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Body Bag
04-28-12, 04:44 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Body Bag
Here's my DV8 concept car. and a few facts about why its posted here.
1. It is rotary powered (soon)
2. Street Legal (at least in Alabama)
3. The body is solid to 75mph (VW engine speed limited)
4. The body is made of cloth (not fiberglass)
5. It has a tube frame with 3/8 steel framing added for the body tent
6. Yes. wheelies are expected.
7. No, it doesn't flap in the breeze (think convertible top for the whole car)
8. The car body was built in a weekend, the skin took two weeks for pattern development.
9. I call it a concept car because I'm a designer and we get to. (yes it's a rail buggy)
10. What other motor would fit something this unique?
See my website www.bellemachina.com for this and other manner of engineering experiments (toys and designs of all kinds). The car is listed under "DV8"
1. It is rotary powered (soon)
2. Street Legal (at least in Alabama)
3. The body is solid to 75mph (VW engine speed limited)
4. The body is made of cloth (not fiberglass)
5. It has a tube frame with 3/8 steel framing added for the body tent
6. Yes. wheelies are expected.
7. No, it doesn't flap in the breeze (think convertible top for the whole car)
8. The car body was built in a weekend, the skin took two weeks for pattern development.
9. I call it a concept car because I'm a designer and we get to. (yes it's a rail buggy)
10. What other motor would fit something this unique?
See my website www.bellemachina.com for this and other manner of engineering experiments (toys and designs of all kinds). The car is listed under "DV8"
04-28-12, 06:41 PM
#3
Dragons' Breath
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It's not as crazy as you think !!
That is pretty much the way I plan on finishing my drag bike ,( just the cowling and and covers ) with nylon stretched from many points and then sprayed with some type of lacquer or something of that sort to make it rigid, then bolt them on to some kind of brackets that are still not figured out .. You do realize that this will put you down in the basement with the rest of us left of center builders ! . welcome . Gerald m 
Last edited by gerald m; 04-28-12 at 06:47 PM.
04-28-12, 06:51 PM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I don't have a basement or garage. The car was built in my apartment, parking lot, or storage shed. So, it keeps me on a schedule. I do bikes too. Check out the website. If you need help on your fairings, let me know.
04-28-12, 07:22 PM
#5
Dragons' Breath
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I don't have a garage either so I just use half of the main floor of my house it works great and if I come up with an idea in the middle of the night ,a few steps and I'm at the action . lathe , mill ,welders , benders etc. in the kitchen and the building action is in the living room . I'm always open to ideas .. Just because I don't use most of them don't mean I don't ponder and consider all .. Some of the guys on this forum are brilliant when it comes to the rotary engine and have been a huge help .
I won't get into names but it won't take you long to figure out who they are . Gerald
I won't get into names but it won't take you long to figure out who they are . Gerald
04-28-12, 07:40 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Nice to hear of someone with the same sense of home decor as me. Keep it up. It's more fun than cable. Let's hope some experts here can help with this buggy
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05-04-12, 12:32 AM
#11
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go to http://www.fibreglast.com/ and get a good resin and apply it to the cloth body and make it solid.
05-04-12, 03:43 AM
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
No resin
Resin would be cool. But, then it would just be a buggy. The concept is to make the body from from soft material. This allows the fabric skin to be changed like clothes. Right now, I can shuck the body off and back on in less than 30 minutes. Skins can be made from any flexible material and keep the weight down. I like to go really fast. Lightness is the cheapest way to go faster.
Instead of resin, I have plans to cover it in canvas and prime it. Then, have an artist paint the whole car. If I don't like it, strip and replace. If I do, hang it in a museum. This is one of several thousand new ways to play with this car.
Beyond all that, it's "green". No molds for body creation, less metal, and less energy to create. Resin would just add more toxic waste and possible injury. Fiberglass is extremely hard to remove from a wound.
Instead of resin, I have plans to cover it in canvas and prime it. Then, have an artist paint the whole car. If I don't like it, strip and replace. If I do, hang it in a museum. This is one of several thousand new ways to play with this car.
Beyond all that, it's "green". No molds for body creation, less metal, and less energy to create. Resin would just add more toxic waste and possible injury. Fiberglass is extremely hard to remove from a wound.
05-06-12, 10:56 AM
#17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, I saw the Gina concept back when it debuted (2008, i think). I actually had the idea back in 1996, though I didn't execute it until 2010. But, mine has an engine, actually runs, and didnt cost bazillions. Gimme a few weeks to sort out this rotary and I'll race them.
