Old guys with 12As club meeting
07-06-15, 08:38 AM
Stogies!
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Location: Lawrenceville, GA
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Need some ignition system diagnosis help.
My 85 FB has the Ray Green 2nd gen direct fire coil leading ignition system upgrade.
Everything functions fine when I start the car. Over the last several months, I notice that anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes later, the car suddenly looses power. It still runs fine, but has noticably less power. I thought it was carburator related (RB Dellorto) as it seems to happen more as the weather warms. But this weekend, I checked the ignition with my timing light and found that the leading ignition was not working.
So, what does the group think...ignitor or 2-nd gen coil?
As a side note, my son asked what the "photon pistol" on the work bench was. I guess it has been a long time since I had my timing light out.
My 85 FB has the Ray Green 2nd gen direct fire coil leading ignition system upgrade.
Everything functions fine when I start the car. Over the last several months, I notice that anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes later, the car suddenly looses power. It still runs fine, but has noticably less power. I thought it was carburator related (RB Dellorto) as it seems to happen more as the weather warms. But this weekend, I checked the ignition with my timing light and found that the leading ignition was not working.
So, what does the group think...ignitor or 2-nd gen coil?
As a side note, my son asked what the "photon pistol" on the work bench was. I guess it has been a long time since I had my timing light out.
07-06-15, 09:19 AM
Greg if you still have your original coils installed it's a simple matter to reconnect the original ignition system, assuming you still have the extra coil wire.
Run it that way for awhile, if the problem disappears it's your 2nd gen coil pack (which I copied from Mike), if it doesn't disappear it's something else.
If you've lost your extra coil wire, I can bring one to the 7/7 OGTA meeting tomorrow night and we can mess with it.
Run it that way for awhile, if the problem disappears it's your 2nd gen coil pack (which I copied from Mike), if it doesn't disappear it's something else.
If you've lost your extra coil wire, I can bring one to the 7/7 OGTA meeting tomorrow night and we can mess with it.
07-06-15, 10:09 AM
Stogies!
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Ray, I'll have to look for the coil wire. I'm sure I saved it. Finding it may be another story.
The original coil is still there. Also, I did not cut any of the connections, so restoring the system to operation should not be a problem.
One thing I did notice, is that the trailing wires still connected to the distributor are plugged into the Leading positions. Not sure why we did that and part of me is confused that that would screw up the timing of the trailing ignition. Any insights on that would be a big help.
Also, which ignitor is for the leading system? (I hope it is not the one that I have to removed the alternator to get to)
What do ignitors go for?
Are they leading/trailing specific?
I probably won't be able to make the meet tomorrow. We have family coming in for a wedding next weekend and the wife is on full alert.
The original coil is still there. Also, I did not cut any of the connections, so restoring the system to operation should not be a problem.
One thing I did notice, is that the trailing wires still connected to the distributor are plugged into the Leading positions. Not sure why we did that and part of me is confused that that would screw up the timing of the trailing ignition. Any insights on that would be a big help.
Also, which ignitor is for the leading system? (I hope it is not the one that I have to removed the alternator to get to)
What do ignitors go for?
Are they leading/trailing specific?
I probably won't be able to make the meet tomorrow. We have family coming in for a wedding next weekend and the wife is on full alert.
Last edited by GKW; 07-06-15 at 10:11 AM.
07-06-15, 10:29 AM
Waffles - hmmm good
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Greg, if you get the stock ignition hooked up and it still runs poorly once its warmed up good, then
its your leading ignitor. The stock ignitors can't always handle the load of the 2G coil for any length
of time.
If it was me, I would go with some solid state E coils and some GM dr100 ignitors for the ignition.
I've had this setup for a few years now with no issues. See my sig for TFIDFIS for all the details.
Don't even say it Ray.
its your leading ignitor. The stock ignitors can't always handle the load of the 2G coil for any length
of time.
If it was me, I would go with some solid state E coils and some GM dr100 ignitors for the ignition.
I've had this setup for a few years now with no issues. See my sig for TFIDFIS for all the details.
Don't even say it Ray.
07-06-15, 11:48 AM
life's a drag*)
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Sa guys, I need some assistance. I had someone offer a radiator "in good shape" for $75 for the S2. It appears their idea of "good shape" and mine differs. So I was debating on a eBay rad for the time being until a better one can be sourced. Anyone tried any of these before? They are about $150 instead of the stock OEM one running about $225. I plan on ordering it tomorrow so that I can get it in asap since hers is now beginning to split.
If you go the aluminum eBay way just make sore it had places to mount the oil cooler.
07-06-15, 03:04 PM
Greg the Younger, another Slick Trick, suggested to me by Felix himself a long time ago:
Switch the Igniters. You don't even need to know what they do, just switch them.
