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Ok lets try a different analogy that perhaps some ^^^ may understand better !
So you've been dating girls for years but continue to be screwed over by them again and again do you give up and start dating men because its easier ?
For the simpletons !
Girls = rotor engine
Boys = V8 engine
And yes so what if a 7ltr or whatever Yank V8 makes blah hp and they are cheap to buy and cheap to get good power from and everyone is sticking them in this car and that car .
One of the points i was trying to make was if you feel the need to give up on the rotor and take the easy out for reliable hp why copy every one else why not try something a bit more out of left field ? The 928 and 540 were merely examples i was using to state a point !
As for 928's and 540's being in scrap yards that may be the case in the USA but you dont find many like that over here !
And as for better engineered how many 350 chev engines from early 90's car are running around with over 500,000k's on the clock WITHOUT A REBUILD ????
I have only ever know of 1 aussie built V8 with that many k's on the clock and it smoked bad and burnt about a litre of oil a week !
And for the last time if you wish to do this swap good for you go ahead do it i was simply offering my opinion to the argument , its not something i would do myself but i still like seeing the work people put into there cars regardless of what they are
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969 to go....then I will put a rotary engine back in my RX-7 and give the corvette owner's missing engine back...
Good choice!
I'd be interested in seeing a Piston/Rotor HP runability contest. Same/similar HP engines on engine dyno for a duration of time (until they blow up or let's say 6-10 Hrs) at a heavy load and high RPM see which engine holds up the best.
I've read that some rotaries used to run 1 motor for an entire season of racing and the most piston engines would have to be rebuilt after nearly every race and that the valve train would have excessive wear from running at higher RPM's.
Rotaries are kinda like 2 strokes.. To be competitive with a 250cc 2-stroke dirtbike (rotary) they allow something like 400cc 4-strokes (V8) to compete with them.
I'd be interested in seeing a Piston/Rotor HP runability contest. Same/similar HP engines on engine dyno for a duration of time (until they blow up or let's say 6-10 Hrs) at a heavy load and high RPM see which engine holds up the best.
What would be the point of that? A rotary dosen't have the torque to move a heavy load and a v8 dosen't need to rev to 10,000rpms to make power
You want to have fun, run them both at whatever rpm each engine makes the most HP at and see what lasts longest... I really don't think this would be a good way to prove a point for pro-rotaries though
Ok lets try a different analogy that perhaps some ^^^ may understand better !
So you've been dating girls for years but continue to be screwed over by them again and again do you give up and start dating men because its easier ?
For the simpletons !
Girls = rotor engine
Boys = V8 engine
And yes so what if a 7ltr or whatever Yank V8 makes blah hp and they are cheap to buy and cheap to get good power from and everyone is sticking them in this car and that car .
One of the points i was trying to make was if you feel the need to give up on the rotor and take the easy out for reliable hp why copy every one else why not try something a bit more out of left field ? The 928 and 540 were merely examples i was using to state a point !
As for 928's and 540's being in scrap yards that may be the case in the USA but you dont find many like that over here !
And as for better engineered how many 350 chev engines from early 90's car are running around with over 500,000k's on the clock WITHOUT A REBUILD ????
I have only ever know of 1 aussie built V8 with that many k's on the clock and it smoked bad and burnt about a litre of oil a week !
And for the last time if you wish to do this swap good for you go ahead do it i was simply offering my opinion to the argument , its not something i would do myself but i still like seeing the work people put into there cars regardless of what they are
A better analogy:
Rotary - Girlfriend that is "different". She requires a lot of upkeep, $$$, and disappears when you least expect it.
V8 - A girlfriend that is always there, looks great, doesn't cost a fortune, and doesn't require constant attention to keep happy.
You'll be happy with the rotary until it grenades itself, you'll always be happy with the V8.
Want to try something in left field? http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engi...s-engines.html
The reason people use GM V8s is because they're inexpensive, there are loads of aftermarket parts, they can produce prodigious amounts of power, and they're reliable.
