What's the winning SCCA E-Prod setup for RX-7's?
10-13-04, 10:26 AM
#26
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Don't let the idea that you already have a good body shell be the basis of any decision to build a race car. For IT and Production cars, the cost of the body shell is nothing; a shell is only $200; compared to the cost of all $5000 to $10,000 of go fast parts you have to put on it to turn it into a race car.
I have seen far to many failed race car building projects, all that started on the premise "I already have this good body" and they don't realize that they must put in $5000 to $25,000 more in parts and hundreds of hours of labor before it will be a front running car.
A front running National level EP Mazda will cost $20,000 to $40,000 to build, depending on how much of the fabrication you can do your self.
I have seen far to many failed race car building projects, all that started on the premise "I already have this good body" and they don't realize that they must put in $5000 to $25,000 more in parts and hundreds of hours of labor before it will be a front running car.
A front running National level EP Mazda will cost $20,000 to $40,000 to build, depending on how much of the fabrication you can do your self.
10-13-04, 12:46 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by speedturn
I have seen far to many failed race car building projects, all that started on the premise "I already have this good body" and they don't realize that they must put in $5000 to $25,000 more in parts and hundreds of hours of labor before it will be a front running car.
A front running National level EP Mazda will cost $20,000 to $40,000 to build, depending on how much of the fabrication you can do your self.
A front running National level EP Mazda will cost $20,000 to $40,000 to build, depending on how much of the fabrication you can do your self.
It is a waste of a car to have someone with ZERO experience in road racing to hop into a front running car.
For MOST on this forum, making a start with what they have is a LOT better than waiting forever for that "Perfect" chassis.. that will never arrive.
The cost factor is the same no matter what you use.. As everyone has seen the 1st gen 2nd gen debate is still up in the air.
Therefore.. go with what you have, and have experience working on.
10-13-04, 12:49 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by cpa7man
Scott from what I'm told 12a parts are still less expensive that 13b parts. You MUST run the rotor housings and end plates from the GSL-SE in the 1st gen. These are very expensive. Now running the 2nd gen like your are gives you a lot more choices. That said I found a complete SE in FT Worth for cheap....... Hope to see some of you guys at the runoffs next year.
Paul
edit: Scott I think the brake issue has been fixed. Soon we should see official confirmatuion that we can run Sevensonly front brake setup(with stock caliper) or the KC Raceware one. (I've got GSL brakes upfront now)
Paul
edit: Scott I think the brake issue has been fixed. Soon we should see official confirmatuion that we can run Sevensonly front brake setup(with stock caliper) or the KC Raceware one. (I've got GSL brakes upfront now)
There are a LOT of drag racers in the Central Florida area.. and the GSL-SEs are like Cosmos... VERY RARE.
(Wish it wasnt so)
I looked for one for over a year to do a change over for my old RX-3. Never found one remotely local.
10-13-04, 02:03 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by SPiN Racing
True... BUt he said he just wants to start racing.. Not win the runoffs with zero driving experience.
It is a waste of a car to have someone with ZERO experience in road racing to hop into a front running car.
For MOST on this forum, making a start with what they have is a LOT better than waiting forever for that "Perfect" chassis.. that will never arrive.
The cost factor is the same no matter what you use.. As everyone has seen the 1st gen 2nd gen debate is still up in the air.
Therefore.. go with what you have, and have experience working on.
It is a waste of a car to have someone with ZERO experience in road racing to hop into a front running car.
For MOST on this forum, making a start with what they have is a LOT better than waiting forever for that "Perfect" chassis.. that will never arrive.
The cost factor is the same no matter what you use.. As everyone has seen the 1st gen 2nd gen debate is still up in the air.
Therefore.. go with what you have, and have experience working on.
But you're right, I just want to get out there with something decent and not have to switch to a completely different chassis when I decide to go national.
10-13-04, 02:03 PM
#30
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Why is it that so many experienced racers say "Buy a used race car, don't build one from scratch"
Why is is that so many wanna be racers say "I can build a car cheaper than I can buy a used one" and then they find out they were wrong. The sale price of a used race car is frequently about the sum total of what the parts in it cost; very few people make a profit when they sell their used race car; they usually loose money on them.
Why is is that so many wanna be racers say "I can build a car cheaper than I can buy a used one" and then they find out they were wrong. The sale price of a used race car is frequently about the sum total of what the parts in it cost; very few people make a profit when they sell their used race car; they usually loose money on them.
10-13-04, 03:16 PM
#31
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I make money or at least got my money back on almost every car I've ever sold. Except race cars. They are freaking money pits. Especially first gen ITA/IT7 cars... ugh...
On one hand, if you had a welder and were good at making cages, you could spend $1000 for a decent running first gen, freshen it up, pull the interior, weld in a cage, get the belts, the electrical switch, and a few other miscellaneous necessaries, and get out to race for undr $2000. I wouldn't recommend it, stock suspension, stock tires, old bushings, old control arms, old bearings, etc... but it could be done.
On one hand, if you had a welder and were good at making cages, you could spend $1000 for a decent running first gen, freshen it up, pull the interior, weld in a cage, get the belts, the electrical switch, and a few other miscellaneous necessaries, and get out to race for undr $2000. I wouldn't recommend it, stock suspension, stock tires, old bushings, old control arms, old bearings, etc... but it could be done.
