hondah8er

What are the specs of the typical 60-1 T4 turbo. I have them as 60mm front wheel (compressor), .70 front cover A/R and then whatever exhaust you decide to go with. Basically I need to know what the front wheel is.

I'm having a turbo built for me to spec.

hondah8er

someone delete on of these threads

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

60-1 specs:

Follow these guidlines for typical rotary 60-1 turbo.

T04B compressor wheel: 2.324" or 59.0296 mm INDUCER DIA. , and 3.00" or 76.2 mm EXDUCER wheel.

Get either a TS04 OR standard T04B compressor housing in a .7 A/R.

Get a WET or also called oil and water center housing.

Get a 360 thrust bearing and dynamic seal.

Go with a P-Trim turbine wheel: 2.544" or 64.6176mm exducer and 2.922" or 74.2188 mm inducer wheel.

As far as the turbine housing....... your gonna need to know how much money you want to spend. Its much better to go fully divided tubular manifold but the cost is HIGH... a typical Stainless manifold made for a FC is anywere from $500-$1600. You can get one meant for a FD for $250 on ebay but it will need a spacer and even then will be close to your lower intake manifold. If you want cheap but works great get a $250 cast non-divided manifold. These are very solid and rarly crack, but top end and spool suffer.

Now that you decided on a manifold pick your tturbine housing........

non divided get a .96 A/R

Divided for good spool and good top end go for a 1.00 A/R divided

For more top end and slightly slower spool up get a 1.15 A/R divided

For ultra quick spool go for a .84 A/R divided, but top end may be hampered (for what its worth 400 rwhp is possible, but every thing must be tuned and work in harmony in your entire system).

MORE TURBO INFO:

A common missconception is compressor trim being wheel diameter, THIS IS FALSE (at least when it comes to Garratt, Turbonetics, Texas turbo, etc. etc. basically any Garratt clone) Trim is a ratio of inducer and exducer wheel diameters NOT exducer diameter. If you got a 60mm wheel you'd be VERY dissapointed, the turbo would be smaller then your stock one and not flow enough for a rotary motor. (the 60-1 would litterally swallow a 60mm wheel, the inducer is near 60mm) There are trim levels for seperate sub family's withen a series family. EXAMPLE: a T04B 60-1 is a 2.34" inducer and 3.00" exducer wheel, a T04E 60 trim is a 2.29" inducer and 2.950" exducer.... more on the subject a T3 60 trim is a 1.83" inducer and 2.367' exducer. The T3 will NOT flow nowere near the to4B or T04E. Also note, even though the T04B and T04E have very close wheel specs, the T04B flows much more, (partly due to the "B" width {b-width is blade highth}).

~Mike..............

hondah8er

is the 60-1 comp wheel 60 mm right? Cuz I asked the builder and he says its a 60 trim wheel and its 60 mm

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

NO,

the guy doesnt know what hes talking about or hes giving you a tiny turbo. A 60-1 (which in rotary turbo talk) is a T04B 60 trim aka: T60, T04B 60 trim, T04B 60-1, T04s, T60-1, 60-1...... different turbo companies give it different names and people on forums confuss names but all in all is the same exact wheel......ALL are Garratt clones..... some companies back cut the wheel so only their backplates and housings will fit and give it different names so theirs seem special, but there NOT. As stated before.... the 60-1 has a 2.324 INCH inducer which works out to be 59.03 mm, very close to 60mm, BUT THATS THE INDUCER DIAMETER....... When turbo people talk about compressor wheel diameter it is usually the EXDUCER or biggest part of the wheel. (i have yet hear someone refer to inducer diameter size to describe a wheel). The 60-1 has a 3.00 INCH EXDUCER which equals 76.2 mm. Make sure this guy is meeting the specs I just gave you........ he SHOULD know exactly what wheel you want simply by saying "T04B 60-1".......... or to be really specific tell him "T04B series 60-1 {or 60 trim} 2.324 inch inducer and 3 inch exducer". If the guy still has no clue be weary about his turbo knowledge. If you loose confidense in the guy hit me up, I'm able to get Garratt turbos at wholesale NEW any style or trim.

As I said before, Trim is NOT I REPEAT NOT wheel diameter neither major nor minor (inducer and exducer) diameters. Trim is a RATIO of BOTH wheel diameters. If anyone says differently, they are WRONG when it comes to Garratt or Garratt clones.

~Mike............

hondah8er

Thanks man that was pretty helpful.

craigny1

Hey Mike,

which garrett turbo do you suggest.
Mainly street driving and some drag racing


Thank you,
Craig K
www.drivinhard.com

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Extremely Good Info.

