SSRat

88 10ae Rtek 2.1, BNR Stage 2-3, S4 stock port, 8.5 rotors, x4 720s, cone filter, fd fuel pump, aeromotive fpr @ 38-40psi, racing beat downpipe + presilencer to catback exhaust, still have all emissions, p/s, a/c, and airpump has on of those little filters on it. (I would like to pass emissions although not really required atm, is this asking too much?) :lol. Innovate LC-2 with display, glowshift boost and fuel pressure gauge, and turbosmart boost tee turned all the way down (i dont think i need this as it seems the rtek can limit boost am i right? Zero out top timing rows to the desired boost level?) (I also believe i can work emissions via tuning a bit)


Yay! I got the car started, sort of. I tried 720/720 and AFRs were reading 22.74, highest the lc-2 reads, and the car struggled to stay running. It would idle up for 2 sec then die. So I checked and sealed any vac leaks, and switched inj settings to 550/720.
It started up better and stayed on, idleing around 1500, and i was able to warm it up, run initial set, but idle adjust at BAC had not much of an effect, the screw is now all the way in and the idle reading on the rtek was still at like 2200-2300 or something, i couldnt really get it to go down. Tachometer stayed at around 1200-1500. I have loaded arghxs moderate timing map, and added the fuel adjustments solareon posted last as the two maps looked similar. All other fuel adjustments are still zeroed out in the lower ranges. I cant post a log just yet, i suppose i could take screenshots, but it looked something like this:
Rpm: 1490-1500ish
AFR: steady high 18-19s
Inj d/c: 5-7%
TPS(NB): 20% steady S4s only have narrowband TPS?
MAP: 17.8inhg
Airflow: .7lbs/min

I may change to new sparkplugs and see if that helpsmsince these ones have gone through the whole "setup", mutiple start attempts, and are probably fouled up, i blew them out and wire brushed them once already. Using stock plugs 7s leading, 9s trailing. Also my AFM is tilted (black top toward the engine) about 45 degrees for cone filter clearance, would this affect things?

I keep having to adjust mah TPS as it seems to move from 20% to 18-19% after each startup. Sometimes it stays in spec (the way i set it is looking at log screen on rtek, pop the ds IC hose and the hose on the (AWS?) thingy, then i can lift the IC up enough to get a long screwdriver in there and adjust it back to 20% on the rtek. Is this ok?)

Also I have the option for no AFM...

I havent started it up since this last log, and its dinner time.

* and for the record, i dont care what innovate support says, the analog wire output voltages are reversed between the lc-1 and lc-2. positapped the white wire on my display to the yellow wire (instead of brown wire as per intructions [which were for LC-1 btw] that i ran to the rtek and now i can log and have the display :-)

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Could be the AFM turned sidways. Could be timing. Could be injector issue. What brand of injectors? Could be intake leak. Check your work.

Car wouldn't run at 22.7 afr.

No option for no AFM on rtek. ???

SSRat

Yeah I can select the box for no AFM, and adjust the VE map, but i didnt fool with them.

So I reset my afm straight, and changed my sparkplugs, the trailing had a lil spot of sludge on em. and the leading smelled of fuel. My TPS went up to 28%! I dialed it down until it read 20% on rtek, and started the car.
AFRs read 8-9 for a sec then went to 14-16, rpm settled to 1460-1500, but my Fuel pressure had gone up to 42 or so.
So i turned it back down to 40.
I started it up again, this time its still reading between 14-16 afr at idle, idle speed at around 1500. But then my TPS started dropping, gradually (about 2 minutes) down to 14% and AFRs slowly creeped up to 18.
The idle didnt change much, stayed between 1400 and 1500. Bad TPS?
I did check the resistance at the back of the plug and the ohms read at 2k, it wouldnt go down to 1, but still swept to 5-6. And when the TPS is set to 20% on the rtek, if i stab the gas pedal it jumps to 92%, i didnt really floor it, but it was "working".
When I go to idle set up, I cant get the idle adjust to go down below 1300 with the screw on the BAC all the way in, i went to the next step for setting Var Res, but wasnt sure what voltage to set it at. It said to set the voltage for max RPM i think.
I have a WB at the Var Res pin.
Ideas, suggestions?

