EFR internal wastegate turbos
02-06-14, 12:10 PM
#37
Here is the FD version in the works; 7670 IWG EFR.
02-07-14, 03:15 PM
#38
It will be real interesting to see how you go, it seems to be pretty much uncharted territory. I was considering running one, but it was going to be a (mostly) low boost application so the lack of precedent scared me off. Iv since gone with one of your tdx61 units and twin gates instead since its more of a known quantity.
Last edited by WANKfactor; 02-07-14 at 03:18 PM.
02-28-14, 02:25 PM
#39
Final manifold design is done for the FD chassis. I was able to get the 8374 IWG to fit, even with an Xcessive LIM. We have a few forum members stepping up to the plate, and if all goes to plan will have low, and high( 30+psi) dyno plots within 3 weeks. I will be personally tuning the high boost one on a car that is already sorted out, just needs this put in...
can't wait for the 7670 low boost dyno results!!!
03-21-14, 02:20 PM
#43
Looking forward to the results. I've been trying to decide on the turbo setup for my build. Leaning toward the BW 8374, but wasnt sure weather to go with dual wg, or iwg.
It may be a stupid question but would there be any issue running the apexi avcr with the BW efr iwg?
It may be a stupid question but would there be any issue running the apexi avcr with the BW efr iwg?
10-12-16, 04:22 PM
#45
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I'm still building this turbo set up but thought this might help at least with fitment questions, I'm running the EFR 7064 IWG'ed with EFR 8374 wastegate bracket on a Full Race manifold (custom made, they used my car as the test bed for the manifold) so if you have any questions just ask.
They also released the 7163 since which seems to be a better 7064 in every way. Much faster spool up, same peak output, AND better top end.
10-12-16, 11:03 PM
#47
I think an EFR 7163 would be an amazing turbo for the rotary in the 250-300rwhp range and could be pushed to 350rwhp+.
The TII stock hybrid combination of stock 63mm exhaust wheels and 55/70mm V-trim compressor has shown itself to be great turbo and the mixed flow 63mm EFR exhaust wheel should flow more than the stock exhaust wheel.
It would be a real stump puller with the right set-up.
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I agree the 7163 is too small for the power I want out of a rotary.
I bought two of them used off an Indy race car ($650ea) and will try to adapt them in sequential twin turbo format on my FD.
When I get it tuned I will do pulls on just the primary so I can tune it for safety and we can see what an EFR 7163 will do on the rotary.
So just hang on for 2-5 years and I will get you some results.
The TII stock hybrid combination of stock 63mm exhaust wheels and 55/70mm V-trim compressor has shown itself to be great turbo and the mixed flow 63mm EFR exhaust wheel should flow more than the stock exhaust wheel.
It would be a real stump puller with the right set-up.
--------
I agree the 7163 is too small for the power I want out of a rotary.
I bought two of them used off an Indy race car ($650ea) and will try to adapt them in sequential twin turbo format on my FD.
When I get it tuned I will do pulls on just the primary so I can tune it for safety and we can see what an EFR 7163 will do on the rotary.
So just hang on for 2-5 years and I will get you some results.
10-13-16, 07:05 AM
#48
I think an EFR 7163 would be an amazing turbo for the rotary in the 250-300rwhp range and could be pushed to 350rwhp+.
The TII stock hybrid combination of stock 63mm exhaust wheels and 55/70mm V-trim compressor has shown itself to be great turbo and the mixed flow 63mm EFR exhaust wheel should flow more than the stock exhaust wheel.
It would be a real stump puller with the right set-up.
--------
I agree the 7163 is too small for the power I want out of a rotary.
I bought two of them used off an Indy race car ($650ea) and will try to adapt them in sequential twin turbo format on my FD.
When I get it tuned I will do pulls on just the primary so I can tune it for safety and we can see what an EFR 7163 will do on the rotary.
So just hang on for 2-5 years and I will get you some results.
The TII stock hybrid combination of stock 63mm exhaust wheels and 55/70mm V-trim compressor has shown itself to be great turbo and the mixed flow 63mm EFR exhaust wheel should flow more than the stock exhaust wheel.
It would be a real stump puller with the right set-up.
--------
I agree the 7163 is too small for the power I want out of a rotary.
I bought two of them used off an Indy race car ($650ea) and will try to adapt them in sequential twin turbo format on my FD.
When I get it tuned I will do pulls on just the primary so I can tune it for safety and we can see what an EFR 7163 will do on the rotary.
So just hang on for 2-5 years and I will get you some results.
10-13-16, 10:57 AM
#49
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You are missing that the person I quoted is using a custom 7064 with a 8374 turbine and housing with IWG.