How many rotarys are out there with 250K on them that even run?
These threads are always such fun. Now, since the OP asked why someone dislikes V8's in an Rx7, it leaves a lot of latitude. And, the question wasn't why some LIKED a V8 in an Rx7. It was just why people disliked a V8 in an Rx7. So, with that in mind, I'll just list my top reasons for disliking a V8 in an Rx7.
First, according to Kobi Kobayakawa (aka, "Mr. Rx7") who was responsible for the project and also Brian Long, the author of the Mazda Rx7 book and a good friend of Kobi's and recently a good friend of mine, the Rx7 was built around the rotary engine and they say it is the heart of the Rx7 or as some people on here have said, the soul of the car. I can't argue that many people just don't care about this, but it is important to many of us and that cannot be argued either.
Second, the rotary engine is responsible in large part for the excellent handling of the car. I have often heard people saying that the V8 doesn't weigh much more and that front to rear weight distribution can be engineered to be close to stock. Looking at the real issues determining the handling of the stock, rotary engined car versus the V8 engined car, the front rear weight distribution is only a small part of the reason for the handling. You also have to look at the center of gravity front to rear and what portion of the weight is in the center of the car. A lower CG can be used to improve handling and does with the Rx7's sophisticated suspension. The rotary's size and placement low down and close to the firewall move the center of the mass toward the middle of the car, which allows the car to be so nimble, allowing it to be easily rotated using the throttle and brakes and improving turn in. You could have identical front rear weight distributions with two Rx7's and yet one with the more of the front weight toward the front of the car and more of the rear weight toward the rear of the car will not handle as well as the one with most of the weight in the middle.
Its like a bar that you put weights on... If you put two weights on and push them to the center, one end will weigh as much as the other. If you have one weight at the end of the bar and the other weight at the other end, again, each end will weigh the same as the other. 50-50 weight distribution in both cases.
So, the stock Rx7 has better handling, because more of the total weight is in the center and more of the weight is lower down.
Third, the V8 engine vibrates a fair amount even in its best state. The rotary engine is incredibly smooth at almost any rpm from 0-8,000. I love this smoothness and a V8 cannot ever replicate that.
Those are really my only important reasons, though there are others. I do think the V8 is a nice swap that can be fairly inexpensive, assuming you don't go overboard a la jimlab or others. You CAN spend a fortune on a V8, just like you can on a rotary.
Gordon
__________________
1993 Mazda Rx7 R1 20b NA
1974 Porsche 911
1991 BMW E30 M3 2.5 Evo II
1991 BMW 850i Dinan 6 speed
1974 BMW 2002 Tii
1993 Ducati 900SS 1986 Honda VFR750F 1990 Honda GB500
Ok lets try a different analogy that perhaps some ^^^ may understand better !
So you've been dating girls for years but continue to be screwed over by them again and again do you give up and start dating men because its easier ?
For the simpletons !
Girls = rotor engine
Boys = V8 engine
And yes so what if a 7ltr or whatever Yank V8 makes blah hp and they are cheap to buy and cheap to get good power from and everyone is sticking them in this car and that car .
One of the points i was trying to make was if you feel the need to give up on the rotor and take the easy out for reliable hp why copy every one else why not try something a bit more out of left field ? The 928 and 540 were merely examples i was using to state a point !
As for 928's and 540's being in scrap yards that may be the case in the USA but you dont find many like that over here !
And as for better engineered how many 350 chev engines from early 90's car are running around with over 500,000k's on the clock WITHOUT A REBUILD ????
I have only ever know of 1 aussie built V8 with that many k's on the clock and it smoked bad and burnt about a litre of oil a week !
And for the last time if you wish to do this swap good for you go ahead do it i was simply offering my opinion to the argument , its not something i would do myself but i still like seeing the work people put into there cars regardless of what they are
There are several C5 owners on the corvette forum with 300,000 + miles on the original motors. I'm rocking 122k miles on my 2000 Corvette, 15k of those miles are with a supercharger.