For now I have to check my turbo as its smoking a bit around the oil line connects. could be the paint on the piping, but its smoking white a good bit, and it doesnt smell like oil or coolant. But Im sure a new turbo shouldnt smoke at all, period. I havent gone into boost at all and have only gotten the car up to temp twice. I put it in dry, but but it should be lubricated by now though yeah? Fingers crossed.

SSRat

update
my turbo pipes were still a bit loose, not by much but i guess enough for them to seep. I tightened them down best i could. The inside banjo i hope is tight lol. Also acv had a bolt tightened but not torqued, wierd, im usually pretty ocd about these things. I guess i worry about over torquing. Hopefully no more leaks.

What about the dropping TPS and VarRes voltage?

SSRat

This is awesome! I was able to adjust my maps, had a hiccup with that. Nick_dtii you were right, my timing values were off as i was being generous with the numbers. That .2 or .4 makes a big difference

Idle sits at 1500, but i cant adjust it down past 1300. The BAC screw is all the way in. It sounds great though (no more smoking from the turbo either, woot!), but afrs are at 17-18. if i rev it to 2500 afrs drop to 15 so it may richen itself out. I may try adjusting the BAC screw out and work my way in, see if that will give me a larger idle adjust threshold. Advice? should i add a little fuel to 1500 rpm? do idle afrs matter?
My TPS still drops to 17-16% during warmup, is this normal? I let it get to temp, then reset it to 20%, then i let it run again and it stayed steady.
im nervous to take it out though, it sounds like a monster and i should probably change my brake pads and rotors, new fluid and lines though.. hope the calipers are alright.
This is frekkin sweet!

SpikeDerailed

iTrader: (7)

You say you have the airpump still, that will mess up your AFR readings. Most of the time the acv will dump air from the pump into the exhaust ports before the o2 sensor, that wont fly if youre trying to tune off wide band readings.

SSRat

I get it now, it would show leaner than it is, huh. Great for emissions, then.
I have the stock o2 on my RB downpipe and have my WB further down 36" or so from the turbo. No split air pipe.
I figured it was just sucking in too much air and i just need to up the fuel a tad.
Im also using the corksport turbo inlet, it has a superior flow to the stock rubber "worm".

So is there a way to judge how much the acv is throwing off the readings? unhook the airpump and check wb readings?

My ultimate goal is to pass emissions if need be, via tune or tweaking the afm down the road. Right now i just want to drive it.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

A couple of thoughts mostly because you didnt mention them.

1) You didnt say you'd warmed the engine up fully before setting the TPS. This is critical. You can cheat it by using a heat gun or hair dryer on the plunger until it fully extended.

2) I don't know on the S4 but the S5 you have to ground the ISC before attempting to set idle. We have a JDM S5 Tii so the idle screw on the BAC is just pretend. We use the screw on the throttle body to adjust idle.

3) If you don't know the full history of the car, you may want to consider resetting the throttle body. People like to mess with the adjustment screws and even remove throttle plates. Ours was completely randomized.

We have the 2.1 with a large street port, 720s/1000s, BNR Stage 1, the Corksport TID and exhaust and the Bonez cat with all the emissions enabled and had no issues getting smogged. The car idles at 750 flat at 14.7+-0.2. We haven't bothered with ARGHX's maps because it already puts down more power than the open diff can manage. Once we have the S4 Tii clutch LSD rebuilt and installed, then we'll look at ARGHX's maps.

Good luck. It can be frustrating but it can be done!

SSRat

Hey thanks for the input! I did set the tps after warming up the car, i poked around with it first before ever starting it and thats where it wouldnt sweep back to 1k on the multimeter, it only stayed at 2. Once I warmed the car i was able to get it to set at 1k and sweep correctly to 5, then made sure it was 20% on the rtek, I think i did it right.