5 Stars.


Hey Mods, Archive this.

rxrotary2_7

this was a good post.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

Craigny1,

Your going to have to decide on how much money you want to spend and how much power you want. The turbo I just described for hondah8er is a perfect choice for the street / drag / auto X and has been proven time and time again (same turbo I have, but car isnt completely together yet). Some people tolerate bigger turbos with more lag but tune to low hp numbers...why I have no idea. The 60-1 is perfect for 10-18 psi boost and on a stock or large street port remains in the turbos sweet spot. Why people get big turbos and tune low......(basically they make same hp as a 60-1 with more lag) is beyond me.. I think they like to say "I HAVE A HUGE T88"........ don't get me wrong.. some people DO use the potentual of these larger turbos (500 + hp), but for the street a T04B or T04E are perfect. 350-430 hp at the wheels is a hella lot of power and it spools FAST especially with a properly engineered manifold. There are pepole running 11's with this turbo (1fastTII, and many others on a different forum) which will spank most of the fastest cars on the road.

Just a side note, forums (this one inparticular) are GREAT places for info, one can learn a crap load threough the use of them. Read every thing on the subject you want to learn about, take in all the info possible and make your own now educated decisions. Eventually after seeing the same advice over and over and seeing people with experiance go through and use the parts in question you can be confident in YOUR choices. Then share your results and you'll figure out what post are bad advise and or BS.

~Mike..............

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

RacerXtreme7: Please forgive me for being a completely ignorant moron on this question... I was looking to get a T-04B '60 trim' with a P trim exhaust and a 1.15 divided a/r housing (think I worded that right). The engine is a big streetport. Horsepower goal is 425 rwhp at around 15 psi. Do you think this possible? BDC has a 60-1 HiFi on a ported engine. Running 15 psi he hit 425 rwhp. I don't need 25 or 30 psi so there is no point in me using the big monster sized turbos that everyone here likes. I thought this turbo would be realistic for my needs (street driven, some track use) but please correct me if I'm wrong. Several people here say it can't be done with that turbo but then again many people are having a hard time hitting this horsepower number at 15 psi on large turbos due to their efficiency range being higher. Thanks for the good info.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

Rotarygod,

I've been reading your post.. Kudos on the info you been handing out and uber cool intake manifold you made. I personally think its a plausable horse power mark, Im going for 400+ rwhp my self with the same turbo except I'll be running a slightly smaller 1.00 turbine housing. Well, its been done before, but not by many people at all. The 400 rwhp mark on this turbo will probly need to be around 16-18 psi near the edge of its sweet spot. Theoredically it can be done, but in practice most are getting 350-380 @14-18 psi, but most of those people have questionable tuning and most have the log type cast manifolds. BDC did it but didnt he have some sort of water to air intercooler which droppped his intake temps some rediculous amount (68 degrees)? Like I said its a great turbo choice and with every thing in the entire engine system all work and are tuned in harmony 425 hp will happen, at least thats what im shooting for also

~Mike..............

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, BDC was running A/W IC.

Most 60-1 dyno's that I've seen, (be it T04E 60, or T04B 60-1) seem to average around +/- 370hp @15 psi.

Seems pretty damm good for a street-driven FC

I think the 60-1 is at its max efficiency at 10 psi anyways, no?

Maybe the 62-1 is more what you are looking for?

hondah8er

Racer is there a big diff between the 1.00 a/r and 1.15 a/r? My goal is about 340-350rwhp on 10-12 psi. This is on a ported motor.


Didn't BOOSTED7's car make like 340 something at 9psi I think I remember seeing? Or maybe that wasn't at the wheels.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

evil,

I agree, there arent many reaching the 400 mark with either t04e 60 trim nor the t04b 60-1. But I still think its possible given the right combo of parts and tuning. Like you said 370 is a hell of a street car, and for the number junkies who like to boast or use buzz words, its over 400 hp at the fly. Efficiency depends on the flow rate the motor is injesting and bost pressor, and sinse everyone seems to have different porting styles and different manifold designs etc, its hard to say were its peak psi # would be because it would be a different psi for every different engine combo. But seeing dyno results and looking at comprssor maps I'd give it a sweet spot of 10-15 psi. (so happens I will be having 2 boost settings of 10 and 15 psi in my car ). Looking at 62-1 maps, its a good match, but for some reason people on forums and turbonetics (or was it Innovative?) say the 62-1 has efficiency issues. I heard one of the two companies has their own wheel to replace the 62-1 and fits and fills all the pot holes, I don't have any info or know people who actually run these wheels. But, like I said the 62-1 looks great on paper, but practice is always something different. On paper a 60-1 should be able to put down over 500, but we know its not true, but the turbo salesman will tell you it will. (maybe on a ****-on motor it will)

Big differences between the 1.00 and 1.15? I hear not a whole lot, I'm guessing 900 rpm difference in spool. If all you want is 340-350 you can get the .84 for really quick spool, but to leave some room for more power later (eventually you'll turn up the boost..lol) go with the 1.00, its a great compromise in top end and spool.

