Dwood432

Thanks!

When you order the fittings you can choose whatever size ID you want. If it were me I would stick with 1" dia, but you never know until you try it out for yourself.

Dwood432

I returned the pump for a couple reasons. 1st, I already have my adaptor plate mounted on the block. When I mounted it I ran into a couple of fitment issues and had to modify it a tiny bit. Therefore I can't return it. 2nd I like the clean look of no water pump housing, and you can't do this on a street driven car with the meziere pump.

SPOautos

Hey guys, I got some info from Davis Craig in a email. They did confirm that the pumps flow numbers are based on a non restricted environment. They also told me in about 4 months they will be selling an additional pump that will flow almost 50% more. Its going to be 30gpm instead of 22gpm.

I'm sorta up in the air between the Davis Craig pump and the Stewart Components pump. Both have an electronic controller but the Stewart pump claims 55gpm versus the Davis of 22gpm. The tech guy at Stewart's said they dont reccomend using the elec pump exclusivly but now that I think about it....why would they? High end mechanical pumps are thier bread and butter and they basically sell the elec ones for people to use at low rpms when thier mech pump isnt turning fast enough. He said "it would be something you may want to experiement with". Maybe thats a subtle way of him telling me I should get it because it should work but that he cant suggest it cause it goes against thier policy. Or maybe this is just me trying to talk myself into buying something hahahaha

What do you guys think?
Stephen

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

What are the benefits of using this compared to the regular old water pump? I've already ditched the A/C, PS, airpump, etc...

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Rob@Pineapple and Keith@KG-Parts are working on alternator adapters. I'm looking into having one made up as well.

Dwood432

To eliminate high rpm cavitation, reduce heat soak by running the pump when the car is shut down, and to clean up the engine bay.

Read this it has a lot of good info. http://www.meziere.com/instructions/...Principles.zip

SPOautos

Hey guys, for anyone wanting a little info. I've just about got everything lined out for a elec water pump swap and its going to be totally streetable. I've got provisions for a GM thermostate, filler neck, the 3 sensors, surge tank(built in ast), heater hose, and nipple to go back to reservoir. The only thing I have left to figure out is the turbo feed. Once I get the turbo feed figured out I'm golden. This will basically bolt up in place of the stock water pump, but this is much smaller and will take up a lot less room. You can use any elec water pump with it, I'm using the Meziere WP336 which is a 55gpm.

If anyone thinks they might want one of these let me know and when I get it all finished I'll work out a price.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Interested, pictures and a price would be great.

SPOautos

With this being Christmas season my time is evaporating so it'll probably be close to a month before I'm completely finished but as soon as its done I'll talk pics and total up all the costs so I can get a price. As a little heads up though I'll say its not going to be cheap....prob in the $300 range. Basically this will bolt up to the engine and provide everything you'll need (all the stuff I listed in the above post). The things you'd still need to buy from there would be moving the alt (I might have a conversion for that also though) and getting the pump. Thats it. As of now, I have no idea how much the alt part will be. Sounds like Keith is working on one too, I'd be interested to see it. If its nice (prob is) I might just skip working on that and buy thiers.

Converting to elec waterpump has proven to be more expensive than I originally thought it would be LOL. But hell....what hasnt on this car hahahaha. I've figured by the time its all said and done I'll have about $700 in this but its going to be REAL nice and totally streetable so I dont care.

Stephen

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Does it even really need the thermostat? I don't need the AST or heater hose lines, as for the turbo coolant line, I'm just going to use a Y AN fitting right off the feed line. I'm not sure how convenient it would be, but I could probably just disconnect the line and funnel it in.

The only concern that really bothers me is relocating and mounting the alternator. There really isn't that much room to the side, even without A/C and power steering.
My BOV might also be in the way. I'd like to mount it as low as possible.

Dwood432

If it is street driven, yes you need a thermostat.

There is plenty of room to relocate the alternator. See the pics I posted a couple of pages back. Most people mount it right to the front cover on the driver’s side (of course).

SPOautos

Yea, you need the thermostat and ast. You'll have to include something to remove air from the system and it needs to be at the highest spot of the system. This doesnt have a seperate "ast", its basically built into the adapter. Its hard to explain, you'll just have to wait till I have pics

You also wont be able to just dissconnect a line to funnel it in without getting a LOT of air in the system.

I was going to just set this up where you can use standard radiator hose. Have you priced -20 lines and fittings? With no special Y's and such from what I've estimated it would be around $450 just for the line and fittings plus extras like the Y's and such that you might end up needing. After seeing that I decided to stick with radiator hose. Its no more pressure than before so its not going to matter. Radiator hose is designed for these pressures so its not going to be a problem.