If we go into the idle setup mode and check the box for set IC, it does the same as jumpering the connector correct? So we dont have to fool with it anymore, yeah? unless I want to put the BAC into a set duty cycle, to adjust idle screw..? wait..
Ill have to double check all that.

+1 on the throttle screws, I had been thinking about that as well. Ive been eyeballing that throttle stop screw. havent fooled with them, but the PO did have the 3800 stumble and some blown gaskets, etc. Vac leak stuff.. so they may have fooled with those screws not thinking. I havent touched em though.

Those initial high afrs, the 22s and what not, I believe were while the wideband was warming up. I turned the BAC screw, while the car was off, and opened it up a bit to see if it gives me more "range" to adjust the idle down next time. Ill fool with it more tomorrow. I guess i will also jumper the connecter before i try turning the screw.

Im glad to hear positive on the emissions thing, the reading ive done does point to the bonez cat as being the best exhaust option for passing smog. I think the downpipe + presilencer is a visual fail anyway.
Do you tune with or without the airpump? Vrracing was mentioning it will throw off the wideband readings.

SSRat

Ok i wanted to start a new thread, but ill continue on here.
I cant seem to bring the idle down, if it does idle below 900 it starts to putter out. It idles fine to 1500 but then settles, around 1200-1300. Still way too high. I warmed up the car and Jumpered ISC, then set tps. it stayed at 20%. I had the BAC screw turned out, but it only gives me a couple hundred rpm decrease and gives me the 1300 idle turned all the way in. Var res slider makes no difference, nor turning the var res screw. I dont understand that one.

Coolant temp 171

I started poking with the throttle stop screw, it doesnt touch the plate at all and if it does, just the slightest, the rpm jumps to 1800. If I back the throttle stop screw out, idle returns to 1500, but no lower. If I pull the plate back to toward the screw, idle decreases, but then it wants to stumble and ill push it out a hair it revs and returns to 1500. With the thermowax screw all the way in clockwise starts to raise the idle a bit at the end, but if i screw it all te way in, no change. All this with ISC jumpered.

I think my TB is sticking. The only other thing i can think of is the oil meter rod may be stuck in a position, I cant really move it at all, but if its disconnected from the pump, the pump lever swings a good bit Maybe thats causing the TB to stay open.

I also noticed, I had Tee'd my boost gauge into vac line for the thermowax, after the check valve. Its sealed up and boost registers, but would that cause an issue?

Gotta get some petrol, ill be back!

SSRat

I found how to reset the TB on pg 4B-62 and 63 in the FSM. Gotta let the car cool, so when that happens, ill reset it and start over.

Oh and the idle increased when the thermowax screw was turned all the way counterclockwise, my mistake.

SSRat

found this thread, great stuff regarding idle set
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...stment-657023/

Thanks!

SSRat

That thread is awesome! I had to turn the thermwax screw all the way in to get the mark to match up, but Ive got my idle set 750 and AFRs are at 15-16 thats fine. If I adjust the Var Res on the Rtek to 5v AFRs go to 14.7 on the nose, but after a sec the car idles and dies out. Var Res seems to like right at 2.49.

If I stab the gas gas, revs go up then drop to like 550 for a split second, then back up to 750 steady.
Im going to change the fuel filter, since its gone through all the setup stuff, new lines, empty tank, etc. so just for piece of mind.

My concern now is when i give it gas, AFRs go up 17,18, 20 something. my WB goes to 22.74. shouldnt AFRs go down when i stab the gas pedal?

I hear the intake sucking in when i flip the throttle. Weapon R Secret Weapon Intake, lol. I got it new really cheap, like 30 with the adapter. So Im tempted to throw on the stock air box. All emissions still intact. Vr mentioned the airpump throwing things off..

anyway, think i should add fuel on the fuel adjustment map? feedback please!

SSRat

Sooo.. I switched over to Arghx Conservative map with the "overboost" set at 11.5 since my turbo apparently makes peak power around 10psi, and i dont plan on really going over 10 right now (MBC turned down). I figured it would be safer than the moderate map, and leave room for boost later on.

