APEXL8T

Any body using a small bypass technique in the pump housing?

GT1-20b

If You by-pass internally, You will starve the injectors, as demand increases. then BOOM !
Can NOT do that. !!!....................
One MUST have max. press. at the rail, and alow the regulator to regulate the WHOLE delivery syst. prior to the return.
If one regulates prior to the engine, then, a) You don't get a boost referenced gain of fuel press. at the injectors, b) due to the constant press. & volume, the supply will deminish as demand increases. ie: as Rpm increases, press. WILL decrease, & so will volume. The engine will lean out.
Porche race cars have been running Turbo engines before the WORD "TURBO" reached Japan.
They run BOSH fuel pumps w/ 130 + psi line presures, and have done this succesfully since the 80's ......... and before intercoolers existed. ...... Think about it.

Don't try to re-invent the wheel with fancy fuel pumps !
There are certain "Knowns", that work !

As to the Fuel coolers, the closer to the engine the better, at the highest press. possible. Simple as that.

We could go into Bernuli's principle, but that would fly over most.

By the way, ALL "BOSH" fuel pumps, have a one-way check valve at the discharge port. ... so, a) NO BY_PASSING can occur. b) maintains HI RAIL PRESS. so easy start-up occurs. c) deminishes possibility of PERCULATION.

Just an obserbation.

GT1-20b

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

We only run Bosch pumps on the higher modded cars never had a problem. Michel STAY AWAY FROM BG PUMPS!!!! We had two bad experiences with their pumps and service. They were just short of idiots when we delt with them. These were pumps already installed on cars when they came in, just to make that clear.

APEXL8T

i didnt notice the thread above...
My question is about the thermostat section of the waterpump housing with respect to allowing more constant flow instead of the stock heat cycle. We remove thermostats and use a small replacement piece thats allows for a slow but constant flow to through the system. It keeps the block cooler.This is on a piston motor but I did this on a pump for the race car too but never used it.

rx7tt95

Well I guess I'll stay away from Barry Grant pumps! It seems like the Bosch would work very well (the Porsche GT1 Bosch pump) and I've never had an issue with my Walbros. There was some discussion on fuel pickup issues using the two Walbros which is why I even thought about going back to one pump. There's a guy in Virginia that SWEARS he's using one Walbro, making high 400's at the wheels, stock lines, at 18psi on a T78. Strictly uses it at the track.

Now Carlos, I know you've told me I must upgrade my lines, from the single stock line to at least a 1/2" (6AN?) line or possibly two stock lines with a new return line (sounds easiest to me!) I haven't experienced any pickup issues using the two pumps. I'm not sure if it's fuel starvation that's happening? One pump sucking away fuel from another? I effectively have a 1996 fuel tank (car made in Dec. of 1995) and it's a bit different from earlier tanks. Not sure if this has anything to do with it.

So for fuel coolers, it'd have to be as close as possible to the engine bay...that pretty much means an inline cooler. Is there or would there be any benefit to throwing one on the return line as well?

How much of a problem will I run into removing the pulsation damper to run the 6AN line?

13btnos

iTrader: (1)

If your looking for the Bosch 044 pump this guys prices can't be beat http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33555 Also what are you guys using for a fuel cooler if you have a link or description of it I would really appreciate it. Also do any of you have any experience with Aeromotive fuel pumps specifically the Eliminator fuel pump. That's the the pump I have it has 12AN feed line and the pressure line is 10AN and I have a Weldon regulator with 6AN return. Just trying to find out how good this setup is for me.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

just read the entire thread, and i have to say this is an awesome car you are working on here. that engine must be spectacular.

just wanted to know, was there a thread posted about the CLR rotors?
i am very interested in them and would like to get more info

thanks
- Aaron

rx7tt95

I'd shoot CLR an e-mail directly. CLRotary@bellsouth.net

There is a thread in this section on the rotors as well. Oil pan is here, waiting for the claims adjuster to show up. Car "might" be back on the road by Friday night!

rx7tt95

Car won't be operating until Tuesday. Damn the three day holiday! On a good note, all the new parts for the dyno are here as well. They're crunched for time currently so it's not together yet. Hoping to go over and help put it all back together next weekend. The new nose should be here in a week or two and I'll probably loose the car again for one week as it's fitted and painted.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

If the body shop said one week figure two.

sillbeer

I'm running 1 inline 044 pump to my fuel collector and 2 044 pumps to my engine. I don't have any fuel issues at all. There noisy though. When I redo my fuel system they will be mounted under the car somewhere to cut down on the noise.