I think the alt relacation kit is going to put it down pretty low. Dont know exactly though. I should have a LOT more answers and pictures come mid January.

Believe me man, I've spend countless nights looking into this and talking to a LOT of custom race shops that specialize in cooling systems for high performance cars. If this is going to be a street car the way I'm setting it up is the best way to do it. Its not going to cost that much more and it'll be worth it to have your cooling system "right".

Oh yea, one last thing you do need to keep you heater system in place for 2 rasons. One is if you remove all of that then you not going to have as much coolant (bad thing). Also, the heater system is the bypass so that when the thermostate is closed you dont build up too much pressure in the engine. The pump is still turning and it needs to have a small bypass that enters back into the low pressure side before the pump. The heater system does this function. I guess you could just run a hose from the back side of the engine up to the low pressure side.....but that means you'll still need a heater hose entry on the low pressure side no matter if you run the heater system or not since its also the bypass.

Stephen

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

That's Carlos's setup. I'm going to run without a thermostat, I'm going to run the Craig Davies pump with the controller which should work in place of the thermostat. I got them for a killer deal, I've also got the hookup on -16 AN fittings and will begin selling some at discount soon. Stay tuned.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Just incase anyone is interested in a killer deal, you can purchase the Davies, Craig super cheap from HERE!

Maybe we can order a few to save on shipping?

SPOautos

Who's car is that? Carlo's who? Is it a street car or mostly race car?

The Craig Davis pump flows about half what your stock pump flows in high rpms. Thats why I decided against it. Its only a 22gpm pump and thats with no restriction or pressure at all. The test data is just free flow numbers of it pumping into a bucket.

But you can try it out and let us know how it goes. Thats the one I was originally looking at and going to use. I just decided against it after talking with them and finding out how low the flow numbers are. I'd be interested to know how well it works with long high rpms pulls and road courses. If you'll have your car up and running pretty soon I might hold off on my project to see how well that Craig Davis works for you.

BTW - The total of the two items you need add up to $365.90 + shipping.....is that US dollars?

Also, you might want to consider -20 which has a 1" ID. That -16 has 7/8" ID and going to be almost 1/4" smaller than the stock lines which are a little over 1". The stock stuff would figure out to be about -22 but most high performance cars run -20. I'm going ot just run radiator hose. The Craig Davis pump is setup for radiator hose and you can get the engine adapter with radiator hose ends as well. I just figued I'd skip the AN fittings and run regular hose and put that money towards a higher flow pump.

Stephen

SPOautos

Been too long...couldnt edit again but I forgot to mention that the stock pump should flow around 55-60gpm in a free flow environment. The Craig Davis would flow more than stock up to 5K rpms but stock would outflow the Craig Davis from 5K up to redline.

Has Carlos tested this pump with a lot of high rpm racing or a road course or anything like that?

The flow numbers just scare me away from it.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Check out an independent test of several electric water pumps.
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techt/research&dev.htm
You can see which one flows the most and draws the least amount of power.

As far as the price is concerned that is $189.95 Australian dollars which equals out to be $147.82 in American dollars. I already purchased the controller of of eBay for $50.00.

It would be nice to run the biggest lines possible, but as far as I know neither the KG-Parts (-16 AN) nor the Meziere NPT adapter allow you to run hoses of that size.

SPOautos

Does anyone know of that shop that did the testing? I find these results hard to believe. I know they say they are "unbiast" however, they sell the Davis Craig pumps and fans so I dont know that I could believe they are totally unbiast especially with the results they have

What they are saying is that two trusted brands that have been making elec water pumps for a long time have been full of ****. They are saying that the CSI pump with claims to flow 132 liters/min really only flows 58 liters.min. They are saying the Meziere pump which claims to flow 208 liters/min really only flows 60 liters/min. These numbers arent even high enough to keep a high performance car from over heating and I know a LOT of high performance street cars with V8's running the Meziere pumps and staying cooler than thier stock pumps.

Then on top of that they say the Craig Davis pump has a free flow of over 3000 liters/minute!!!! WTF, how can that be right? There is no way, its impossible that the pump is flowing nearly 800gpm. Look at thier numbers, it shows 50.32 liters/SECOND free flow. The only explaination is they tested it wrong or its a type and should be 50.32 liters/minute. The only problem is if its supposed to be per minute that means it flows more in a restrictive envoronment than it would in a free flow environment. That doesnt sound right either.

Those numbers just dont seem to be adding up or making much sense. Also if you look at thier fan testing they list them all by "imported" and "domestic" fans.