The car idled a bit lean and when I give it gas, AFRs went really lean. Fuel pressure stays the same if the ac or headlights are on, so I think the fuel pump is fine. Ive been playing around with the fuel maps, adding fuel a little like 2.1-4.2 or so in the lower idling areas, and it does richen up my readings. A little certainly does go a long way.

When the fuel map was zeroed out, idle AFRs were around 16 and the car had a "low quiet" sound like a standard car. But when i brougt the fuel up a few points, AFRs are right on 14.7 +/- .4 or so, cool, the car has a deeper more aggressive idle. As stated by Vrracing earlier, im wondering if, since the airpump is still on, my AFRs may indeed be off by two points or more!. and Im really running richer than i think.

So the awesome thing about all of this, is in VA, since the car is more than 25 years old, no more emissions :hallelujah!: So Im in the process of airpump removal, got mah dual alt pulley coming and Im going to remove and block off acv as well. We'll see how much different my readings are.

Also +1 on logging the boost and rpm indexes. I mapped them out accordingly on a blank timing spreadsheet, and they did correspond to the afrs in those particular cells, so i could see roughly how lean i was running in each boost/rpm range, that is cool and if im on the right track like i think, I shouldnt have too much more to do.

Im basically getting the idle afrs right on, revving to 2500 or so and seeing how lean it goes, to give me the rough map on how much fuel to add and once i start doing pulls, stop when it starts to lean out too much and add fuel in those indexed cells.

Question. If since the timing maps im using are zeroed out up top, then should I still add fuel to those boost and rpm ranges?
Ive left them zeroed out for now as well and my highest fuel adjust, right now, is +27% in the high rpm at the 11.5psi row, but i havent started the real tuning yet, just building a safety net.

vrracing

iTrader: (1)

Rat, we have the air pump and acv on and functional but have never seen them impact the AFR in scenarios we cared about. It's been a long time ago but I think it was Satch or Hailers (both RX7 ECU major deities) who documented the behavior. In short they dump air into the exhaust or the cat under specific circumstances to provide extra oxygen to lean out the exhaust for better processing by the cat. I dont think they are at work when you are idling or when you're accelerating. But you should search to verify. We don't see any impact from them in our tuning logs.

You mentioned the significant idle drop. There are two things to check on that. One is the adjustment of the dashpot on the throttle body. It's basically a shock absorber that slows how quickly the throttle drops. There are test and setting instructions in the FSM.

THe second thing to look at there is to make sure the (IIRC) neutral safety switch and clutch switches are working. If you converted from an auto then you have to do extra work to get them wired. Everything will work but the ECU looks at those leads to manage the idle drop if it detects that the clutch is pressed in or the car is in neutral. Our's would die at stop signs consistently and once we wired that up we haven't had any recurrence.

It sounds like you're free-revving to test your mixture. If so you're wasting your time. To test AFRs you have to have a load. Start slow and work your way up. Lots of reps. Focus on consistent throttle %. Takes forever. Neighbors will hate you. Its good to have a friend to work the computer/palm or drive. Cops will appreciate the revenue you help them deliver.

SSRat

Hey thanks, lol. Yeah i did loosen up the dashpot when i was checking the throttle body stuff, i had marked its position but maybe i was still off a little putting it back, ill check that asap!

Ill get the tuning right with the airpump functional for now, thanks!

SSRat

Thanks for mentioning the dashpot, the car starts up better now. 1500 like it should, then down to 750.
I was able to run around by block, and i cruised up and down the street a bit. I think my throttle is sticking (the car sat for a couple years) and the exhaust does pop every now and then. I also think it flows way too much. Vrracing you mentioned you had the bonez cat, that may have a play in things as far as your tuning.

my coolant temps seem too low, 176 or so. when i turned the car off after driving and letting it sit, temps went up to 189 i think. i guess thats ok.
In plviewer my coolant reads 75-80 is that normal? add a hundred to it i guess. the default range in plviewer is 100-230 i think.