And you don't need to take the igniters off the dizzy, just switch the white and blue wiring.
It's easy.
If the problem goes away, you've switched in the good trailing igniter for the leading one that was crapping out when you were out goosing your car.
If the problem is still exactly the same, it's probably not the igniters.
In this case, switching back to the original ignition system should work.
And please note, Mr. Greg, the original ignition system has NO GM parts.
Switch the Igniters. You don't even need to know what they do, just switch them.
And you don't need to take the igniters off the dizzy, just switch the white and blue wiring.
It's easy.
If the problem goes away, you've switched in the good trailing igniter for the leading one that was crapping out when you were out goosing your car.
If the problem is still exactly the same, it's probably not the igniters.
In this case, switching back to the original ignition system should work.
And please note, Mr. Greg, the original ignition system has NO GM parts.
Last edited by ray green; 07-06-15 at 03:12 PM.
07-06-15, 04:51 PM
Update: AZ is a special order item that is on backorder.
http://ebay.us/K7vKnX
Think this one would work?
Last edited by TrianglePower; 07-06-15 at 04:59 PM.
07-07-15, 07:00 AM
Greg The Elder
Greg, if you get the stock ignition hooked up and it still runs poorly once its warmed up good, then
its your leading ignitor. The stock ignitors can't always handle the load of the 2G coil for any length
of time.
If it was me, I would go with some solid state E coils and some GM dr100 ignitors for the ignition.
I've had this setup for a few years now with no issues. See my sig for TFIDFIS for all the details.
Don't even say it Ray.
its your leading ignitor. The stock ignitors can't always handle the load of the 2G coil for any length
of time.
If it was me, I would go with some solid state E coils and some GM dr100 ignitors for the ignition.
I've had this setup for a few years now with no issues. See my sig for TFIDFIS for all the details.
Don't even say it Ray.
T.G. where can one find the GM dr100 ignitors? What would one ask for at the parts counter?
Ray, I realize it is blaspheme and I'd rather have all original parts, but if it gets you home...it's good to have spares.
07-07-15, 07:52 AM
Waffles - hmmm good
iTrader: (1)
So heres the deal on the GM ignitors, they can handle higher amps of power, so stronger spark. They
are ubiquitous, and they are easy to wire up. Same holds true for solid state E type coils, no oil,
less prone to heat soak issues, stronger spark. Mine are Ford F150 coils I got at the junkyard.
The GM dr100 are also known as 4 prong GM ignitors and can be found on most late 80s GM v8s.
The 7 prong ones from the 90s can also be used as well. Take a look in my TFIDFIS write up for the details.
Besides, its patriotic to use 'merican parts in these j-tin cars. Don't mind Ray, he's just
being a subversive radical liberal, he can't help it where he works.
are ubiquitous, and they are easy to wire up. Same holds true for solid state E type coils, no oil,
less prone to heat soak issues, stronger spark. Mine are Ford F150 coils I got at the junkyard.
The GM dr100 are also known as 4 prong GM ignitors and can be found on most late 80s GM v8s.
The 7 prong ones from the 90s can also be used as well. Take a look in my TFIDFIS write up for the details.
Besides, its patriotic to use 'merican parts in these j-tin cars. Don't mind Ray, he's just
being a subversive radical liberal, he can't help it where he works.
Last edited by t_g_farrell; 07-07-15 at 07:56 AM.
07-07-15, 01:55 PM
Ill be there as early as whoever wants to show up first lol. Oil change and maybe a wash before I head out.
Did any of the old guys see the eBay link I posted? Ericas car is in Cleveland so I don't have exact measurements on her rad. It APPEARS like that one is marketed specifically for the S2 but I didnt want to have to ghetto it.
Did any of the old guys see the eBay link I posted? Ericas car is in Cleveland so I don't have exact measurements on her rad. It APPEARS like that one is marketed specifically for the S2 but I didnt want to have to ghetto it.
07-07-15, 02:08 PM
1 of 203 94 White PEP's
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Alot of those ebay radiators are kinda a universal fit, they dont have the holes drilled for the mounts and probably lack the mounts for the oil cooler if its on the bottom of the rad.
07-07-15, 02:29 PM
S2 rad will be taller due to the use of the bee hive oil cooler rather than the cooler that hung under the rad. i would guess the mounting holes would be the same. the SE did have the front mount cooler but still retained the tall rad as the cooler was hung from the frame rail in front of the rad, along with longer lines than the earlier ones. sure wish i could help out with actual dimensions.
07-07-15, 02:31 PM
Her 81 has no beehive so that's why I was worried about clearances. If its something I can mount up and fit, I dont have any issue fabricating something.