Anyway, the compressor side of the 7163 is just right for a rotary, and outputs about double or more what the stock twins do from 2000rpm all the way up until redline.
The problem is you'd need massive wastegates and the IWG is way, way too small and restricting.
The 7163 also has that very different turbine wheel that spools up at lower flow while still working well at high flow, so obviously a lot of that is lost if you put the 8374 side compressor on it.
The 7163 seems like the best turbo if what someone wants is stock, but better. Which is what I want. It's a single, simple turbo that's better than the stock twins except that it's too restrictive since the turbine side isn't made for a rotary.
I agree the 7163 is too small for the power I want out of a rotary.
I bought two of them used off an Indy race car ($650ea) and will try to adapt them in sequential twin turbo format on my FD.
When I get it tuned I will do pulls on just the primary so I can tune it for safety and we can see what an EFR 7163 will do on the rotary.
So just hang on for 2-5 years and I will get you some results.
I bought two of them used off an Indy race car ($650ea) and will try to adapt them in sequential twin turbo format on my FD.
When I get it tuned I will do pulls on just the primary so I can tune it for safety and we can see what an EFR 7163 will do on the rotary.
So just hang on for 2-5 years and I will get you some results.
But it does look like the 7163 would be good for close to 400whp in a rotary, while it could still probably provide around 200lb-ft (crank) at 2000rpm. It actually looks to me like the 7163 puts more air at a lower psi than the 7670, and at a higher efficiency range... Maybe someone can correct me. Maybe I'm reading the compression maps wrong and guessing inputs wrong, but it really looks that way.
But I'd hate to think people using the 7670 over the 7163 are making a mistake and that I somehow know better. So I must be missing something other than the need for external wastegates.
If you sequential them.. boy that's going to be a ton of power. A single one is already more power than I'm looking for, myself! But I'm not sure if it's what I'll go with, because the restriction issues.
edit: Wait, isn't the turbine housing on the 7670 exactly the same size as the 8374? Why does it seem like people get worse exhaust flow at high RPMs from the 7670, then? The turbine wheel is 4mm larger, but that shouldn't matter much.
But https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...st-one-869614/ lists the surface area for the 8374 hot side as being about 19% larger.
Last edited by zaque; 10-13-16 at 01:59 PM.
10-13-16, 12:51 PM
#50
A small turbo exhaust side chokes a rotary out in the high rpms even if you are bypassing exhaust flow through the wastegate.
Why?
Because the engine still has to drive the turbo compressor through the exhaust side of the turbo or compressor speed will drop and boost will drop.
This is why Exhaust Manifold Pressure increases even with wastegates open.
The engine still has to push exhaust through the restrictive turbo to maintain compressor speed.
Yes, exhaust will go out the wastegate easier than the restrictive turbo, but then boost will drop and the wastegates will close so the engine has to push more exhaust through the restrictive turbo to power the compressor back up to speed to maintain boost.
If you don't have the wastegate(s) close as boost drops (like on my EFR 7670 where the high priority dual 44mm wastegates were kept open by exhaust pressure/flow pushing on the poppet valves) boost drops since the engine cannot force enough exhaust through the turbo.
So, with a small exhaust side turbo you either get high rpm torque drop from high EMP (small or low priority EG) or high rpm torque drop from lower boost pressure (large open high priority WG).
Through maxing out factory turbos it has been found that there is more high rpm power to be had dropping boost and keeping EMP lower instead of letting EMP skyrocket even on engines like the 4G63 that do very well with high EMP.
Why?
Because the engine still has to drive the turbo compressor through the exhaust side of the turbo or compressor speed will drop and boost will drop.
This is why Exhaust Manifold Pressure increases even with wastegates open.
The engine still has to push exhaust through the restrictive turbo to maintain compressor speed.
Yes, exhaust will go out the wastegate easier than the restrictive turbo, but then boost will drop and the wastegates will close so the engine has to push more exhaust through the restrictive turbo to power the compressor back up to speed to maintain boost.
If you don't have the wastegate(s) close as boost drops (like on my EFR 7670 where the high priority dual 44mm wastegates were kept open by exhaust pressure/flow pushing on the poppet valves) boost drops since the engine cannot force enough exhaust through the turbo.
So, with a small exhaust side turbo you either get high rpm torque drop from high EMP (small or low priority EG) or high rpm torque drop from lower boost pressure (large open high priority WG).
Through maxing out factory turbos it has been found that there is more high rpm power to be had dropping boost and keeping EMP lower instead of letting EMP skyrocket even on engines like the 4G63 that do very well with high EMP.