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Old 02-11-08, 03:49 PM   #1
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How Good is the FC as a Race car?

I'm contemplating converting one of my FC's into a dedicated Track car.. off road use only..

it'll be my S4..

i'm just wondering how good a Track car is the FC? being that it's 20yrs old and all now..

Gutted, Roll cage, kidney punching suspension fuel cell, etc etc.. and a 13B-RE cosmo motor with ~350-400hp

assuming = drivers can the FC compete with the likes of a Stock Z6 Z06 with slicks, or a Porsche GT3 RS for example?


the reason I ask.. locally we have a Foruma 1 track... but it's a small country.. and the classes are not really that well devided.. ppl kinda get thrown together... Run what u Brung.. with minor categorization.

so other it's mostly Evo's mini coopers some honda boys 1 Z06 2 GT3RS's a supercharged 350Z etc...

the Track is 2.55 km with a width varying between 14m - 15m (8 turns)
Click the image to open in full size.



basically before dumping a bunch of money in.. does the FC have a fighting chance on this sort of track? or is it a waste of time and money?

I know my FD would be a better candidate.. but i'm not willing to gut her and hack her into a Race car..
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Old 02-11-08, 04:09 PM   #2
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The FC makes a pretty good race car. The rear suspension has some toe issues but other than that I don't know of anything really against the FC offhand.
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Old 02-11-08, 04:24 PM   #3
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so all it needs is the DTSS to sort that out and that's it? or is it something inherent to the suspension geometry?
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Old 02-11-08, 05:40 PM   #4
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The FC is a fine platform for racing. I have one myself.

Having said that, I must point out that the FC has some non-trivial performance handicaps. The most significant of which is the all important suspension. McPherson fronts and trailing arm rears are not quite the state of the art. They can be made to handle well with the proper setup, but will never quite be as good as a true double A-arm setup (ie. the FD).

The reason that a lot of us run FC's on the track is that it will be a very good and competitive car in its class. Or else we just like the FC as a platform. Performance parts are reasonably priced (thank you Mazda Motorsports) and for cheap(er) fun racing they are hard to beat.

Bottom line - what are your class restrictions? Are you looking at a serious commitment to winning a class series trophy, or are you looking at just getting your ya-ya's out driving fast in a circle on weekends? (there is no shame in the latter). You can build an FC into a truly great track machine. You can get the car running fairly cheaply and constantly improve the vehicle as your driving skills improve. Shells are cheap in case you do end up balling one up.

But if you want something that's gonna go out there and eat up Porsche's and M3's for lunch, it may not be too much more expensive in the long run to start with an FD shell and build from that. Initial cost of getting a running FC track car may be less. If you got the coin up front and aren't limited by class restrictions, the FD may well be a better starting point.

Do a search back through this forum. There was a great thread on building up an FD track monster, as well as great advice on getting the most out of an FC on a budget.

Good luck and keep us appraised.

-bill
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Last edited by wrankin; 02-11-08 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 02-11-08, 06:18 PM   #5
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^ What he said.

Also, most FC race cars in North America are non-turbos (class reasons), so there won't be as much expertise in building a seriously fast turbo road race car. Mazda Competition support is limited to Canada and the US, so that means that getting those parts over there will be harder and more expensive.

Carl Byck built himself a very fast widebody, turbo TII race car, he'd be a good guy to talk to about such a project.
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Old 02-12-08, 02:30 AM   #6
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the suspension isn't THAT bad, porsches and m3s still use mcpherson front suspensions.... The basic layout is great, low polar inertia, 50/50 balance, good aerodynamics, and it should have a low center of gravity too. With a roll cage the chassis is as strong as you are willing to pay for. Unless the rear suspension is truely flawed, I can't see why the fc chassis cannot be brought up to the same levels as a porsche 911 or a corvette.
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Old 02-12-08, 02:47 AM   #7
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thanks guys

the class regulations here aren't so strict.. cuz there's not enough ppl...

so basically..

i'm in the A2: Over 2000cc + Modified Force Induction Cars.

so i'll be running with Evo's and Porsche GT3's


doesn't matter if I have a 13b or 20B or any porting i want.. a turbo as big as i want..

all rotors are in the 2,000+ CC class... sky is the limit..

so Making power isn't the problem

It's Turning, stopping, and gripping that is..