05-06-12, 12:50 PM
#18
cloth won't ever really be a conventional skin for any daily driven automobile, at least probably while i'm still alive.
like a convertible it has it's uses and i like the idea of it being solely used as a "skin" for styling and for that purpose only. being able to change the color of your car in a short while being the appeal, thinking it will protect the frame and cabin from sand, debris, dirt or water won't happen.
like a convertible it has it's uses and i like the idea of it being solely used as a "skin" for styling and for that purpose only. being able to change the color of your car in a short while being the appeal, thinking it will protect the frame and cabin from sand, debris, dirt or water won't happen.
05-06-12, 02:45 PM
#19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
You've tried this? I have. Weather, dirt, and light debris are deflected without dents. I havent had anything too big thrown from the road yet. But, that hasnt happened to me but once in 25 yrs of my driving. The windshield didnt fair too well that time. They make bulletproof vests, right?
It may not be a viable alternative, but not for those reasons. I can prove it.
That being said, snow sticks to the material like dried booger. New solutions breed new problems.
You been to China or India? They have a much wider array of viable transportation, lower expectations, and a growing population that wants to drive. This might be their choice, if not yours. The design's farm tractor simplicity would limit its U.S. appeal far beyond its cloth body. This thing needs doors, side glass, and even a roof.
The cloth body lowers production costs and energy consumption more than any metal hybrid. This is my better, faster alternative to a Prius.
It may not be a viable alternative, but not for those reasons. I can prove it.
That being said, snow sticks to the material like dried booger. New solutions breed new problems.
You been to China or India? They have a much wider array of viable transportation, lower expectations, and a growing population that wants to drive. This might be their choice, if not yours. The design's farm tractor simplicity would limit its U.S. appeal far beyond its cloth body. This thing needs doors, side glass, and even a roof.
The cloth body lowers production costs and energy consumption more than any metal hybrid. This is my better, faster alternative to a Prius.
05-06-12, 05:47 PM
#20
you can try, i have to replace my cloth convertible top every few years and even for a smaller piece of fabric it is still expensive. even if i treat it it still can't hold the weather out, it buffets in the wind and pops your ears from quick decompression/compression and i doubt it is great for fuel economy either with the drag it creates. there's many reasons why most people wouldn't want a cloth exterior on any practical car, you can try to convince yourself otherwise but as you can see, no automotive manufacturer has attempted it because market tests have proven to them it won't work at this moment in time still.
you can only pull most any affordable cloth so tight and then it tears easily. we can talk about kevlar all we want but who is going to pay $5k for each induvidual shell? i'm sure there's other materials but how cost effective are they and is the car comfortable with a fully enclosed fabric shell? it gets damn noisey in my E36 vert and that is considered a luxury car.
just take criticism with a grain of salt. i like this idea for your application but don't hold your breath on selling it to automotive manufacturers, i'm sure they have all already been through this song and dance and opted away from it a long time ago. BMW only made that one example because it was niche and they wanted to build something fun but i bet driving it wasn't nearly like driving any of their other cars, even if it was lighter.
if it rips you have to repair it immediately, unlike metal/plastic body panels which you just keep on heading to your destination when you get a ding or scratch. not many people are going to break out a repair kit and patch the car on the side of the road nor would many people want to, because it's just a mode of transportation to the majority of drivers.
you can only pull most any affordable cloth so tight and then it tears easily. we can talk about kevlar all we want but who is going to pay $5k for each induvidual shell? i'm sure there's other materials but how cost effective are they and is the car comfortable with a fully enclosed fabric shell? it gets damn noisey in my E36 vert and that is considered a luxury car.
just take criticism with a grain of salt. i like this idea for your application but don't hold your breath on selling it to automotive manufacturers, i'm sure they have all already been through this song and dance and opted away from it a long time ago. BMW only made that one example because it was niche and they wanted to build something fun but i bet driving it wasn't nearly like driving any of their other cars, even if it was lighter.
if it rips you have to repair it immediately, unlike metal/plastic body panels which you just keep on heading to your destination when you get a ding or scratch. not many people are going to break out a repair kit and patch the car on the side of the road nor would many people want to, because it's just a mode of transportation to the majority of drivers.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-06-12 at 05:58 PM.