-Destin

dubulup

fuel cooler return line...

I don't see much benefit there...you cool the fuel before the pump picks it up, and then the "cooler" fuel can't change the temp of fuel in an 18+ gallon tank that much can it???...maybe at the bottom end??? Could be effective if you had a small fuel cell.

So an inline cooler in the bay or as close to it...would this take enough heat out of the combuston stroke to make up for higher intake temps?? How hot is fuel as it enters the engine?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Good advice. I'd stretch that to three weeks though, lol.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

HA! Right! I have had enough cars painted to know always add about two weeks to their estimated time.

rx7tt95

Speaking of body shops...can get a killer deal through Chuck on the Feed Widebody OR I can get a very good deal on the RE-Amemiya AD-GT widebody (real) for about $500 more directly through RE-Amemiya. Wheel width increases would be about the same. Already using the RE-A N1 nose, might as well get the complete kit, right? AFIK, it'd be the only AD-GT kit in the country too.

I should know better than guestimate a week's time for the body work based on all my (bad) experiences with shops in my area. Just keeping my fingers crossed as he primarily does work for Evo Motorworks and thus they block off time to work on my car specifically. I figure he can fit the bumper in 1/2 day and then prep/prime the nose and when he's ready to paint, I'll bring the car in. Probably wishful thinking!

rx7tt95

Here are a few very ugly pictures. Not for the weak or timid!

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Please tell me you got a plate # and are getting a claim made.

rx7tt95

That's the thing around here...there are so many gravel trucks it isn't funny. It's actually a major safety issue here. Construction is going up so fast, there's a tremendous need for non-organic fill dirt. I'm in the process of building a home now. They just cleared the lot and it's gone up in value $100,000 and the foundation isn't even laid yet! Growth is exponential. Anyway...all these homes are going up and there aren't enough local gravel trucks to haul all the needed fill. So we get truckers from Miami and all over the state. Most do not have valid trucker's licenses and the trucks do not meet safety code. It's a really big problem. Most of the guys are independents. This means they just drive over and start hauling loads. The more loads, the more money. Lots of trucks, lots of unsecured loads, lots of accidents due to negligent operators and speeding. I got caught up in it. Unfortunately, being that most are independents, there's no external identification on the trucks. No names, no phone numbers. The truck that dumped it's load (or so I think) was actually headed in the other direction after making a left turn out of the gravel pit. Truck in front of me managed to hit the rocks, grind them up a bit and spit them out at me. He actually made the chunks smaller! There's another big dump truck on my ***, so I can't brake hard and stop for fear of being crushed alive. It's a two lane road with traffic (trucks) coming the other way. I can't swerve. I close my eyes and cringe as the rocks smash into the bumper and pan. The worst part is, the insurance company (Allstate) said I could have avoided the rocks. If they came flying at me and did not touch the ground, it would not be my fault. As they hit the ground, it becomes my fault and naturally, if I make a claim, there's a deductible. So a thousand dollars in parts, a bit less in labor, and I'm out a couple of hundered and they'll threaten to remove my good driver's discount. Nice. I may fight them on this one. On another note, Allstate has a policy where aftermarket parts are covered up to $1,000. That's crap. Haven't checked to see if there's a way to modify the policy. I might have to find a mod-friendly insurance company. When will they realize many aftermarket parts are actually LESS expensive than the stock pieces?

rx7tt95

This is a cross post from a topic on neg split. Wanted to repost it here in the CLR thread for cross reference reasons and to have all the info in one, albeit long, post. It'll make searching easier and more relevant.

Had a talk with Carlos about neg split so I understand a bit better. I'll paraphrase a bit as he always has to put things in layman's terms with me Carlos, you need to hold rotary seminars in your free time (big pun there!).

Negative split and EGTs.

The Higher EGT's don't come fron the advanced trailing timing, but from leaner A/F ratios.

One can run much more complete combustion cycle with negative egt's and the leaner a/f ratios are a direct result of negative split. Negative split helps maintain the highly efficient conbustion and it is capable of sustaining super lean A/F's.

Without this negative split advanced (t) ignition timing, the car would simply buck and miss, while in trailing throttle or cruse; all due to not been able to maintain a stable combustion with these leaner than normal A/F's

The fact that the A/F is near stratification, it in is self, requires extremly early ignition, so that the flame kernel can propogate with enough time to catch up the leading portion of the chamber. ... Which in it self is always and constantly runing away from the flame front.

