Best set up with HKS single TO4E??
11-25-01, 05:35 PM
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Best set up with HKS single TO4E??
About to order the HKS TO4E kit with cast manifold, I couldn't be happy with having to ding the chassis rail with the KKK kits from another vendor, and couldn't get 100% verification the KKK kit would work on a RHD Jap home market car, which mine is.
Anyway, I would like to know what other stuff will make for a happy and reliable set up. I want to use the car for circuit (road race0 work, and want it to stay coola nd happy lap after lap of 2 mile or more circuits on slick tyres.
Only mods so far are a Power FC, no cats, Apexi rear system. No PAS, no A/C, no air pump or delivery valving, all blanked off, no secondary throttle or control. Many suspension mods, more to come, but off topic here.
I was thinking of using the stock fuel pump as a lift pump, making a swirl pot and using a big Bosch external pump to deliver to an adjustable pressure reg.
Need to know about injector sizing, best I/C for track usage, don't want to ruin the water cooling. I am considering having an air to water system made up, the under hood part being in the original arae of the air filter box and the battery, which is now in the passenger compartment. I would then run the water to air heat exchanger as a half height ali rad in front of a stock positioned luidyne or similar. Anyone done this?
What do I do with all the now redundant solenoids? Can i just remove them? What will the Power FC make of no loading from the solenoid coils, will it go limp home or anything?
Anyone got some English instructions for the HKS kit they could post somewhere? I'd like to see what i am into before it arrives.
What about injector rails, stay stock?
Any other tips? Thanks guys.
Anyway, I would like to know what other stuff will make for a happy and reliable set up. I want to use the car for circuit (road race0 work, and want it to stay coola nd happy lap after lap of 2 mile or more circuits on slick tyres.
Only mods so far are a Power FC, no cats, Apexi rear system. No PAS, no A/C, no air pump or delivery valving, all blanked off, no secondary throttle or control. Many suspension mods, more to come, but off topic here.
I was thinking of using the stock fuel pump as a lift pump, making a swirl pot and using a big Bosch external pump to deliver to an adjustable pressure reg.
Need to know about injector sizing, best I/C for track usage, don't want to ruin the water cooling. I am considering having an air to water system made up, the under hood part being in the original arae of the air filter box and the battery, which is now in the passenger compartment. I would then run the water to air heat exchanger as a half height ali rad in front of a stock positioned luidyne or similar. Anyone done this?
What do I do with all the now redundant solenoids? Can i just remove them? What will the Power FC make of no loading from the solenoid coils, will it go limp home or anything?
Anyone got some English instructions for the HKS kit they could post somewhere? I'd like to see what i am into before it arrives.
What about injector rails, stay stock?
Any other tips? Thanks guys.
11-25-01, 07:42 PM
#2
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This is basically the same setup I have and wanted for my wife's car. Take a look at my www button for the mods. As long as you go with a good quality rising rate fuel regulator, the exotic fuel delivery you are talking about would not be necessary - I would believe as there is not a starvation problem with the RX-7 in road-racing environs. The tank pickup seems to work quite well.
I run 660cc pri and 1200 cc sec. This seems plenty of fuel for the motor. They said this was actually a little rich. You can run all the way to 1600cc injectors before you have to mod them.
I would love to see how your suspension is setup or what you are using.
regards
Rick
1993 RX-7
I run 660cc pri and 1200 cc sec. This seems plenty of fuel for the motor. They said this was actually a little rich. You can run all the way to 1600cc injectors before you have to mod them.
I would love to see how your suspension is setup or what you are using.
regards
Rick
1993 RX-7
11-25-01, 08:17 PM
#3
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Hey Chris
In regards to your IC question for road racing.
I had used to have lots of trouble with the front mount IC reducing the cooling ability of the radiator in high ambient temp conditions running 1 bar boost (28 degC and higher). I could only do 2 to 3 laps (3km circuit, high average speed) before my ECU would cut the engine revs due to to high water temperature to stop engine damage.