Absolutely no problems whatsoever, 30mpg on the freeway, and enough power to blow 325/25/20 Michelin PS2's off up to 60mph.
This whole Rotary = girl, V8 = boy thing is so laughable. The only way you can say it's that way, is Rotaries and girls are extremely high maintenance, where as boys and V8's aren't. That's all they have in common.
The only gender part you could come up with, is by changing the driver of the car, as that would change the purpose of the car and how it was used. Throw an old person or a female into an Rx7, and it's far more likely to be a grocery getter. Throw a young man behind the wheel of an Rx7, and it's more likely to be used as it was intended. Whether it's V8 or rotary powered, doesn't change the purpose of the car. Look good, haul ass, and a hell of a good time. Both engines accomplish that.
These threads are always such fun. Now, since the OP asked why someone dislikes V8's in an Rx7, it leaves a lot of latitude. And, the question wasn't why some LIKED a V8 in an Rx7. It was just why people disliked a V8 in an Rx7. So, with that in mind, I'll just list my top reasons for disliking a V8 in an Rx7.
First, according to Kobi Kobayakawa (aka, "Mr. Rx7") who was responsible for the project and also Brian Long, the author of the Mazda Rx7 book and a good friend of Kobi's and recently a good friend of mine, the Rx7 was built around the rotary engine and they say it is the heart of the Rx7 or as some people on here have said, the soul of the car. I can't argue that many people just don't care about this, but it is important to many of us and that cannot be argued either.
Second, the rotary engine is responsible in large part for the excellent handling of the car. I have often heard people saying that the V8 doesn't weigh much more and that front to rear weight distribution can be engineered to be close to stock. Looking at the real issues determining the handling of the stock, rotary engined car versus the V8 engined car, the front rear weight distribution is only a small part of the reason for the handling. You also have to look at the center of gravity front to rear and what portion of the weight is in the center of the car. A lower CG can be used to improve handling and does with the Rx7's sophisticated suspension. The rotary's size and placement low down and close to the firewall move the center of the mass toward the middle of the car, which allows the car to be so nimble, allowing it to be easily rotated using the throttle and brakes and improving turn in. You could have identical front rear weight distributions with two Rx7's and yet one with the more of the front weight toward the front of the car and more of the rear weight toward the rear of the car will not handle as well as the one with most of the weight in the middle.
Its like a bar that you put weights on... If you put two weights on and push them to the center, one end will weigh as much as the other. If you have one weight at the end of the bar and the other weight at the other end, again, each end will weigh the same as the other. 50-50 weight distribution in both cases.
So, the stock Rx7 has better handling, because more of the total weight is in the center and more of the weight is lower down.
Third, the V8 engine vibrates a fair amount even in its best state. The rotary engine is incredibly smooth at almost any rpm from 0-8,000. I love this smoothness and a V8 cannot ever replicate that.
Those are really my only important reasons, though there are others. I do think the V8 is a nice swap that can be fairly inexpensive, assuming you don't go overboard a la jimlab or others. You CAN spend a fortune on a V8, just like you can on a rotary.
Gordon
1. some might say this thread has no business in this forum
2. handling capabilities of the car with rotary vs a V8 is a zero sum mod, the only difference you will notice is the tendency to oversteer at low speeds due to the different torque curve of the power plant. it is assinine to argue this point, the rotary engine provides no magic pixie dust to handling. evidence this by all the handling mods we do to rotary powered or v8 powered 7's, the key to maintaining good handling has nothing to do with the rotary engine. No arguement on the soul comment, I still love rotaries.
3. smoothness is a function of the pillow soft isolation mounts that most of us hate in a modified FD, when making big power we put in stiff bushings and guess what, the "smoothness" of the rotary magically goes away. put in soft bushings with a stockish V8 and it's a cremepuff too.
somebody kill this thread
__________________
Ls1 FD
going auto
"never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience ..."
The reason why v8 swaps annoy me is because American v8s are always going into these cars..