Here are my first logs.
My afrs go super lean coasting downhill, i guess thats the airpump doing its job, but it does pop once or twice, too much air?
Ive richened up the fuel maps across the board before making my runs just to be sure i dont run too lean to start. ~+4% in the low boost/low rpm ranges. I thought of zeroing the fuel map to begin with, but it seems to run lean enough already. I was able to bring it up to 4th gear, though.

The car bucks a little until i get down on the throttle a bit, then it picks up smoothly..

SSRat

oh fudge, i realized i named the above file aug 28th, it should be 26th. Lol my days run together anyway.

But here are some logs for today, please check em out. notice on the 2.54 one i have wierdness around 2400 rpm.

It feels good when i give it some throttle.

SSRat

Yay! im at a pretty decent starting point, and was able to cruise around a bit, i brought my girl along too. the car definitely wants to get it. i was able to get up to 8lbs boost. It does a lil pop on my downshifts sometimes, and although i added fuel in the lean spots i saw, it still has a slight buck at cruise in 4th. I think it is my foot though, if i ease off a tiny bit it smooths out, or give it some gas. I still gotta get used to the car, and get everything on it moving again to work itself out, hopefully. But it was a nice ride tonight, its a monster.

Heres the log for evaluation and feedback!

SSRat

Here are some logs from todays run, in run 2 i have one spot where it seems to fall flat, i think i have a timing issue in one or two cells, but i only noticed it once.
i still think my foot has a lot to do with things. the pedal seems responsive, more sensitive than my subaru, but theres a hair between where the car will want to buck slightly and smooth throttle. It may be the car letting me know i need to shift. That clears things up usually.
The car still pops when i shift, too much air?, but it chirps in 1st, 2nd, 3rd even.

SSRat

So the car runs fairly well, ive actually been able to drive it to work and all. Im going through my logs and seeing some spiking occuring and wanted some feedback, too much fuel, too little, possibly something amiss? It seems to be right around the secondary transition (set at 3300) and in the boost/rpm index of 6/7 basically all the 7 rpm index seems to be lean or something. my 5/4- 5/5 indexes seem to do the same spiking at various rpm.

and should my tps shoot to 92% all the time or am i just too heavy footed?
Heres my logs

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Maybe post images/screenshots of the logs?

Glad it's working out for you though!

SSRat

i was able to log just the spiking, but styletap is being a **** and wont let me copy the file to my external drive. Here are some screenshots from pocketlogger.

The car drives fine as long as i watch my shift points and dont throttle so hard. when i press down on the gas quickly my fuel pressure fluxuates up and down until i ease off. if i let of the gas quickly i get backfire, but if i ease off the gas, minimal to no backfire.

It seems to drive alright, cruises around 14.7 and when i get down on it im in 11s. I was able to boost to 10psi yesterday evening. Ive already put 300+ miles on her, but i drive at cruise mostly. The car definitely like higher rpms, but i feel im wasting fuel.

i do premix 1oz/gal as i put new oil inj lines on and am waiting for them to fill up. I have x4 ID 720(725)cc brand new when i put them on.

No smoke, no fire :-)

everything should be tight, but maybe i got a small vac leak somewhere.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Have you rewired your fuel pump? I was having a problem with fluctuating fuel pressure and I rewired the fuel pump and eliminated the fuel pump resistor.

https://www.rx7club.com/nw-rx-7-foru...-issue-870743/

SSRat

You know i was thinking that as well. But considering ive got 2 new lightup gauges, a turbo timer display and the lc-2, im thinking the stock s4 alternator isnt keeping up. Im pretty sure it works at stock level cause my battery voltage has gone from the 12s to 14. I redid all the grounds per aaroncakes site so maybe before i rewire the FP, i want to try upgrading mah alt. I have an s5 one, but i think i jacked it up trying to get the pulley off as it now makes a clicking sound when i spin it. ill take it to get checked. Ive been reading up on installing the taurus one, maybe the fd one would be sufficient, though ive yet to turn on my stereo.

The car does run really well though, scarily so since i edumacationally figured my fuel mapping. I worry its too good to be true. I need trans work though, and motor mounts prolly, and my oil pan leaks. ::sigh::