What I did to resolve the problem was use a water spray system on the IC, this had a two fold benifit, It increased the efficiency of the IC by 10% ! (brought it very near and sometimes over 100%eff), This had the benifit of reducing engine temp due to cooler charge temp, but the greatest advantage was that some of the water mist was carried over to the water radiator and finally evaporated on it causing a temperature drop of around 6 to 7 deg C for the same operating conditions (some of this is due to lower charge temp, & water evaporating on WIC).
I enclosed my IC with areo ducting to ram all air through it (minimal spill over) as well, I spray around 700cc/min of totaly atomised water (mist) through the cooler at full boost.
With this setup you will not have any issue with the water cooler losing performance, If anything you will increase it's efficiency due to the water spray + youre IC temps will be unbelievable.
My car on a 24degC day, after running up to operating temp from cold start (ie no heat soak on IC) Generated the following results.
Ambient temp 24degC
Water temp 85degC
Intercooler outlet temp 21degC
Boost pressure 1BAR (14.5psi)
Accel for 10 seconds at full boost
average speed for test (100mph)
In regards to your IC question for road racing.
I had used to have lots of trouble with the front mount IC reducing the cooling ability of the radiator in high ambient temp conditions running 1 bar boost (28 degC and higher). I could only do 2 to 3 laps (3km circuit, high average speed) before my ECU would cut the engine revs due to to high water temperature to stop engine damage.
What I did to resolve the problem was use a water spray system on the IC, this had a two fold benifit, It increased the efficiency of the IC by 10% ! (brought it very near and sometimes over 100%eff), This had the benifit of reducing engine temp due to cooler charge temp, but the greatest advantage was that some of the water mist was carried over to the water radiator and finally evaporated on it causing a temperature drop of around 6 to 7 deg C for the same operating conditions (some of this is due to lower charge temp, & water evaporating on WIC).
I enclosed my IC with areo ducting to ram all air through it (minimal spill over) as well, I spray around 700cc/min of totaly atomised water (mist) through the cooler at full boost.
With this setup you will not have any issue with the water cooler losing performance, If anything you will increase it's efficiency due to the water spray + youre IC temps will be unbelievable.
My car on a 24degC day, after running up to operating temp from cold start (ie no heat soak on IC) Generated the following results.
Ambient temp 24degC
Water temp 85degC
Intercooler outlet temp 21degC
Boost pressure 1BAR (14.5psi)
Accel for 10 seconds at full boost
average speed for test (100mph)
11-25-01, 10:26 PM
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Peter,
are you using the ECU to control the water mist? I have been experimenting with this on my turbo II. Also what type of pump and mister are you using(window washer spray pump and nozzle or something especially made for this type application)? How much water are you using for a typical 30 minute race? thanks again for the help.
are you using the ECU to control the water mist? I have been experimenting with this on my turbo II. Also what type of pump and mister are you using(window washer spray pump and nozzle or something especially made for this type application)? How much water are you using for a typical 30 minute race? thanks again for the help.
11-26-01, 01:20 AM
#5
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Tims, I am using a Spraying Systems SUE18A air atomising nozzle, you can get these from a farm irrigation supplies store.
The one I got is from Rasch Pty Ltd in Australia (I could not find a web link) Nozzle is around $120 Aus.
It need to be modified to make the water orifice larger to get a greater flow rate, std it will deliver 200ml/min at 20 psi water pressure, I just open up the water tip to around 1mm and this gives me the 700ml/min I use for 1 BAR or 14.5 psi boost.
I run mine manual through a Hobbs pressure switch and turn on my system at 3psi to keep the assit on most of the time. My system is manual it runs of Boost pressure (as the nozzle mixes pressuriesed air and water). So for maximum reliability there are no pumps etc.
My parts list is one 5 lt water tank, one pressure switch, one relay, and one "gas" soleniod (to stop fluid flow of boost) along with the spraying nozzle.