I personally hate pushrod engines.. and thats just how im going to always feel about it.
if you're gunna use a v8, and you INSIST on it being a chevy 350, then say hello to the LT5; the only quad cam, 4 valve per cylinder, all aluminum alloy v8 that GM has ever made: it comes with 420 HP completely stock, and is good for the hell of a lot more than that. You will be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't appreciate this engine NO MATTER what car its in.
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fully peripheral ported and drysumped 13b; s475 turbo build thread:
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The more V8 swap's you see the less rotary knowledge we have. All those swap's equal less people trying to perfect and harness the full power of the rotary. It's us, the grassroots of motorsports that comes up with a vast majority of rotary innovation whether due to necessity or just plain want of power.
This just made me laugh! Just some amusement guys! Enjoy.....
I LOVE THE PART WHEN HE SAID SS AND THE GUY WHO DID THIS CAPTION WHENT WITH WHAT HE SAID! GREAT STUFF BUT I SURE DONT AGEE WITH WHAT HE SAID! BUT ITS A GOOD LAUGH NOWING THATS HOW THE PISTON HEADS TALK ABOUT THE ROTARDS WHEN HEY GET SERVED BY A ROTARY LMAO.....ENJOY...
The reason why v8 swaps annoy me is because American v8s are always going into these cars..
I personally hate pushrod engines.. and thats just how im going to always feel about it.
if you're gunna use a v8, and you INSIST on it being a chevy 350, then say hello to the LT5; the only quad cam, 4 valve per cylinder, all aluminum alloy v8 that GM has ever made: it comes with 420 HP completely stock, and is good for the hell of a lot more than that. You will be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't appreciate this engine NO MATTER what car its in.
If you're going to talk about an engine, at least know WTF you're talking about. -facepalms-
The LT5 came with 385hp stock originally. By the end of the ZR-1's run, it was up to 405hp. The motor is extremely stout and well-built, but very complex, very difficult to work on, and quite a bit bigger than it's pushrod brothers. Also, parts are very expensive and hard to come by.
Very impractical. As impractical as a turbo rotary. But I guess that's why you'd like it...
The reason why v8 swaps annoy me is because American v8s are always going into these cars..
I personally hate pushrod engines.. and thats just how im going to always feel about it.
if you're gunna use a v8, and you INSIST on it being a chevy 350, then say hello to the LT5; the only quad cam, 4 valve per cylinder, all aluminum alloy v8 that GM has ever made: it comes with 420 HP completely stock, and is good for the hell of a lot more than that. You will be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't appreciate this engine NO MATTER what car its in.
Its also VERY large and weighs more. The "low technology" pushrod engines are much smaller, lightweight, and more compact!
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1994 VR Base with a stronger soul.
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I really don't give a shit whether you got a geo metro 1.3L engine, rotary, v8, v6, I4, I6, battery powered or whatever...I really could care less what anybody says unless it is beneficial or helpful to ME. But when I see others thinking that their car, job, lifestyle is better than me...I will tell them to "shut the fuck up and fuck off cause nobody cares about you and your life". When I listen or read about others claiming shit and don't have adequate amount of facts, then there is no need to say what you want unless the forum poster wants and opinion. I'm a CAR Enthusiast and will not bash on other peoples cars, cause of a simple fact actually, I love cars in general. I just chuckle at the comments saying, "V8's are better that rotary engine" and that "Rotarys are better than V8's" --cause I don't care.
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Pit Crew for To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ; current WR holders for E/T: 5.746 and MPH: 248.66.
I try to keep up with these threads to see what is wrong with my car. Since the car does shake more than designers ever intended it to, should I be concerned with the car falling apart, glass breaking etc? I did see a video where a fd lost all four wheels, is it possible he had a v8 and it just shook the lug nuts off?
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94 touring, 459rwhp ls2
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This just made me laugh! Just some amusement guys! Enjoy.....
turbo lscrap engine?
Linear Mode