~Mike...................

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

Just a note (I'm looking at 60-1 map)

Its effeciency ranch withen the 70% range is roughly between 20 to 55 lbs an hour and between 1.55 to 2.2 bar, given thoughs numbers, I stand by the 10-15 psi effeciency range on a staock or street port 13b.

Whats everyones ranges for lbs per hour on a stock or street port 13b anyways for compairing with one another??

~Mike............

hondah8er

Ya I'm just wondering when the 1.15 will spool compared to the 1.00. Anyone else have experience? Or am I worried about not that much?

Another question Racer, if i'm running say 10 psi, will a 1.00 exhaust give me the exact same hp/tq numbers as the 1.15 or will the 1.115 be greater just a little laggier?

hondah8er

Ya I'm just wondering when the 1.15 will spool compared to the 1.00. Anyone else have experience? Or am I worried about not that much?

Another question Racer, if i'm running say 10 psi, will a 1.00 exhaust give me the exact same hp/tq numbers as the 1.15 or will the 1.15 be greater just a little laggier?

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Since my engines run the custom made constant area exhaust sleeves, I'm thinking that my intial 1.15 a/r may be too small. When TURBOSTREETFIGHTER ran these sleeves he had a 20 degree clip on a P trim with a 1.34? divided housing and he still spooled up faster than the stock sleeves on a non clipped P trim on a smaller a/r housing. That was a hell of a run on sentence! The big problem was the heat melting the turbine wheel. His weren't Inconel. If I can get this much flow out the exhaust side then a higher horsepower number should be very feasible. I also have a very nicely flowing custom made intake manifold and a very large intercooler. BDC did use an air/water intercooler (based on the stock T-II intercooler) with an ice tank but he was also using the log style exhaust manifold and stock intake manifold. I'm hoping that doing many other things differently will offset the fact that my intercooler is air/air.

hondah8er

Maybe a mod could sticky this? There seems to be so much talk about what turbo etc etc and especially about the good 'ol 60-1.

This thread could probably answer alot of questions.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

To be more specific concerning "Trims" of turbo chargers. Heres the math involved (its simple).

Trim = (inducer/exducer)2 X100.

In other words, inducer (minor wheel diameter) divided by exducer (major wheel diameter),,,, take that number and square it ( multiply it by its self ) then multiply by 100 gives you Trim.

ex: T04B 60-1:

Inducer = 2.324"

exducer = 3.00"

2.324 / 3.00 = .775 (round all the sixes)

.775 X .775 = .601

.601 X 100 = 60..... 60 Trim...

~Mike.........

More technicle turbo info: https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=210525

chohakai

iTrader: (1)

I pulled a 348 rwhp on a dyno dynamics dyno (equivalent of 380-390 rwhp on a dynoject) with a 60-1 w/ p-trim exhaust, 1.0 divided exhaust housing, std hks cast divided manifold with only 13 PSI. This is with my FD, 3mm streetported motor, with a 3-row Greddy front mount, and a PMS ECU that's decently tuned. Also, the hp curve was still climbing when the dyno operator pulled off at 7500 rpm, so it should've been a bit more.

so 425 rwhp is very doable at 15 psi or so with a similar set up, and a better ECU.

Fred

Rutt

Compressor A/R is determined by dividing the radius of the compressor housing by the smallest diameter of the compressor outlet . Exhaust housing A/R is determined by dividing the radius of the exhaust by the smallest diameter of the exhaust inlet . As the A/R numerically increases so does the housings ability to induce/exduce a specific volume of air. Lag and effective power range will also be affected by A/R changes. Look at the A/R pic below.

formula for determining trim
compressor side
[(minor wheel diameter)x(minor wheel diameter) / (major wheel diameter)x (major wheel diameter)] x 100= compressor wheel trim

exhaust side
[(minor wheel diameter)(minor wheel diameter)/(minor wheel diameter)(minor wheel diameter)] x 100 = turbine wheel trim

T04E 60
[(2.290)(2.290)/(2.950)(2.950)] x 100= trim
(5.2441/8.7025) x 100= trim
.6026 x 100 = trim
60= trim

Ryde _Or_Die

This is some great info guys. What I am looking at though, is this:

http://store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gatot96ar.html

What are the differences(spool up/max HP) from other T04s and the T04S? On the same site it says for a 360 degree thrust bearing to add $75, so I would definitely do that and also says $75 more to make the turbo(wet) so I am thinking of doing that as well. What kind of HP numbers could I expect from that turbo and what RPM for full boost? This would be on a stock port TII for a short time, then a rebuilt and heavily streetported one later on. Thanks.

surfpac

That is the same 60-1 setup my friend has on his TII. He dynoed at 410rwhp at 18psi but he has ported motor, Haltech, MSD ignition, RB turbo back exhaust. You will be happy with that 60-1 setup.