Therefore, the earlier one lights the fire, the more mixture the flame can consume before it is extinguished by the many factors that affect a Rotary engines combustion cycle.

These factors include but not limited to a) a very HI surface to volume ratio, b) cold regions of the "cylinder" walls, or side housings that are rarely exposed to high temperatures c) very hi "Gas Transfer Velocity " that takes place only on the trailing side of the combustion chamber just at BTDC. which in it self, poseses inherent characteristics of blowing out the spark, like blowing out a candle, d) the nesesity of running super cold spark plugs, due to a very low "Water jacket to surface contact ratio.
So on and so on. !!! .......I could go on for ever on this subject, but .........

Advancing the trailing timing will actually reduced EGT.
If You care to experiment. simply retard the (t) timing say 20 degrees behind the Leading (w/ out changing You'r A/F's) and whatch what happens. (I'm not going to try!)

Guaranteed, you will see your turbine housing glow in the dark while in the middle of the day ! LOL ! Try it.
You will also see Your turbocharger come apart in no time if You continue to drive for extended periods in this condition. (Ok, Carlos, I'll try it, but only if you agree to replace my turbo!)

This DOES promote a cleaner burn of spent unburned HC's .
But we are talking performance, not emissions here.

On the other hand, a less harmfull experiment WILL prove that the high EGT is mainly fuel related:
Keep Your ignition timing maps as they are, and simply adjust the fuel maps to a more traditional tune, say just below stoch. and only in tha Vac. side of map.
Guarantee You WILL see the EGt's DROP like a bomb, and fuel economy fall off as well.

Now with that in mind, a couple of notes from me. First, I get AMAZING fuel mileage for my setup on the highway. It's almost unbelieveable. My a/f ratios on cruise are in the high 15's, low 16's. I did add a bit of fuel the other day to bring me near the low 15's and my egt's dropped by about 50+ degrees.

I won't say I get very good gas mileage in town. Part of the problem is my excessively rich idle and part of the problem is my right foot. There are days I really try to baby the car, and it's tough, and the gas mileage seems to be acceptable. I have no overheating issues with the higher egt's on the highway. I've driven the car for hours straight without issue. Part of it is due to the "total package" philosophy of the motor and cooling system setup per Carlos' experience and recommendations.

I do run a fairly large turbo, large hot side, with a poorly designed manifold. I'm hoping to switch to an A-spec manifold here shortly which I'm sure will improve things a bit. It's not as laggy off boost as say a T78 and it's fairly close to a 35R in spool time (GT4088/82 hybrid plain bearing, 88 compressor with the 82's turbine on a .94 hot side housing) but I feel like I'm giving something away due to the manifold, midpipe muffler and the GReddy Power Extreme. I have a feeling switching to a higher flowing exhaust system and better manifold will make a world of difference. BUT, the good news is that if you're cruising and nail the throttle, there is no discernable lag. Granted I'm running around .95kg at the moment but it'll go from vacuum to full boost in less than a second if you're at 3K or above. The higher egt's already have that turbine spinning so when you nail it, the car just goes. Now if I just had traction...

I run B10EGV's, no fouling as of yet. I did just switch to a higher amp alternator and my idle quality has never been better. One would never know I have the phased rotors and a very large street port.

JBurer

Nice writeup - thanks Michele.

GT1-20b

Drop the size of the Primarie's to 550's, & .......
Increase Your fuel press to 72 psi under boost. .............
Adjust Your A/F @ idel & hi Vac, to 16 ++,

It's like Majic

MARTIN

16+++? I cant get my car to idle with anything above 14...

rx7tt95

Well that's partly because you're not using negative split. If you read through the posts, you'll see it's the main reason the engine can sustain very lean a/f ratios. It's in fact because of negative split and a really efficient burn that you get those lean a/f ratios. Make sense? I really do see high 15's, low 16's cruising around town in the areas I have adjusted correctly. I have a few areas I need to work on which is where I'm a bit on the rich side, hurting gas mileage.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

i'm just thinking here, even though you get a more efficient burn, is actual power reduced when running in negative split areas?
i mean, it doesn't really matter because that's not where you need power anyways, just a thought.

MARTIN

ahh, I wasnt even thinking about neg split when deciding on an ecu. Mine only goes from 15-0. with a .2* accuracy..