somewhere around 400-450.
Now, I am not an expert with turbos and have never tried to pretend I was, but I'm no idiot either. I've been working on my own car (and other poeples) since I was 15, as well as being a AGE Mechanic in the Air Force and then a heavy equip. mechanic after that. I am pretty knowledgable when it comes to turning wrenches but I was never exposed to a turbo until I bought my 3rd gen.
According to Jason, the GT4088 spools almost identically to the GT40R even though it in non BB. It also makes higher HP numbers and costs $700 less. So, it sounds like a win, win situation for me. Jason has never steered me wrong in the past 8 years I've been ordering parts from him, so I do trust him, and his advice, but these recent questions have me second guessing the GT4088. I can't imagine that he would talk me into a turbo that is not as good as the one I was going to buy when it costs $700 less (so they're making less money) unless it was something I was going to be happy with.
I would appreciate anyone's advice on this turbo, ESPECIALLY someone who has had first-hand experience with a GT4088. I'm spending a lot of money on this project and if I'm disappointed with the performance I will be a very unhappy camper. So if that is you, or someone you know, please chime in!
My goals here is to make 550-650 RWHP and then detune it for daily driving to somewhere around 400-450.
02-26-10, 09:35 AM
#5
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Well I dont know anything about that turbo but what your saying about him making less money on the deal makes sense to me. Ive heard a lot of people speak highly of Jason so I dont think he is steering you wrong. Good luck on the build. Cant wait to hear how it turns out.
02-26-10, 11:10 AM
#6
4th string e-armchair QB
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A GT40R is just a series of turbo from garrett, within it are the GT4088R and GT4094R, both ball-bearing. A GT4088 is just a journal-bearing version of the 4088R. Now,
a GT4088 will never make 650 whp on a rotary, it maxes out at ~68 lbs/min, which would be good for slightly more than 500 whp depending on tune, setup, etc. You'd be better suited with something larger, a GT4094 (whether it be the R - ball bearing - or not) will be the smallest Garrett turbo to get you near your power goals, and even it will likely struggle to pump out 650 whp.
The difference between 550whp and 650whp is also huge. You will need more than 850/1600's to get 650 whp.
a GT4088 will never make 650 whp on a rotary, it maxes out at ~68 lbs/min, which would be good for slightly more than 500 whp depending on tune, setup, etc. You'd be better suited with something larger, a GT4094 (whether it be the R - ball bearing - or not) will be the smallest Garrett turbo to get you near your power goals, and even it will likely struggle to pump out 650 whp.
The difference between 550whp and 650whp is also huge. You will need more than 850/1600's to get 650 whp.
02-26-10, 11:54 AM
#7
Yea the 4088 wont make more than the 40R. If you are shooting for more than 550HP you will need to go with a larger turbo. We have done 530HP on the 4088 so Im not sure if I asked what your goal was.
If you are going for more than that then its going to change some things, like the fuel system.
Jason
If you are going for more than that then its going to change some things, like the fuel system.
Jason
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02-26-10, 12:48 PM
#8
If you're looking for 550-650whp that will change things significantly from 400-450. As Trots stated the difference between 550 and 650 is huge same goes for 450 to 550. We've ran 40R's 4088's 4094's here and asking 650 out of any of those is asking for high pressure ratios. You would be better suited to look into a 4294 at that point and deal with the somewhat drag oriented setup. If your focus is between 400-450whp daily driven look into 35R's, 3574R's, 62/65's, or 67mm(TO4R/Z, 500R, 67/65's) those are from smallest to largest for those power goals.
Building a solid 650whp rotary is nowhere near the same as building a solid 400whp one.
~S~
Building a solid 650whp rotary is nowhere near the same as building a solid 400whp one.
~S~
02-26-10, 01:06 PM
#9
Jason,
My original goal was for 400-450 HP but after talking to you when you recommended the GT4088 I looked at it on the website and it states "Largest trim available in GT40 family capable of making a healthy 700+ HP setup." That's when my plans changed a little and I thought it would be nice to have 600 or so but then detune the motor back down to the 400-450 that I would like to have available on a daily basis.
It sounds like I need to go with the GT35R instead of the GT4088... but will it get me comfortably to 450?
My original goal was for 400-450 HP but after talking to you when you recommended the GT4088 I looked at it on the website and it states "Largest trim available in GT40 family capable of making a healthy 700+ HP setup." That's when my plans changed a little and I thought it would be nice to have 600 or so but then detune the motor back down to the 400-450 that I would like to have available on a daily basis.