The racing isnt wheel to wheel either.. (wouldn't want those expensive cars getting damaged would we?)

u basically warm up and practice as a group

and the racing itself is Time attack style.. u drive alone




if a 450hp FC can get 1 min flat on Tsukuba.. then it should be pretty damn competitive no?
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Old 02-12-08, 10:56 AM   #8
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Is there maybe a class for non forced induction cars? The 13B can make about 350hp naturally aspirated (peripheral port) and the 20B can make 470hp or so. That might allow you to compete against some slightly slower cars?

Some relevant information about fast FC's might come from E Production racers here, they're NA, but they run widebodies, fancy suspensions and 10" wide slicks (albeit on 15x7's) and are quite fast.
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Old 02-12-08, 04:07 PM   #9
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it Seems i have a better chance in the FI class actually.. since there are less "competitive cars"

if i go N/A i have to compete with C6 Z06's

if I stay FI.. it's mostly Evo's 350z's and maybe a Porsche GT3
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Old 02-12-08, 05:40 PM   #10
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I think , just for fun you should not dump a fortune into the car, Just get a nice rollcage upgrade cooling system and see how it runs on the track for a season.

Then take it from there.


Of course the FC is a great platform to start of from. ( is it the ultimate best, NO ).

But heck if you own one, its your drag car, then add some track wheels and suspension and enjoy the season and next year hit the drawing board for upgrades . or get another chassi if you feel totally outclassed.
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Old 02-13-08, 09:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeepyhead View Post
the suspension isn't THAT bad, porsches and m3s still use mcpherson front suspensions....
I always found that very odd about the higher end Porsches. The BMWs are understandable, since the M3 is just a sporty edition of a mass-produced sedan. I am guessing the use of the McPherson's by Porsche stems from their unwillingness to make any significant changes in the venerable 911 platform. Note that the GT1 (which looked like a 911 chassis, but wasn't) and the Carrera GT both use double A-arms rather than struts.

That's not to say that you can't make the McPherson setup work well, but it is a design compromise. That's the way it is with any production-based racecar: you pick your car and develop it as best you can within your ruleset and within your budget.


-bill
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Old 02-13-08, 01:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by wrankin View Post
I always found that very odd about the higher end Porsches. The BMWs are understandable, since the M3 is just a sporty edition of a mass-produced sedan. I am guessing the use of the McPherson's by Porsche stems from their unwillingness to make any significant changes in the venerable 911 platform. Note that the GT1 (which looked like a 911 chassis, but wasn't) and the Carrera GT both use double A-arms rather than struts.

That's not to say that you can't make the McPherson setup work well, but it is a design compromise. That's the way it is with any production-based racecar: you pick your car and develop it as best you can within your ruleset and within your budget.


-bill
the fc suspension is a lot nicer in a bunch of places than the bmw. bmw doesnt have the toe control links, non adjustable rear suspension etc etc.
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Old 10-22-11, 04:17 PM   #13
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my main gripe with the FC in most of the research I've been doing is that you can't fit as much front tire as I would like.
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Old 12-28-11, 03:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
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and the racing itself is Time attack style.. u drive alone




if a 450hp FC can get 1 min flat on Tsukuba.. then it should be pretty damn competitive no?

1 minute flat with a professional race car driver. Even if you could get close to that ultimate time, it would be much harder to deliver when under pressure. Not to mention that it's not going to be easy to extract 100% out of a car like that.
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Old 12-28-11, 03:58 AM
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