10-13-04, 04:09 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by speedturn
Why is it that so many experienced racers say "Buy a used race car, don't build one from scratch"
Why is is that so many wanna be racers say "I can build a car cheaper than I can buy a used one" and then they find out they were wrong. The sale price of a used race car is frequently about the sum total of what the parts in it cost; very few people make a profit when they sell their used race car; they usually loose money on them.
Why is is that so many wanna be racers say "I can build a car cheaper than I can buy a used one" and then they find out they were wrong. The sale price of a used race car is frequently about the sum total of what the parts in it cost; very few people make a profit when they sell their used race car; they usually loose money on them.
The general rule of thumb in the production community is about 60%-70%. Invest $20k get $12k+ when you sell it. It's not like there's a lot of buyers out there.
I just got a great deal on this car. I paid a lot less than the asking. Needs some work to get it on the track. http://www.racer-net.com/scapde02.htm The good news is that it's 90% ready to go.
I looked at building my own EP car. I have a perfect 1st gen sitting in storage. Disks all around, lsd, and no sunroof. My issue is the time. I don't have the skill or the time to build a race car from scratch. **** I've spent the last 5 sundays replacing the sheet metal on my IT car so someone will want to rent/buy it.
There is no doubt. Look here and buy someone elses money pit for 60 cents on the $. http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/...2136d6cac4325d
I've been trying to buy whatever I can from Mr. Prather. Good stuff....great guy.
10-13-04, 05:42 PM
#33
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Steven Burkette's EP car is for sale as well...
http://www.solo2.org/ubb/ultimatebb....pic/4/966.html
http://www.solo2.org/ubb/ultimatebb....pic/4/966.html
10-13-04, 06:51 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by SPiN Racing
True... But he said he just wants to start racing.. Not win the runoffs with zero driving experience......
What's the winning SCCA E-Prod setup for RX-7's?
As a disclaimer: most of my comments were aimed at that question.
And as for a newcomer with limited experience coming into EP, I would be in aggreement with Scott's comments, and I actually agree that buying a GOOD used race car would be the best bet from a strict financial stand point. But most of us like to tinker and think we can do it better, faster, cheaper, than the next guy
Mr. John Wiesberg is also selling his very sorted 2nd gen EP
http://www.coloradoscca.org/prodcar/...pic.php?t=3489
PICS
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/sel...John_Weisburg#
Some random unfinished EP/ITS project :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=46093
-Bern
10-13-04, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Barwick
I had it wander on my race car with a "wow this is really tight" (as tested by several IT7 racers) steering box.
again the box is horrible for feel and input, but a nice tight box is not a safety issue! I run my 1st gen at track days and don't really have an issue until let's say over 125mph.-Bern
10-14-04, 09:07 AM
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Trust me when I tell you that the buying the car is the cheap part. After that it gets real expensive! I still think a 1st gen with a 13b would be the way to go. I still have yet to see a fully developed 1st gen. Yea some are close but still not quite there. When we see someone spend $60,000 on a first gen , we will see it walk away from the field. I don't even want to guess how much those Miata guys have spent. I'll be willing to bet well north of the $100,000 mark.
Roland Hahn
EP16
Roland Hahn
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10-14-04, 05:27 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Speeds16
Trust me when I tell you that the buying the car is the cheap part. After that it gets real expensive! I still think a 1st gen with a 13b would be the way to go. I still have yet to see a fully developed 1st gen. Yea some are close but still not quite there. When we see someone spend $60,000 on a first gen , we will see it walk away from the field. I don't even want to guess how much those Miata guys have spent. I'll be willing to bet well north of the $100,000 mark.
Roland Hahn
EP16
Roland Hahn
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guys.... you can always do what Roland did at the run-offs... borrow someone else car and run that.. of course the owner might need half the parts off the car you borrowed.. and you might not have much car left!!
your friendly next door neighbor at this years run-offs!!
-Bern
10-15-04, 08:22 AM
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He had to stop pulling the parts off once I got to minumin weight. Just wait till next year when I get to keep all the parts and the motor gets fuel!! I'm happy with 20th in that bucket .
Just wait till next year when I get to keep all the parts and the motor gets fuel!! I'm happy with 20th in that bucket .
10-27-04, 04:53 PM
#40
2 piece hub and rotor just got approved for rx-3 and 1st gen.
EFFECTIVE FIRST DAY OF THE COVER MONTH: DECEMBER 2004
Production
EP
1. Mazda RX-3 & 3SP (72-78), p. 50-51,
add to the notes as follows: alternate two piece
hub and rotor allowed provided they
are of the same dimensions as original.
2. Mazda RX-7 (12A/13B) (79-85), p. 50-
51, add to the notes as follows: alternate
two-piece hub and rotor allowed provided
they are of the same dimensions as original.
EFFECTIVE FIRST DAY OF THE COVER MONTH: DECEMBER 2004
Production
EP
1. Mazda RX-3 & 3SP (72-78), p. 50-51,
add to the notes as follows: alternate two piece
hub and rotor allowed provided they
are of the same dimensions as original.
2. Mazda RX-7 (12A/13B) (79-85), p. 50-
51, add to the notes as follows: alternate
two-piece hub and rotor allowed provided
they are of the same dimensions as original.
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