In regards to fluid use on a typical 1.15sec lap of my local track I average about 500cc of water usage. My car is used for lap sprints and as a result I sized the tank for 10 lap sprints.
For 30min usage you would need around 15Lt capacity tank.
This used to be realy popular method in use in Grand Prix cars in 1986 season for qualifying to get over the massive temperature rise in the IC when using 4.5Bar 65PSI (gauge pressure!!!) 5.5Bar Absolute, Some teams were spraying up to 5LT of water per lap during qualifying to get the extra %7 or more engine power it offered. It was outlawed for the 1987 GP season (final season of high boost 4BAR Absolute limit)
The difference is they were spraying non atomised water and hence had to use a lot more water flow as it was not all evaporating they also used alot more becasue of the BOOST !!!!
I have found 700cc/min to be a good figure to (give a substantial) cool a 500bhp 13B application.
The one I got is from Rasch Pty Ltd in Australia (I could not find a web link) Nozzle is around $120 Aus.
It need to be modified to make the water orifice larger to get a greater flow rate, std it will deliver 200ml/min at 20 psi water pressure, I just open up the water tip to around 1mm and this gives me the 700ml/min I use for 1 BAR or 14.5 psi boost.
I run mine manual through a Hobbs pressure switch and turn on my system at 3psi to keep the assit on most of the time. My system is manual it runs of Boost pressure (as the nozzle mixes pressuriesed air and water). So for maximum reliability there are no pumps etc.
My parts list is one 5 lt water tank, one pressure switch, one relay, and one "gas" soleniod (to stop fluid flow of boost) along with the spraying nozzle.
In regards to fluid use on a typical 1.15sec lap of my local track I average about 500cc of water usage. My car is used for lap sprints and as a result I sized the tank for 10 lap sprints.
For 30min usage you would need around 15Lt capacity tank.
This used to be realy popular method in use in Grand Prix cars in 1986 season for qualifying to get over the massive temperature rise in the IC when using 4.5Bar 65PSI (gauge pressure!!!) 5.5Bar Absolute, Some teams were spraying up to 5LT of water per lap during qualifying to get the extra %7 or more engine power it offered. It was outlawed for the 1987 GP season (final season of high boost 4BAR Absolute limit)
The difference is they were spraying non atomised water and hence had to use a lot more water flow as it was not all evaporating they also used alot more becasue of the BOOST !!!!
I have found 700cc/min to be a good figure to (give a substantial) cool a 500bhp 13B application.
11-26-01, 08:49 AM
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so you are using boost pressure from the turbo to pressurize the water tank? I will have to look into a better tank for my application. 15lt is getting kind of large I may need to cycle the sprayer a little. my car is not making nearly the HP yours is but I plan to experiment with this more next season. thanks for the tips
11-30-01, 04:00 AM
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Thanks for the helpful info guys, appreciated. 2 qickies:
Rice Racing, why do you not use the WI as a direct water injection to the plenum, rather than as a spray over the outside of the IC? I am using direct WI and see plenum temps drop at least 18 degrees C.
HKS TO4E, is this a divided manifold and turbo?
Anyone (yeah, right, 3 quickies...:-)) used any of the FEED turbo kits? HKS Japan have no stock on the TO4E kit right now, and if I buy from the US I get hit by poor discounts and a lot of tax shipping to UK, so may have to look at alternatives.
Thanks again
Rice Racing, why do you not use the WI as a direct water injection to the plenum, rather than as a spray over the outside of the IC? I am using direct WI and see plenum temps drop at least 18 degrees C.
HKS TO4E, is this a divided manifold and turbo?
Anyone (yeah, right, 3 quickies...:-)) used any of the FEED turbo kits? HKS Japan have no stock on the TO4E kit right now, and if I buy from the US I get hit by poor discounts and a lot of tax shipping to UK, so may have to look at alternatives.
Thanks again