05-06-12, 06:04 PM
#21
Dragons' Breath
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One huge draw back of a cloth type cover is when it gets wet air will not go over it without a great deal of friction . ( if you have ever flown a hanglider in the rain you will know what I mean they go from a beautiful flying machine to a overstuffed stork in 10 seconds ). just sayin that's all
05-07-12, 04:58 AM
#22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I build concept cars to test those very ideas. Here's what I've found...
1. Convertible tops flap due to the direction of the bows. Convertible, fabric roofs have bows that are perpendicular to the direction of the wind. My bows run parallel to the wind and the flap is almost non-existent.
2. A fabric skin will not fly up over the windshield like a prom dress. This was a genuine fear of mine that disappeared the first time I drove it.
3. Convertible tops are a pain. I've replaced them too. You can change the skin on this car in less than 20 minutes with only a screwdriver.
4. Repairs can be made with needle and thread on the road side. Bondo and paint require more money and controlled environments, even trained people.
5. Yeah, aerodynamics are very important to the market (ha!). That's why half the cars sold in this country are giant square SUV's.
6. Most giant auto manufacturers wouldn't be interested in this idea. They have a vested interest in not changing their processes and expertise. That is why we have to bail them out. This does not make them correct.
7. Fire is a new threat. Steel doesnt burn as easy as cloth.
8. I kinda wanna crash test it
9. I built this for less than 5k. That's cheaper than a motorcycle. That makes it a financially viable alternative to the consumer, not the manufacturer. Business changes radically when that happens.
10. Finally, ask a woman if she would like to have a car that changes clothes to match her purse. Women are half the market for any consumer good in this country, including cars. Selling choices to women can be a very profitable business.
Keep the comments coming. Im a designer, we have to defend these insane ideas all the time.
1. Convertible tops flap due to the direction of the bows. Convertible, fabric roofs have bows that are perpendicular to the direction of the wind. My bows run parallel to the wind and the flap is almost non-existent.
2. A fabric skin will not fly up over the windshield like a prom dress. This was a genuine fear of mine that disappeared the first time I drove it.
3. Convertible tops are a pain. I've replaced them too. You can change the skin on this car in less than 20 minutes with only a screwdriver.
4. Repairs can be made with needle and thread on the road side. Bondo and paint require more money and controlled environments, even trained people.
5. Yeah, aerodynamics are very important to the market (ha!). That's why half the cars sold in this country are giant square SUV's.
6. Most giant auto manufacturers wouldn't be interested in this idea. They have a vested interest in not changing their processes and expertise. That is why we have to bail them out. This does not make them correct.
7. Fire is a new threat. Steel doesnt burn as easy as cloth.
8. I kinda wanna crash test it
9. I built this for less than 5k. That's cheaper than a motorcycle. That makes it a financially viable alternative to the consumer, not the manufacturer. Business changes radically when that happens.
10. Finally, ask a woman if she would like to have a car that changes clothes to match her purse. Women are half the market for any consumer good in this country, including cars. Selling choices to women can be a very profitable business.
Keep the comments coming. Im a designer, we have to defend these insane ideas all the time.
05-07-12, 05:01 AM
#23
Junior Member
Thread Starter
One huge draw back of a cloth type cover is when it gets wet air will not go over it without a great deal of friction . ( if you have ever flown a hanglider in the rain you will know what I mean they go from a beautiful flying machine to a overstuffed stork in 10 seconds ). just sayin that's all
05-07-12, 08:07 AM
#24
Dragons' Breath
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Gerald m
Last edited by gerald m; 05-07-12 at 08:10 AM.
05-07-12, 12:05 PM
#25
Like the fabric idea for the application. I had done footbox sides on a rail I had to keep some of the mud out of my face. Used canvas at first, later went to fiberglass nose.
If you haven't driven it with the rotary be prepared for it to launch the front wheels at will. Mine was powered by a VW GTI engine and I had to put in a turn brake to be able to control the damn thing. The rotary will love the final drive the VW box has, IIRC a 4.56? Be sure you have a Rino side cover or whatever they are calling them now. For version 2.0 you should flip the driveline around and make it mid engine, easy as flipping the diff over in the transaxle.
If you haven't driven it with the rotary be prepared for it to launch the front wheels at will. Mine was powered by a VW GTI engine and I had to put in a turn brake to be able to control the damn thing. The rotary will love the final drive the VW box has, IIRC a 4.56? Be sure you have a Rino side cover or whatever they are calling them now. For version 2.0 you should flip the driveline around and make it mid engine, easy as flipping the diff over in the transaxle.