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I need advise for a friend

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Old Jan 27, 2007 | 11:53 AM
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I need advise for a friend

OK I know this is not rotary stuff but this is the brake forum and I need some advise on brakes for a friend..

my buddy has a 06' Mitsubishi Evolution IX and him and my other friend just did a bunch of stuf to the car and the following

Cryo-treated front and rear powerslot brake rotors
Hawk racing pads front and rear
ATE. Spuer Blue racing brake fluid

now the powerslots say u may experience a low pedal for up to 500 miles of break in.. he has 280 miles and he says it is not un common for the pedal to be VERY LOW but also he needs to at times hit the brakes 2-3 times to get it to stop.... I am curious if this could be a problem with the rotors, brake fluid or the pads or what?

they bleed 1 full can of the super blue brake fluid through the system, it is full, no leaks and seems to be no bubbles. any sugestions?

Tomorrow I am going to re-bleed the system and check everything out. anything I should mention or is it just the break in period on the rotors etc?

btw the way they tell him to break in his brakes (power slot instuction sheet) is CRAZY and all his rotors are blued from doing it. maybe thats a problem?

thx in advance!
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Old Jan 27, 2007 | 04:29 PM
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rynberg's Avatar
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He's running "racing" pads on the street. Enough said.
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Old Jan 27, 2007 | 07:08 PM
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his car is a BIG TIME auto X car, but yes he is running those pads right now.. reason being is because u dont want to slap ANY racing pad on a car right before an event...

anyways I need a REAL answer I dont think it is the pads causing the pedal to go near the floor

Dave
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Old Jan 27, 2007 | 09:38 PM
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Well the racing pad won't grip the rotors, even during autocross. They just never get hot enough to develop the right adhesion. Autocross requires a pad that is fairly close to a street pad in terms of temperature range. Even if your racing pads are properly preheated and bedded into the rotors, they will be slick until they get fully hot again. You can't have good hot brakes if you're sitting still in the autoX grid.

However, the soft pedal suggests you have a hydraulics problem like the master cylinder.

Dave
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 07:03 AM
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I know I told him those pads were no good and suggested a different pad... now c the brake master feeds the brakes AND the clutch so I dont know if the master is bad because the clutch is FINE...

I am wondering if the super blue is causing it

Dave
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 07:14 AM
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Well the superblue can't cause it, but incorrect bleeding procedure can. I doubt it's the master cylinder, and bet its just air in the lines due to improper bleeding.

I suggest using the one method that is sure-fire for bleeding brakes: 2 people. (Or 1 person and a pump at the brake fluid reservoir). Person 1 puts down the brake pedal slow and steady. Person 2 is at a brake caliper ready to open the bleeder. As soon as 1 starts pushing on the pedal, 2 opens the bleeder. Just before 1 reaches the floor with the pedal, 2 shuts off the bleeder. Repeat as necessary, and keep an eye on the brake reservoir to be sure stays full of fluid (usually top off every few pedal pumps). The important thing is to only have the bleeder open *while the brake pedal is under pressure* so that only fluid goes out and air bubbles can't go in.

Dave
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 09:01 AM
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well I never bleed it the first time but that is what I recomended so I hope we can get him over today and if so that is how we are going to do it

thx for your help!
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 11:20 AM
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From: Comstock Park, MI 49321
btw he has Hawk HPS (high performance street) pads
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 11:47 AM
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Hawk HPS really aren't racing pads. They're a little better than stock, which is just right for Autocross.

I think you need to get the brakes bled.

Dave
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 11:54 AM
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Start by bleeding the brakes then bed the pads:

Bedding-in Street Performance Pads

For a typical performance brake system using street-performance pads, a series of ten partial braking events, from 60mph down to 10mph, will typically raise the temperature of the brake components sufficiently to be considered one bed-in set. Each of the ten partial braking events should achieve moderate-to-high deceleration (about 80 to 90% of the deceleration required to lock up the brakes and/or to engage the ABS), and they should be made one after the other, without allowing the brakes to cool in between.

Depending on the make-up of the pad material, the brake friction will seem to gain slightly in performance, and will then lose or fade somewhat by around the fifth stop (also about the time that a friction smell will be detectable in the passenger compartment). This does not indicate that the brakes are bedded-in. This phenomenon is known as a green fade, as it is characteristic of immature or ‘green' pads, in which the resins still need to be driven out of the pad material, at the point where the pads meet the rotors. In this circumstance, the upper temperature limit of the friction material will not yet have been reached.

As when bedding-in any set of brakes, care should be taken regarding the longer stopping distance necessary with incompletely bedded pads. This first set of stops in the bed-in process is only complete when all ten stops have been performed - not before. The system should then be allowed to cool, by driving the vehicle at the highest safe speed for the circumstances, without bringing it to a complete stop with the brakes still applied. After cooling the vehicle, a second set of ten partial braking events should be performed, followed by another cooling exercise. In some situations, a third set is beneficial, but two are normally sufficient.
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 05:52 PM
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yeah it was bleeding that cured it.. I rebleed everything and it worked fine (I did not do the initial bleed this is the first time I touched the car)

however after driving and punshing the brakes for a while the hawk pads did glaze and the pedal did mush a bit then.. I think those pads are just CRAP!!!
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 06:38 PM
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rynberg's Avatar
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Sounds like guys didn't PROPERLY bed the pads in.....
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 06:39 PM
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well he had to properly set the rotors in to.. so they both have tottaly different bed in styles and periods..

Dave
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 08:49 PM
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Follow the bedding procedure for the pads. You may have trouble doing it (safely) on the street, especially with the air temps being so cold.
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Old Jan 28, 2007 | 08:52 PM
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I will tell him and see what he says.. I am trying to have him get some EBC or just street pads... I hate hawk pads
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Old Feb 1, 2007 | 11:02 AM
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Just remember just because there "aftermarket" doesn't mean they are better! Alot of the times you just cant beat factory parts!
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