It sounds like I need to go with the GT35R instead of the GT4088... but will it get me comfortably to 450?
02-26-10, 01:55 PM
#11
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Rated horsepower for turbos does not apply to rotaries, read this: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/how-size-matters-compressor-map-illiterate-zero-r-472529/
02-26-10, 05:44 PM
#16
i was advised by an old engineer from garret to go 40r as opposed to the t04z. i wanted the t04z originally but it is an older turbo and much more complicated(expensive) to rebuild if there's ever a problem. i am however no turbo and it almost running so i'll let you know what it does.
02-28-10, 08:26 PM
#17
Hey Brian,
Good to see you going on that again. Erie must be outside emissions for the front range (I'm not). Let me know if you need a hand.
Are you going to keep it black? Who will you have paint it? I'm looking for someone to paint my new front bumper, but all I can find seems really expensive.
Good luck - that's a lot of power!
Good to see you going on that again. Erie must be outside emissions for the front range (I'm not). Let me know if you need a hand.
Are you going to keep it black? Who will you have paint it? I'm looking for someone to paint my new front bumper, but all I can find seems really expensive.
Good luck - that's a lot of power!
03-01-10, 07:32 AM
#18
Yeah, the Weld County portion of Erie doesn't have any emissions so I'm pretty lucky there. If you want your bumper brilliant black, bring it on up. I'm sure they'll give you a good price if they can shoot it at the same time that they paint my car.
03-03-10, 07:47 AM
#23
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
"As Trots stated the difference between 550 and 650 is huge same goes for 450 to 550."
"I looked at it on the website and it states "Largest trim available in GT40 family capable of making a healthy 700+ HP setup."
"It sounds like I need to go with the GT35R instead of the GT4088... but will it get me comfortably to 450?"
you are heading down the wrong path if you go w a 67 MM turbo (TO4Z, GT500 PTE67 etc)
these turbos produce 73 pounds of air per minute. that equates to 550 rear wheel rotary hp. as zero r states there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between 450 and 550. BIG COST, Lots of different mods and relatively weaker midrange.
you indicate you want 400-450 which, BTW, is a really nice sweet spot for the rotary assuming you have the correct supporting mods.
the GT35 series of turbo would work perfectly for 400-450. they flow 63 pounds per minute which produces 470 tops hp. so you can run it slightly less than flat out and have everything you want as far as hp while enjoying alot of midrange too.
there are a number of 63 pound turbos, for instance a journal bearing GT35 w a larger turbine that reduces backpressure/heat. cheaper, rebuildable and engine friendly.
as you look at websites and see turbo hp levels pls remember you need to divide the number by 1.3 to get ROTARY hp. i e, a "700" hp turbo produces 700/1.3 538 rotary.
going single involves alot of decisions. make all the right ones and you'll be very happy w the move.
good luck,
howard
i am late to this thread but felt i still had to add my view due to the fog here........
"I looked at it on the website and it states "Largest trim available in GT40 family capable of making a healthy 700+ HP setup."
"It sounds like I need to go with the GT35R instead of the GT4088... but will it get me comfortably to 450?"
you are heading down the wrong path if you go w a 67 MM turbo (TO4Z, GT500 PTE67 etc)
these turbos produce 73 pounds of air per minute. that equates to 550 rear wheel rotary hp. as zero r states there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between 450 and 550. BIG COST, Lots of different mods and relatively weaker midrange.
you indicate you want 400-450 which, BTW, is a really nice sweet spot for the rotary assuming you have the correct supporting mods.
the GT35 series of turbo would work perfectly for 400-450. they flow 63 pounds per minute which produces 470 tops hp. so you can run it slightly less than flat out and have everything you want as far as hp while enjoying alot of midrange too.
there are a number of 63 pound turbos, for instance a journal bearing GT35 w a larger turbine that reduces backpressure/heat. cheaper, rebuildable and engine friendly.
as you look at websites and see turbo hp levels pls remember you need to divide the number by 1.3 to get ROTARY hp. i e, a "700" hp turbo produces 700/1.3 538 rotary.
going single involves alot of decisions. make all the right ones and you'll be very happy w the move.
good luck,
howard
i am late to this thread but felt i still had to add my view due to the fog here........
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 03-03-10 at 07:52 AM.
03-08-10, 08:14 PM
#25
All cleaned up and ready for paint.
Well the motor made it to Pineapple Racing today, and the engine bay has been gutted cleaned. Also, the bumper, sideskirts, and rear-addons are supposed to be delivered tomorrow so I can get them fitted. If all goes well I should be able to get it off to paint in the next couple of days.