Personally, I think they are biased and trying to keep people from purchasing "import" products. I do find it odd that in all the tests they run all of the winners are Au companies. Something just doesnt smell right on that site.

I wish there were some more tests similar to this one. Does anyone know of any?
Stephen

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

You can find out a lot on the Ausrotary board (I think they were mentioned earlier)
http://ausrotary.dntinternet.com/forums/search.php Just type in EWP

Ford Muscle also has a pretty good writeup on the pump and controller.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...mp/index.shtml
The pictures posted earlier of the "Evil 7" 3 rotor, PP, single turbo is also running the same pump.

Mr. Stock

Why don't you and Glassman run your own independent free flow test.

I think it would be simple to get the pump(you each already have one?) and hook it up to a battery and pump water and see how much it pumps in 1 hour. Seems like it would be pretty simple to do. Then each of you can post your results.

And if the pumps does not live up to the claims, return them.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Here's a few more setup pictures that I've come across.

SPOautos

There was a guy on the Aussi forum saying when he was making 341rwhp he started getting hot running the Davis Craig pump with the controller. He said the controller was too slow to react and he ended up having to remove it and run the pump full blast all the time. I know guys with LS1's making a lot more power in street cars running a Mezeire/thermostat setup that stay very cool. Nothing I have ever seen or heard meshes with the testing thats on that website.

What the deal with you guys wanting to run such a stripped cooling system? I dont understand it, any properly setup street car cooling system needs all of its sensors, a way to seperate the air at the highest point, filler cap, a overflow system. Depending on the turbo it needs turbo feed and drain, and also in my case I want to keep a heater since its a street car that I drive in cold weather.

I just dont see how you guys are going to get around all of these things and have a solid reliable cooling system for a street car. Sure for a drag race car with no real street duty that only runs for 10 seconds or less at a time you dont need overflow and maybe you can get buy with no way of seperating air since its short bursts. But I just dont get it with a street car, you guys are going to need all of these things. I think if you want to run the Davis Craig pump you should keep the stock pump housings and just pull the actual "pump" out of it. That way you keep your entire system and it operates correctly. All of those things are of importance for a street car to be "right". Its not that hard to implement these things with a thermostat, it just takes a little more money but I mean really....compared to everything else you've spent whats another couple hundred to have your cooling system "right". If you decide on the DC I'd REALLY consider running it with the housing so you have all the stock sensors, air seperation,heater hoses, turbo coolant lines, ect ect.

BTW - I cant tell about the first pic on your post glass man but the next two look like tube chasis race cars. I dont know that I'd follow thier foot steps for a street car setup.

just my .02, I'm sure everyone else has that much or more haha

Stephen

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

Like I said the PP 3 Rotor is running the same setup. I think it will make a tad bit more than 341 rwhp. Carlos is running the same setup, so is the gentleman with the rotary powered plane that you referred to.

My car is hardly a street car. It doesn't have a stereo, power steering, abs, a/c, and air bags. It's also got a carbon fiber hatch with Lexan and carbon fiber doors.
What's the deal with you removing your A/C, PS and running you turbos NS? I'm not concerned about the turbo coolant feed and return, I already have the necessary fittings and have it planned out. You want the heater but not the A/C, don't you live in the South? That doesn't make much sense to me.

That's my problem to worry about. I'll let you know how it works when all is said and done. I don't think having an AST is a big deal because I've been running without one for 40,000 miles now and haven't had a problem yet. I also run Evans.
The system will have a proper filler neck and all necessary fittings, lines, feeds, returns, etc...

SPOautos

Dont you now have a vac line that goes from your thermostate housing to the over flow tank that now removes the air? If so, thats a air seperator. You'll still need one and it needs to be at the top of the system.

Maybe I had the wrong impression of how your designing your system. I was under the impression that you werent going to have a filler neck or any type or air bleed, that it was going to be very basic like a race car. Since I thought you were building a street car I thought you might have problems like that.

Anyway, didnt realize this was for more of a race car.

Yea, I'm in the south...I'm used to the heat and cant stand cold lol

BTW - Damn thats a lot of money to spend on braided lines and fittings for a 0 pressure system using Evans!!! It'll look nice though, thats for sure

SPOautos

Forgot to mention this earlier, someone down the road might need the information if they are using radiator hose instead of braided lines.

The Meziere uses -16AN if you get that type fitting. If you order it with radiator hose fittings you can get 1.50"-1.75" lower and 1.25" upper radiator hose fittings.

There is also the Stewart Components elec water pump that will go all the way up to -32